FFDL [draft starts this Saturday!]

[theman]

I would like to say that if the Oden decision goes the way I'd hope, it is unfortunate that TheMan would get screwed again, since it seems like he's the only one who never gets a decision made in his favor (although I would like to note I did side with him on the Gallinari-Griffin issue).

You are a good man.

I do think a decision needs to be made before games are played tonight.

[writersblock]

Streaming is the over-use of adding and dropping just to pad your scores.

You would know.

I do? Man...if I did, I should be winning this league, right TheMAN?!!

[hamncheese]

I made an honest mistake with Dunleavy earlier this season and he got returned to me. Coady should get Oden back.

[bww78]

There is only one way to deal with issues like these. We need to enforce a zero tolerance policy, and be explicit in what the rules are and what the consequences to breaking those rules will be.

Otherwise, we'll just keep going round and around on these types of issues, and inevitably, someone gets screwed.

[bww78]

I would like to say that if the Oden decision goes the way I'd hope, it is unfortunate that TheMan would get screwed again, since it seems like he's the only one who never gets a decision made in his favor (although I would like to note I did side with him on the Gallinari-Griffin issue).

Those were two separate and unrelated issues.

[theman]

There is only one way to deal with issues like these. We need to enforce a zero tolerance policy, and be explicit in what the rules are and what the consequences to breaking those rules will be.

Otherwise, we'll just keep going round and around on these types of issues, and inevitably, someone gets screwed.

[Stanford]

What happened to the max games limit on yahoo?

Max games is for roto. Max moves is h2h.

Typo. it was there for a day.

[sly]

There is only one way to deal with issues like these. We need to enforce a zero tolerance policy, and be explicit in what the rules are and what the consequences to breaking those rules will be.

Otherwise, we'll just keep going round and around on these types of issues, and inevitably, someone gets screwed.

I can't see a zero-tolerance system and a self-directed IL. You either have one or the other if you're looking for fairness.

[bww78]

I don't understand why. It's not a big issue to check the game log for any particular player and see whether he's missed 5 straight games. It takes about 3 minutes, maybe less. We each should be expected to double check this before we drop a player to the IL.

The one fair way, the only fair way, to police the system, is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards. You can come up with whatever standards you want, but then you have to draw the line in the sand and create consequences for those that step over the line.

Here, the line is drawn at 5 straight missed games. Everyone knows the rule, and we've been talking about it for weeks. Coady, of all people, as an active participant in the discussion, should have known better. Now, or course, it's unfair to punish Coady for something Jordan just got away with a few weeks ago. But there's the problem, now we've set a precedent for everyone to get a freeby, as AlciG stated a couple of pages back.

[theman]

I can't see a zero-tolerance system and a self-directed IL. You either have one or the other if you're looking for fairness.

Why. Someone "makes a mistake" and drops early that player is fair game. If I could have kept Griffin the precedent would have been set that if you drop early you get the player back and get to keep the player you picked up. I have a filling if someone other than the commissioner had dropped early, especially someone he does not like (Coady, Carl, WB, BDoub) the ruling may have come down differently.

I don't understand why. It's not a big issue to check the game log for any particular player and see whether he's missed 5 straight games. It takes about 3 minutes, maybe less. We each should be expected to double check this before we drop a player to the IL.

The one fair way, the only fair way, to police the system, is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards. You can come up with whatever standards you want, but then you have to draw the line in the sand and create consequences for those that step over the line.

Here, the line is drawn at 5 straight missed games. Everyone knows the rule, and we've been talking about it for weeks. Coady, of all people, as an active participant in the discussion, should have known better. Now, or course, it's unfair to punish Coady for something Jordan just got away with a few weeks ago. But there's the problem, now we've set a precedent for everyone to get a freeby, as AlciG stated a couple of pages back.

Sad but true.

However, as I said, if someone was going to get him it might has well have been me.

It is too bad this was not settled last night.

[CFan21]

Those were two separate and unrelated issues.

Ahh, but were they? Let's go back and look at the exchange:

Other Commish adds/drops:

insfo - adds T-Mac, drops Jordan
ham - adds Brand and Dunleavy, drops Barea and Bonner
Kohanz - adds Al-Jeff, drops Fred Jones
east - adds Chandler, drops Warrick
theman - adds Redd, drops Webster and Gallo (from the IL)

When exactly did I do this?

When was cut down day? I though it was closer to the draft.

You didn't. It was done for you because you missed the deadline.

Since I never got so much as an email, I would prefer to drop Alston and keep Galinari.

TheMan made a mistake and missed the deadline to cut down rosters. Fantasy offseasons are generally so inactive and given his historical competitiveness I calling that "a mistake" is reasonable. He asked politely to make the drop he'd intended, which is akin to what happened with everybody in the IL situations. There wasn't any new information out there that he'd have benefited from to give him an advantage in picking who to drop, and Alston's situation actually seemed to improve over the offseason. This was also before the draft so it wasn't like he was trying to pull this on everyone last minute. Basically, it was of no consequence to anyone if he got Gallinari back and you guys all shut him down harshly. He was actually asking to downgrade his roster (YS was supposed to drop the two least valuable players from the roster, implying Alston was better than Gallo) and still got shut down when he asked for some leniency.

However, when YS needed to ask for leniency there wasn't so much of a problem. The only options are that YS doesn't like TheMan or he just really, really didn't want to give up Blake Griffin. That set the precedent for giving leniency on the 5 games issue, which we've followed since then (and should now). But, it still doesn't make sense that TheMan's mistake was so much more offensive that he gets punished for it while everyone else gets a second chance.

I think that we should all listen to the wise sage sly on this one and establish that we won't punish mistakes only intentional rule breaking. sly's the one who set the tone of the league in the early days and I've always respected his opinion a lot so I think we should listen to him here.

With that said, I don't think I'll ever feel completely comfortable about the league again until TheMan gets Gallinari back. Otherwise, he's getting **** over.

[Young_Star11]

Sorry for the inactivity guys.

I feel as though I have got everyone into a bind after what happened with Griffin.

Reversing league decisions after the event is a very sticky situation, one that is hard to do.

[AlciG]

Sorry for the inactivity guys.

I feel as though I have got everyone into a bind after what happened with Griffin.

Reversing league decisions after the event is a very sticky situation, one that is hard to do.

We need a decision on the Oden situation, so theMan can get his team sorted out asap. And in case the decision goes against him he needs his waiver priority 2 back.

[Stanford]

exactly

[sly]

Zero tolerance rules suck. They're insulting to me. They're directed only for people who choose winning and team success over anything else.

I'd rather have a relaxed league full of decent people instead of a league ruled with absolutes. Personally, I wouldn't want my team to benefit from a manager accidentally accepting a trade, or from misreading boxscores.

If we can't trust each other's moves or intentions, personally, I'd move the IL back to commissioner-run... putting the honus on the commissioner, and allowing the league majority to decide any issues that arise.

I don't understand why. It's not a big issue to check the game log for any particular player and see whether he's missed 5 straight games. It takes about 3 minutes, maybe less. We each should be expected to double check this before we drop a player to the IL.

The one fair way, the only fair way, to police the system, is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards. You can come up with whatever standards you want, but then you have to draw the line in the sand and create consequences for those that step over the line.

Here, the line is drawn at 5 straight missed games. Everyone knows the rule, and we've been talking about it for weeks. Coady, of all people, as an active participant in the discussion, should have known better. Now, or course, it's unfair to punish Coady for something Jordan just got away with a few weeks ago. But there's the problem, now we've set a precedent for everyone to get a freeby, as AlciG stated a couple of pages back.

[theman]

Send me an email when you need me.

Check in occasionally.

Activity is a bit of a problem with this league, and I can't be lenient.

I don't want to be a dick. And I was saying the precedent shows that stanford is entitled to Oden. However, finding the above quote, and considering no leniency with the lose of Gallinari I am going to stick with my claim to Oden.

Granted YS drop of Griffin was early by and a couple hours where Standford's was by multiple DAYS. Stanford has now gotten the benefit of extra games played and I don't think the commissioner has the power to reverse that.

Activity doesn't just mean streaming and posting arrogant comments.

[theman]

Zero tolerance rules suck. They're insulting to me. They're directed only for people who choose winning and team success over anything else.

Where was the tolerance for me?

When I lost Gallinari it sent a message to me that this was a zero tolerance league. I had Gallinari on my roster all season last year. I had two other hurt players DURING THE PLAYOFFS who I could have moved to the IL and streamed for and finished higher in the playoffs. I didn't do that because I knew Gallinari would provide what my team needed (three point shooting) and didn't want to loose him. In the end I lost in the playoff and I lost the player.

Since Stanford thinks I didn't deserve leniency I don't think he deserves any either.

If going forward we want to be lenient that is fine. But leniency should be given year round.

[theman]

Is there a way, instead of pointing in a move limit instead saying a player must remain on a roster for a certain number of games before being dropped?

I have a hunch that Mo Evans (whoever that is) will be back on the waiver wire by Tuesday.

I hate streamers. I find it childish and annoying.

Can I call them or what?

[CFan21]

I'd also like to note that in the Gallinari debacle, along with YS, Stanford was probably the biggest supporter of the no-tolerance train of thought. I could go back and get quotes if you like?

[CFan21]

Can I call them or what?

I likewise would like to call out WB.

Dec 12 9:08am Maurice Evans (Atl - SG,SF) Add Free Agents ReturnOfTheMatadors
Dec 14 10:51pm Maurice Evans (Atl - SG,SF) Drop ReturnOfTheMatadors Waivers


By the way, his add/drops in our H2H match up:

Dec 12 9:08am Maurice Evans (Atl - SG,SF) Add
Dec 12 9:08am C.J. Miles (Uta - SG,SF) Drop
Dec 11 8:40am C.J. Miles (Uta - SG,SF) Add
Dec 11 8:40am Marcus Thornton (NO - PG,SG) Drop
Dec 11 8:35am Luke Ridnour (Mil - PG) Add
Dec 11 8:35am DeJuan Blair (SA - SF,PF) Drop
Dec 10 9:21am DeJuan Blair (SA - SF,PF) Add
Dec 10 9:21am Vladimir Radmanovic (GS - SF,PF) Drop
Dec 9 11:16pm Marcus Thornton (NO - PG,SG) Add
Dec 9 11:16pm C.J. Miles (Uta - SG,SF) Drop
Dec 9 9:18pm C.J. Miles (Uta - SG,SF) Add
Dec 9 9:18pm Luke Ridnour (Mil - PG) Drop
Dec 9 9:08pm Tyler Hansbrough (Ind - SF,PF) Add
Dec 9 9:08pm Steve Blake (Por - PG,SG) Drop
Dec 7 11:37pm Steve Blake (Por - PG,SG) Add
Dec 7 11:37pm DeJuan Blair (SA - SF,PF) Drop

That doesn't look the least bit strategic to anyone? It look completely like his intention was to find the best players to add to his roster?

I'm within my suggestion of five moves a week buddy and includes dropping Hinrich to the IL, then having him come back sooner than expected. You have made 8 moves so far this week, with no outside incentive (i.e. an IL player) and only one of them was an oh-whoops-decided-I-want-the-other-guy move. Your last move you dropped 22-year-old CJ Miles with better production for 31-year-old journeyman role player Mo Evans, who happens to play Sunday. That wasn't streaming?

]No, not really. If I liked CJ Miles enough, I would have just kept him, but I think that Miles is an inconsistent player, and I just noticed today that Mo Evans has started to go on a tear. I've been waiting for him to do that all year. He should have been getting this kind of run all year, taking the place of Flip's minutes.

I will say that the Mo-stream was clever because it looks like another blowout tonight against New Jersey and more minutes for him. All I can hope for is that you've managed to talk yourself into having to hold on to Mo and accepting his future 14 mpg (did I mention that he's never averaged 10 points a season and has no upside!) or else you prove to everyone that you're a fraud. Either way I win really, but anyways, back to the vote on streaming.

The apparent "Mo-stream" might have been clever, if it would help me. There's no way I'm going to catch you in the stats Mo offers up (points, 3s). It's like I said, he's a place holder.

Could you explain what a place holder is again and what the difference between "place-holding" and streaming is?

Also, Jordan, how much more league support do we need to get to stop (WB's) streaming and put in a 5 moves a week limit or something like that? It seemed like support was next to unanimous, just that we didn't decide on specifics (weekly vs. season limit, what number). Please let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done and I'll get on it.