MN, UTH, and WSH...

[Danimals]

First off, I know most trade ideas are unrealistic. I just like to throw them out there for discussion.

This would be a deadline deal, when both UTH and WSH feel they need to make something happen. WSH realizes it can't compete with its current roster and needs to start moving contracts. UTH realizes it has the best point guard in the league, and if they could just pair him with another young all-star in FA, well...

MN: OUT- Sessions, Gomes, Pekovic, UTH 1st, Blount, Cardinal, Wilkins
IN- Kirilenko, Butler, McGee, Stevenson, NYK 1st

UTH: OUT- Kirilenko, NYK 1st
IN- Gomes, Cardinal, James, UTH 1st

WSH: OUT- Butler, Mcgee, James, Stevenson
IN- Sessions, Wilkins, Blount, Pekovic

Why:

MN- We decide to wait until 2011 FA. By taking on Kirilenko and Butler's contracts we upgrade the UTH pick to NYK's, and we trade Pekovic(who is redundant with AL?) for McGee. AK-47 and Butler give us great veteran talent that helps us learn how to win next year and get a taste of the playoffs. We still pick the 2 BPA's in the draft. We are major players in 2011. Our next move is to trade some combination of Hart, Pavlovic, Jawai, and Pecherov for a PG on a 1 or 2 year deal who can shoot the 3.
Flynn/?
Brewer/Ellington/Stevenson
Butler/AK-47
Love/Hollins
Jefferson/McGee

UTH- Gomes and Kirilenko have nearly identical production this year. Gomes is insanely cheaper. The price they pay for the swap and subsequent boat-loads of cap-space, is swapping that NYK 1st with their own that we have. Their record this year would remain virtually unchanged. In the summer, instead of picking an unproven youngin', they sign a known commodity.

WSH- Let's be realistic. They have a lot of talent, but it doesn't fit. They need to blow this thing up while their players have some value. In this deal they get a great back-up to play behind Arenas and protect them from his injuries for the next several years. They might even be able to play together some. They get Pekovic who could come in and give them the kind of physical force they need down low if they ever expect to compete in the playoffs. They move a ton of 2011 salary, and remember no one wants Stevenson's contract. I would think they also move Jamison for more cap relief/assets and go into full rebuild.

Have I created any kind of fair value here? I think WSH might need something more. Maybe Hollins? Maybe Pekovic and McGee would need to be taken out all together?

[revprodeji]

I have no issue using the cap space for a top-5 pick. The NY pick makes this deal worth it.

I think we are denying the value of Butler. I do not think he has negative value.

We could keep it simple with utah.

AK47+NY pick

for

Cardinal+Blount + Utah pick.

We trade the cap space for an upgrade in pick. Next year we use the contract to exp or in a trade.

We also still have enough cap space to offer this little gem.

Rudy Gay+Marco Jaric

for

Gomes+Wilkins+Sasha+Stewie.

Memphis uses the asset of Gay to get rid of the contract of Jaric. We give them exp and cheap production (Gomes).

[John Doe [MIN]]

I like it your way or rev's. Nice ideas.

[TDWOLVESFAN]

We could keep it simple with utah.
AK47+NY pick
for
Cardinal+Blount + Utah pick.

We trade the cap space for an upgrade in pick. Next year we use the contract to exp or in a trade.

We also still have enough cap space to offer this little gem.
Rudy Gay+Marco Jaric
for
Gomes+Wilkins+Sasha+Stewie.
Memphis uses the asset of Gay to get rid of the contract of Jaric. We give them exp and cheap production (Gomes).

Assuming we buyout Jaric, I like this set of trades better than the MN/UT/WA. We get a better 1st Rd pick and keep Sessions (he is looking more and more comfortable running this offense). I do like Gomes and Wilkins is starting to grow on me but AK might give a better interior defensive look. I'm not sure how I feel about Gay - he could learn to play some better D.

[Esohny]

I'd be pretty happy with that. With Gay, AK-47, and our choice of SGs in the draft, our wing play improves exponentially. Even with no other moves, the team would make a huge jump and give up next year's 1st rounder, and have more than 20 million in expirings to make another big move next season.

It increases our choices in the draft as well. I assume the knicks pick will be worse than ours, but still around 10 at highest. We'd probably be able to package that and the charlotte pick for a top 5 if we felt the need as well.

If we actually got the #2, we could presumably trot out

Flynn/Sessions/Jaric
Turner(or Xavier Henry, or Wes Johnson)/Ellington/Brewer
Gay/AK-47
Love/Favors
Jefferson/Pekovic?/Hollins

[shrink]

If UTA demanded more, a package of Blount + Gomes + Sasha would be nice for them, including a $3.4 mil TPE that they could double this year, and a player on a cheap deal with the cap space for 2010-11.

[I Am Awesome-O]

Rudy Gay+Marco Jaric

for

Gomes+Wilkins+Sasha+Stewie.

Memphis uses the asset of Gay to get rid of the contract of Jaric. We give them exp and cheap production (Gomes).

Memphis isn't using Gay to get out of Jaric's contract. He's been playing the best ball of his career and Heisley and Co. plan on keeping him in Memphis long-term and matching any offer he gets this summer.

[Danimals]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I thought about breaking this down into two seperate trades. I think that could work. I also think it would take more to get Butler. Maybe we take McGee and Pelovic out, but give them CHA pick?

If we did a deal like this, I wouldn't want to go after Gay. The plan would be to vastly improve next year and make the playoffs. Thus giving our youngsters greatly needed experience and increasing our chances of luring a big time free agent in 2011, namely Camelo Anthony. I admit he is my absolutely favorite young player. I think his game is built for championship basketball and it will age beautifully.

I would want to draft one wing and one big this year to develop next year, while we win with a couple proven vets. Then we bring in Melo and Rubio... Wow someone help me get back to reality.

Shrink, your the proven numbers guy. Anyway we could make these trades in the off season using raw cap space instead of expirings? That way we would have a better idea on the value of these picks.

Back to my dream...

Your 2011 Timberwolves!

Rubio/Flynn/?
Johnson/Ellington/?
Melo/AK-47/Johnson
Love/Favors/AK-47
Jefferson/McGee/Hollins

[Danimals]

Ok, I broke this down into two trades. Here goes...

Trade 1 with Washington:
MN: OUT- Sessions, Gomes, Cardinal, Jawai, CHA 1st
IN- Butler, Stevenson, Crittenton, Oberto, WSH 1st

Trade 2 with Utah:
MN: OUT- Blount, Wilkins, Pecherov, Pavlovic, Hart, UTH 1st
IN:- Kirilenko, Price, Fesenko, NYK 1st

I think one of these teams probably need Pekovic's rights as well, I'm not sure. I think this saves both Utah and Washington money this year and next.

What do you guys think?

[Neon Black]

Utah is not going to be a major player in the free agent market.

We'd rather keep our Lottery pick or include it in a trade that actually returns talent than hoping Bosh or Wade get converted to the Mormon church and decide to come live out their days in Utah.

This just would never fly.

and Brian Cardinal? Really?

[shrink]

This is the mindset of people who have maxed out their credit card, and inherit $10,000. Instead of paying down their debt, they look for other ways to spend it.

There's a reason UTA has never gone over the lux before. While they have rabid fans, they are still a very small market. Circumstances arose that forced them well into the lux, when Boozer took his player option, and they wished to remain on the same plan with the Okur and Milsap. However, its time to get real. UTA can't just live over the lux iindefinitely. There is no way they can afford a Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade on a max, longterm contract.

I expect Boozer to be traded for an expiring and a pick, and UTA to swallow Kirilenko's badly overpriced deal for an additional year. If their best deal for Boozer includes bringing back some talent in a future salary (non-expiring), then I think they will do what they need to to get rid of Kirilenko.

[revprodeji]

Rudy Gay+Marco Jaric

for

Gomes+Wilkins+Sasha+Stewie.

Memphis uses the asset of Gay to get rid of the contract of Jaric. We give them exp and cheap production (Gomes).

Memphis isn't using Gay to get out of Jaric's contract. He's been playing the best ball of his career and Heisley and Co. plan on keeping him in Memphis long-term and matching any offer he gets this summer.

No way to know that for certain. It would be a way to use the asset of Gay without losing him for nothing. We know MN has talked about Gay a lot and a dec/jan trade would make the signing easier for MN and get rid of jaric's nasty contract.

[Danimals]

Shrink, I want your help.

I have a limited understanding of NBA finances, but I want to learn more. That is partially why I like playing around with trade ideas. I use the RealGM trade checker and shamsports to help me.

So regarding this trade idea:
MN: OUT- Blount, Wilkins, Pecherov, Pavlovic, Hart, UTH 1st
IN:- Kirilenko, Price, Fesenko, NYK 1st

Does this not save Utah a ton of money both this year and next? Could you show me exactly what the numbers word out to be? Would they not be able to save even more by cutting Hart and buying one or two more guys out?

You said they could not afford to sign a max FA. OK, would they like the rights to Pekovic and try to bring him over for MLE type money? Or with cap room next year could they go after cheaper, more value-based singings? Would they then be able to build a win now team and avoid the lux?

Even though I'm a Wolves fan, I can't stand watching D. WIlliams surrounded by such a lack of talent beyond that douche-bag Boozer. Williams is the best point guard in the league and I want to watch him succeed. I just thought rolling the dice in the lottery might not be the best way to make that happen. I could be wrong.

Thanks for any help anyone gives me.

[shrink]

How ironic. I just came from the trade board, where I defended someone for a similar trade.

This thread might amuse you, particularly rpa's inability to distinguish between a good contract and a bad contract.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=968623&start=15

[Esohny]

Just read that thread. Loved his bogus argument.