Tyrus Thomas, anyone?

[elrod enchilada]

Tyrus Thomas is a RFA this summer and is an $8 million hold on the Bulls salary cap. If the Bulls want to make a play for a max contract free agent they will have to renounce him, or trade him before the deadline for expiring deals and draft picks. (The Bulls could create space by dealing Salmons or Hinrich for expirings, but that would be much more difficult to pull off.) The Bulls want to make a play for Wade, a hometown kid who has a place in Chicago he just bought, or possibly Bosh. They need to get someone like that or they likely will remain on the mediocrity treadmill for a while.

The Cs could offer Scal, Shelden Williams, $3 million cash, a 2011 no. 1 pick for Thomas, and two no. 2 picks down the road. (2011 is preferable for the Bulls, because it would not count against their salary total in summer 2010, and every penny counts.) Would the Bulls do it? Not if they could get a better deal, obviously, and they may well be able to do so. At the same time, as you go down the list of potential suitors, I am not certain they could get a better deal. Thomas is a wondrous talent, but at 6-8 and slender he is small for a 4 and has no post offense. His basketball IQ is unclear. He is the sort of guy a team does not want to sign to a four or five year deal starting at $9 million per, because it could blow up in your face like a trick cigar. He is almost certainly never going to be an all-star. Most of the teams with lots of expiring deals are like the Knicks and Heat-- they are trying to clear capspace themselves, not trade the contracts for longer term obligations.

Part of the hesitation teams have with Thomas is his 'tude. He was the guy who in his rookie year at first refused to be in the all-star weekend slam dunk contest unless he got paid to do it.

In years past guys like Thomas would have simply been given fat deals and teams would cross their fingers. In the new NBA economy, I think there is less enthusiasm for this sort of risk.

So why would the Cs do it? Very simply: young jackrabbit legs, and a solid ability to rebound. He oozes Josh Smithian athletic ability. He could be a dream wide receiver on the break for quarterback Rondo. Also a plus defender who could even get better in a great system. He can defend many 3s as well as 4s, which would mean you could have him and Baby on the floor at the same time at the forwards. He can be a very good role player. He just turned 23, so he is very young.

When the Cs look beatable is when they look old and slow. Thomas on the floor with Rondo changes that equation.

Also, he is best friends with Big Baby. The Cs might provide an environment where he can get his act together.

Just a deranged thought during this interminable period waiting for the next Cs game.

[MaxwellSmart]

yes, yes and YES....would be a perfect fit to match up with the Hawks...something tells me we're gonna need someone like this....Shelden or Scal don't cut it.

[bendyone]

he's not my type.......

[Jammer]

You're off your rocker, elrod.

The Celtics could go around the League with a First Round Pick, 2 Second Rounders,
$3 Million Cash, and Sheldon Williams and do much better than Tyrus Thomas.

The Celtics two greatest needs are a wing player, preferably able to spell Pierce, who can spread the floor and make shots, a la Mike Miller or

a backup PG that can handle playoff double teams and Make Shots.

Thomas satisfies neither.

You're wasting assets.

[SonicYouth34]

Alot of the reasons the Bulls don' want him (eg. low IQ, bad attiatude, ect) are the reasons the C's don't want him

[hairybyrd]

The Celtics could go around the League with a First Round Pick, 2 Second Rounders,
$3 Million Cash, and Sheldon Williams and do much better than Tyrus Thomas.

Jammer, define "much better". That would be a great trade for Boston. Not so much for Chicago.

[GuyClinch]

Do you really think Danny wants a lazy low BBIQ player like Ty Thomas? We are supposed to give a 1st and 2nd for him? If anything we make a play for Camby if we are going all out..not some wannabe.

[Hawaii]

I don't think he'd be a good fit with the Celtics.

[threrf23]

He'd be a great defensive asset. When needed he could guard the SF position (am I wrong?), and either PP could handle the PF, or KG could play SF on the offensive end. Anything we got from him on the offensive end - which on occasion could be something nice, would be extra.

[cloverleaf]

Not for three picks.

[Jammer]

The Celtics could go around the League with a First Round Pick, 2 Second Rounders,
$3 Million Cash, and Sheldon Williams and do much better than Tyrus Thomas.

Jammer, define "much better". That would be a great trade for Boston. Not so much for Chicago.

$3 Million cash is the going rate for a late first round pick, number 25 to 28.

Alternatively, Danny could trade up from #30 to #21 or so by adding $3 Million this spring.

Adding in two second rounders and Danny moves from #21 to #17.

Adding in Sheldon Williams and he moves from #17 to #13 to #15.

Armed with a #13 pick to #15 pick Danny could get a player like Ty Lawson to back up Rondo.

[Jammer]

There was an interesting study of draft picks from 1989 thru 2008 on,
I think, 82games.com

Basically, by evaluating 20 years worth of picks, the author,
surprisingly, determined that in terms of extracting players,
the ranking was:

1
2-5
6-10
11-14
15-24
25-30
31-34
35-49
50-57
58-60 (practically worth less, by the way)

So the author basically concluded that over 20 years,
a #2 pick was just as likely as a #5 pick to produce the same type of results,
a #17 was just as likely as a #23,
a #38 was just as likely as a #43,
etc.

Sort of makes you wonder just how good the GM's and scouts are.

Kind of surprising. And there was big drop in performance after #34.

I found it very interesting.

[elrod enchilada]

Thanks, Jammer, for your spirited response. I intentionally put forth the biggest possible package on the Cs side so it would not be a lowball bogus prospective trade. If Danny has an interest in Thomas, he might strike a better deal, depending upon the market. It just takes one team to be in love with Thomas to blow up the Cs chances.

The real issue is not exactly the price we would have to pay, but whether we should even pursue Thomas. I am of two minds, and certainly understand the red flags and concerns. I guess I am most inclined to be OK with it because we are not committing to a long-term deal. If the guy comes in and clearly isn't working, we let him go as a free agent or trade him in 2010. At worst we have him one more year. For scrap metal and a low no. 1 pick that does not seem too high a price to pay.

The upside intrigues me. Thomas will never have the offensive game to be an all-star. He is a jump shooter, a tip-in garbageman, and a finisher on the break. Otherwise he could not create a shot to save his life as far as I can tell, and he is not much of a passer. That said, his talents make him a prospective 15 ppg guy at starters minutes, which is hardly chopped liver. But he is a plus defender, a shot blocker extraordinaire, a plus rebounder, and a jumping jack sprinter. I think that is something this team could use, and at times use badly.

And he is only 23. People do grow up. Two years ago Chicago was trying to run Noah out of town on the rails. Now he is a cornerstone for their future. Maybe the veterans can bring TT along like they have the kids on our roster. If he does pan out, the Cs have scored a major talent and building block for the next decade.

The attitude question is the wild card. I have no idea what he is made of. This deal only works if Chicago doesn't want to put down $40 million to find out what is behind the curtain.

[Celts17Pride]

he's not my type.......

Ditto!

[DelMonte West]

If we're targeting players from his draft class, I'd be much more interested in Randy Foye. Thomas has done nothing to convince me he's a starter on a mediocre team, let alone the franchise/all-star level talent he was hyped up to be.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I'm not too sure that adding him to Davis would really help in his development. I actually think it would work the other way around, with Tyrus slowing down Davis' development.

However, having Rondo throw alley-oops to this kid on the break is also intriguing.

I wouldn't mind having the kid on the team providing the price was low enough. However, methinks that the value I'd place on him would be easily outbid by other teams.

[GreenDreamer]

I did a trade check on ESPN and a trade of Scal, Eddie, Tony, Marquis and Giddens would bring in Thomas and Hinrich.

I think that this would be a great deal for us if we could pull it off, because as good as Eddie is for us in the regular season, his post season value is spotty at best. He can't play the point, and he is a midget two guard who is only good alongside Rondo when playing there, and against a team like the Hawks, Lakers and even the Magic you really can't play him there. If we brought in Thomas that would mean that Marquis really wouldn't have a place here with us, because Thomas would have to play the three for us a lot of the time, and yet you could have him out there with marquis because that would completely destroy our spacing on the offensive end.

To me Hinrich is a near perfect fit for this team. It is a classic "buy low" in his case. He is struggling FOR NOW on a terrible team with a garbage system. Put him here? Then you got a guy who can back up Rondo at the point and Ray at the two at a high level, and someone who was the Bulls best defender against Rondo, Ray and Paul in lastyears playoffs. That is really saying something ifyou ask me. Last season they would have laughed at any tradfe package that we offered for him that didn't include one of our core guys. Now we can grab him for a song AND get Thomas too. Hinrich is a very smart and capable player. He's tough too. His mindset would blend in perfectly with what we have here. I also like that his contract goes down over the next two seasons.

The guy who make Thomas work for us is Rondo. Rajon could really push that guys buttons on the offensive end. Bring the best out of him, as he does with so many other players. Ideally I would want a 3/4 guy to be a good three point shooter, but we need somebody to matchup with the whippets of the Hawks, magic and Lakers at the 4, when they go small. In addition, LeBron is a nasty matchup when the Cavs go small. Most of the time that will be Pierce's assignment in crunch time, but it would be really great to have a long, atheletic 6'9" guy to throw at them for 20 minutes with Tyrus.

As far as his attitude goes, he would receive much better coaching and mentoring on this team than he would anywhere else. Tom would get him squared away defensively. Doc is good with managing egos, and Armand Hill is good with player development (Rondo gives him a lot of credit). There is no way that Thomas would not respect KG, Ray and Paul. Their influence even brought Big Baby into line. The guy who would get to like playing, though, would be Rondo. I'd make sure that Rondo played with him as much as possible. To get him involved, and especially to tap into his transition value.

You have to give something to get something in this league. The Bulls would get capspace, and we would get a very solid and flexible vet in Hinrich who solves a lot of our rotation holes. We would also get a crack at e very tal;ented player in Thomas, who would give our older team a boost in athleticism which could prove valuable down the road.

Always think: playoffs, playoffs, playoffs. How do you build a manageable, flexible rotation that can haandle anything that another team wouyld throw at us. If you have guys who are only good aaginst SOME teams, then how valuable are they? Eddie is perfectly capable of helping us against a team which can't exploit his flaws, but the ones who can (like Detroit a couple of years ago) make him virtually unplayable. Marquis is a solid player, but I seriously wonder about how valuable he would be to us in the playoffs, and there is always the question of whether or not he would even play then. The idea of taking a flyer on Thomas and getting Hinrich in the bargain sounds alot more enticing when you think of the huge payoff that you could get rotationwise. Actually, I'd be perfectly willing to go after Hinrich alone, if we could make that happen, somehow. The dude could play 30+ minutes of the bench for us in a real series against anyone. Think of the benefits.

[snowman]

I'm all for moving Scal, TA, Giddens, Walker and picks for someone who will actually contribute. Personally, I would not move Sheldon Williams unless a really great trade come along. I think he has found his place with the C's. The only reason he isn't playing (I think) is that Danny is show casing Scal for a trade.

I think Wallace, Williams, Davis, Daniels, Hudson, and House is a fantastic 6-11 rotation. If we can turn Scal, TA, Walker, and Giddens into a strong point or big wing it would be great.

[Scalamental]

I liked him on LSU, not much since then.