Alvarez: Big Ten to push for 12th team

[ReasonablySober]

I don't know about that.

Check out the Big 12 North. That division blows. Unless Kansas holds up the success Mangino developed or Kansas State goes back to the Bill Snyder days, that conference stinks.

Granted, all of those teams have had runs of success but not many concurrently for a while.

And when they did recently, Mizzou/Kansas were in the title discussions. There were some slight "oh they didn't play anyone" discussions, especially for Kansas (who really didn't).

Also remember that to play 8 conference games you'll go over to the east and play half those teams, meaning you'll probably get an OSU, PSU, and/or Michigan every year.

Exactly, and it's what I've been considering with the East/West possibility.

[MikeIsGood]

Okay first of all, the crossover doesn't matter. I know there's crossover and a preserved rivalry week (presumably). That's actually part of my argument for why UM and OSU shouldn't be in the same division. They'd play each other every year anyways. It's not about that. It's about getting them in the CC game.

Aside from that, I'm really not sure what point of mine you're addressing or trying to counter-point. That the Big 12 North sucks is precisely why the B10 wouldn't do it. People bitch about the B12 divisions all the time and they have for years. You don't want to gimp a division. You want them balanced so that ideally, even in times when certain programs are down, there still remains a level of competition, and it's important to leave open the possibility that the powerhouse name schools match up in the CC.

Mizzou, Iowa, and Wisconsin is dwarfed compared to Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State, even with Michigan down.

[MikeIsGood]

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/i ... on-dilemma

If the Big Ten expands, it should not make geography a major priority in figuring out divisions. This isn't the Big 12 or the Pac-10, and the distances between Big Ten campuses aren't that great. Competitive balance should be a much greater concern than having things look pretty on paper.

So no matter if the 12th member is located in New Jersey or Missouri, New York or Nebraska, follow this rule: DO NOT put Penn State in the same division as both Ohio State and Michigan.

It could create a lot more problems than a little extra travel. Need evidence? Look at the Big 12 South.

Now Ohio State and Michigan must be in the same division for obvious reasons. The Buckeyes and Wolverines have to play each other every year to continue the best rivalry in college football. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Ohio State-Michigan game remains one of the Big Ten's greatest treasures and traditions. Being in the same division ensures this. Plus, you don't want to see an Ohio State-Michigan rematch in the Big Ten championship game.

If you put Penn State in the same division, you have your three traditional powers all together, which would create competitive imbalance. At least one of those three teams has won or shared the Big Ten title in nine out of the last 10 seasons. Solution: Put Penn State in the opposite division.

[ReasonablySober]

I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a competitive imbalance. You're a Wisconsin fan, right?

[Kerb Hohl]

Fine.

Big 10welve National Division
Wisconsin
Penn State
Minnesota
Iowa
Michigan State
New Guy

Big 10welve American Division
Michigan
OSU
NW
Illinois
Purdue
Indiana

[MikeIsGood]

I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a competitive imbalance. You're a Wisconsin fan, right?

This could be my fault by not being clear enough.

I'm not speaking from a Wisconsin fan's perspective, though I also covered why it isn't necessarily ideal for Wisconsin or Iowa, either. A playoff system could completely change this, but there wouldn't be any rule that the BCS must take the B10 CC game's loser, but the loser's chances would be bolstered by playing in a tougher division. I'm really not trying to put too much emphasis on this, especially since in coming years Wisconsin will be playing Oregon State, Arizona State, and Virginia Tech out of conference. I just think it's something worth noting.

I'm reasoning this from the stand point of the B10 as a whole. It's not ideal to have a loaded division and a cakewalk division. The conference (should) want competitive balance, and to have a big-time match up in the CC game. They (should) want the possibility of having two of the current big three matching up in the big one that will be center stage on ESPN or whatever network it will be on. For them, this is all about: 1) getting into another market, 2) showcasing themselves during championship week when the B12, ACC, and SEC are. Wisconsin or Iowa potentially limping through in a weak year of the B10 East to play the powerhouse that got there after weathering the storm in the B10 West? I don't know why they'd want that.

[MikeIsGood]

Jamie Dixon not a fan:

PITTSBURGH -- Leaving the Big East for the Big Ten would be a big mistake for Pittsburgh, according to men's basketball coach Jamie Dixon.

Dixon calls the Big East "the best conference in college basketball history" and said it wouldn't benefit Pitt or any other conference member to switch leagues.

Big Ten officials plan to spend the next year to 18 months exploring whether to add a 12th member. Pitt has been mentioned as a likely candidate because it offers a large TV market, excellent academics and a prime location. The Panthers could renew their lapsed rivalry with Penn State and form a new one with nearby Ohio State.

Dixon needs to hear a lot more reasons than those.

"I can't see how any team would improve where they're at by movement," Dixon said Thursday. "Every situation, you have to look at why you're doing it to improve yourselves. And I can't see how moving from the best conference in college basketball history would be a good thing for anybody."

While Pitt football might have more to gain than the basketball team by joining the Big Ten, Dixon doesn't believe the move would significantly benefit coach Dave Wannstedt's program, either.

"We've got [football] bowl tie-ins greater than any other conference, as far as percentages, so what would we have to change for?" Dixon said. "This thing just keeps getting better."

Dixon isn't seeing the money in the move for the University or athletic department, and he might not care.

But he also says that he doesn't see why anyone would want to leave because he doesn't see how it would improve their status (presumably as a basketball program, he means). Well, Jim Boeheim has already publicly spoken out about exploring leaving the conference if the size of it hinders chances of getting into the tournament.

And his take on football is just totally off. The Big East was almost removed from the BCS, and the bottom-line is that their bowl revenue is not as great as the Big Ten's. $15M less. The Big Ten's bowl revenue starting next year will likely be even greater, as well, with the new (and crazy) bowl agreement. The Big Ten is going to start playing SIX games on or after new years. Six. I don't know the exact numbers, but I can't imagine the revenue not going up all things considered.

[El Duderino]

Jamie Dixon not a fan:

PITTSBURGH -- Leaving the Big East for the Big Ten would be a big mistake for Pittsburgh, according to men's basketball coach Jamie Dixon.

Dixon calls the Big East "the best conference in college basketball history" and said it wouldn't benefit Pitt or any other conference member to switch leagues.

Big Ten officials plan to spend the next year to 18 months exploring whether to add a 12th member. Pitt has been mentioned as a likely candidate because it offers a large TV market, excellent academics and a prime location. The Panthers could renew their lapsed rivalry with Penn State and form a new one with nearby Ohio State.

Dixon needs to hear a lot more reasons than those.

"I can't see how any team would improve where they're at by movement," Dixon said Thursday. "Every situation, you have to look at why you're doing it to improve yourselves. And I can't see how moving from the best conference in college basketball history would be a good thing for anybody."

While Pitt football might have more to gain than the basketball team by joining the Big Ten, Dixon doesn't believe the move would significantly benefit coach Dave Wannstedt's program, either.

"We've got [football] bowl tie-ins greater than any other conference, as far as percentages, so what would we have to change for?" Dixon said. "This thing just keeps getting better."

Dixon isn't seeing the money in the move for the University or athletic department, and he might not care.

I got called a self loathing Midwesterner by Bern for predicting that this is exactly the response that would come from the Pitt basketball program.

That said, Dixon is very wrong about the football angle.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Or Mizzou, who is a moderate to good team in both football and bball.

Mizzou
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
NW
D1-AA Gophers (for GophZagsBucksPack or whatever)

The thing that sucks is you get a win vs. a D-1AA or FCS or whatever they call it every year. That has to kill your SOS.

Thanks.

[Kerb Hohl]

Or Mizzou, who is a moderate to good team in both football and bball.

Mizzou
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
NW
D1-AA Gophers (for GophZagsBucksPack or whatever)

The thing that sucks is you get a win vs. a D-1AA or FCS or whatever they call it every year. That has to kill your SOS.

Thanks.

It was also to Ryan5UW who loves calling them a D2 team...(which I normally don't).