MVP Rankings 1.0

[JimMurray]

And you don't think LeBron fills in gaps when players are out then gets back to his role when they return?

When does his role change? As far as I've seen, his role is always dominate the ball and either drive to the whole, or kick out to an open guy on the perimeter when the help comes. His role is the same no matter who is in the game....so again I ask you...what other roles?

[INKtastic]

Actually, that speaks more to Lebron ball hogging the handling responsibilities on EVERY POSSESSION and as a result, receiving the benefit of inflated stats. Whats your point?

so carrying more of the load, more of the responsibility, is going to get written off as "inflated stats". Never mind the vastly superior efficiency? Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations.

[JimMurray]

horrible because he's trying to claim 2.1 assists dunks/layups is better than 3.6 assisted dunks/layups. And the odd related claim that an assisted 2 point shot that occasionally gets an and-1 is somehow significantly better than an assisted 3 point shot. LeBron gets more of those too.

Cmon, I know your smart enough to understand that when somebody is asked to handle the ball on every single possession, naturally, their stats going to be inflated. Is this debatable? I know what your trying to do....but we're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

[FatSam]

Kobe will win his 2nd Regular Season MVP in 2010. So far he is the clear favorite, and barring an injury the MVP is his to lose.

[JimMurray]

so carrying more of the load, more of the responsibility, is going to get written off as "inflated stats". Nevermind the vastly superior efficiency?

When it comes to wins and losses....yes. Ultimately, what are we getting at here? At it's heart, this argument is almost 50 years old. It the same old, why is Wilt not better than Kareem and Russell...even though he has VASTLY superior numbers. The latter two were better winners, better manipulators on the court, and smarter ball players. Period. Stats do not adequately quantify what they did for their teams. The answer to the debate doesn't change 50 years later with Kobe and Lebron.

[Classick]

LBJ: 28.8 PPG, 7 RPG, 8 APG, +30.33 Efficiency, 50% FG, 37% 3PT.
Kobe: 28.9 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.1 APG, +25.12 Efficiency, 48% FG, 29% 3PT.

Lol. Why is this even up for debate? Lebron is clearly the better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster, and younger. Team records mean nothing being that they're TEAM records.

[JimMurray]

LBJ: 28.8 PPG, 7 RPG, 8 APG, +30.33 Efficiency, 50% FG, 37% 3PT.
Kobe: 28.9 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.1 APG, +25.12 Efficiency, 48% FG, 29% 3PT.

Lol. Why is this even up for debate? Lebron is clearly the better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster, and younger. Team records mean nothing being that they're TEAM records.

For all the reasons that have taken up the majority of the last 58 pages of this thread....and also because Kobe is better and nobody in Cleveland wants to accept it, even though some are begrudgingly starting to come to terms.

[INKtastic]

horrible because he's trying to claim 2.1 assists dunks/layups is better than 3.6 assisted dunks/layups. And the odd related claim that an assisted 2 point shot that occasionally gets an and-1 is somehow significantly better than an assisted 3 point shot. LeBron gets more of those too.

Cmon, I know your smart enough to understand that when somebody is asked to handle the ball on every single possession, naturally, their stats going to be inflated. Is this debatable? I know what your trying to do....but we're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations. And is HIGHLY effective when used.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09CLE9.HTM#clutch

77.4 points per 48 minutes on an eFG% of .625 is just inflated stats too, right?

[iamworthy]

horrible because he's trying to claim 2.1 assists dunks/layups is better than 3.6 assisted dunks/layups. And the odd related claim that an assisted 2 point shot that occasionally gets an and-1 is somehow significantly better than an assisted 3 point shot. LeBron gets more of those too.

Cmon, I know your smart enough to understand that when somebody is asked to handle the ball on every single possession, naturally, their stats going to be inflated. Is this debatable? I know what your trying to do....but we're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations. And is HIGHLY effective when used.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09CLE9.HTM#clutch

77.4 points per 48 minutes on an eFG% of .625 is just inflated stats too, right?

Laker fans also wonder if you only watch Cavs games and never watch Laker games. Or do you only look at stats. Since the Cav mods only tend to comment on LBJ threads.

[INKtastic]

Laker fans also wonder if you only watch Cavs games and never watch Laker games. Or do you only look at stats. Since the Cav mods only tend to comment on LBJ threads.

other than the cavs, I watch the lakers more than any team in the league (and have NBA league pass)

[iamworthy]

Laker fans also wonder if you only watch Cavs games and never watch Laker games. Or do you only look at stats. Since the Cav mods only tend to comment on LBJ threads.

other than the cavs, I watch the lakers more than any team in the league (and have NBA league pass)

fair enough.

[iamworthy]

It just seems wierd that the Cavs mods only chim in on Lebron threads and not any other threads. Its almost like you guys dont watch any other games but the Cavs...

[Classick]

LBJ: 28.8 PPG, 7 RPG, 8 APG, +30.33 Efficiency, 50% FG, 37% 3PT.
Kobe: 28.9 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.1 APG, +25.12 Efficiency, 48% FG, 29% 3PT.

Lol. Why is this even up for debate? Lebron is clearly the better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster, and younger. Team records mean nothing being that they're TEAM records.

For all the reasons that have taken up the majority of the last 58 pages of this thread....and also because Kobe is better and nobody in Cleveland wants to accept it, even though some are begrudgingly starting to come to terms.

Who is better has nothing to do with who is the most valuable player.

The MVP goes to the most outstanding player. LBJ contributes the most to his team. Kobe is primarily as a scorer- which he's supposed to be. LBJ's position requires him to put up better overall numbers than a 2 guard would. It's really dumb to compare two completely different players directly. That's not how you decide an MVP. That's how you have an endless, and meaningless debate.

[iamworthy]

LBJ: 28.8 PPG, 7 RPG, 8 APG, +30.33 Efficiency, 50% FG, 37% 3PT.
Kobe: 28.9 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.1 APG, +25.12 Efficiency, 48% FG, 29% 3PT.

Lol. Why is this even up for debate? Lebron is clearly the better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster, and younger. Team records mean nothing being that they're TEAM records.

For all the reasons that have taken up the majority of the last 58 pages of this thread....and also because Kobe is better and nobody in Cleveland wants to accept it, even though some are begrudgingly starting to come to terms.

Who is better has nothing to do with who is the most valuable player.

The MVP goes to the most outstanding player. LBJ contributes the most to his team. Kobe is primarily as a scorer- which he's supposed to be. LBJ's position requires him to put up better overall numbers than a 2 guard would. It's really dumb to compare two completely different players directly. That's not how you decide an MVP. That's how you have an endless, and meaningless debate.

Your hate for the lakers shine's bright

[Classick]

Explain how anything that I've said in this thread shows hatred towards the Lakers. I never knew that stating facts means I hate LA despite being raised there for 18 years and attending at least five Laker games.

I guess I should remove my Steve Nash signature if I ever expect to hear anything other than "LOLZ YER JUZ A HATER ROFL WAFFLE" every time I talk about anything Laker related.

And you wonder why no one respects the LA fanbase.

[INKtastic]

i'm now pretty confused. What exactly is the criteria again that says Kobe is better? He was clearly better than LeBron during LeBron's rookie year. But since then, how do you determine better?

stats: LeBron dominates Kobe statistically since then
wins: LeBron has won 10 more games than Kobe since then
playoff stats: LeBron dominates Kobe even more in playoff stats. He's statistically the 2nd best playoff player in league history.
playoff wins: since then LeBron has won 37 playoff games, Kobe has won 35. Both have won at total of 7 playoff series in 4 playoff appearances.

[LebronsCavs]

Actually, that speaks more to Lebron ball hogging the handling responsibilities on EVERY POSSESSION and as a result, receiving the benefit of inflated stats. Whats your point?

so carrying more of the load, more of the responsibility, is going to get written off as "inflated stats". Never mind the vastly superior efficiency? Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations.

This. I swear Kobe fans only watched that Magic series. Lebron plays off the ball alot. He lets Mo/Delonte do there thing. He allows everyone to do what they are capable of plus he provides them all wide open looks.

[Subway Token]

If the Suns make it to the WC Finals, it's Nash. Other than that, I can see Dwight if the Magic take it far. It's gonna be BronBron though.

[Day in the Life]

Lebron's a better player in terms of putting up numbers across the board. He has good teammates that can play good overall team defense and hit the spot up 3. As a result of their offense, LeBron primarily runs the show and draws the offense and kick it out many times and runs the break. Regardless if Cavs fans say that Lebron plays off the ball alot...he still dominates the ball alot more than Kobe as a result of the Triangle.

In addition, Kobe's still a better closer, scorer, and arguably a better man to man defender. The man can score anywhere and anyhow. Broken finger? Use the left hand. Lebron's up there, but I'd still take a healthy Kobe over a healthy LeBron in terms of guarding the other team's best perimeter player. LeBron has improved his game with his added turn around jumper, 3 point shot, etc...but those are things LeBron improved so he could be in Kobe's level. It's obvious from the Olympics that Kobe influenced LeBron to improve his defense and work on things on offense that Kobe does so well like fadeaways and jumpshots. It's obvious watching LeBron play now compared to 1-3 years ago.

In terms of "MVP" and how valuable a player is to a team (If you took that player off the team)...LeBron is definitely the "MVP." In term of who you want to take the final shot, guard the best player in closing minutes, or ask to score at will from anywhere...Kobe is still on a higher level.

[JimMurray]

Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations. And is HIGHLY effective when used.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09CLE9.HTM#clutch

77.4 points per 48 minutes on an eFG% of .625 is just inflated stats too, right?

I have league pass, and the Cavs are my 2nd most watched team. Thats why you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me that the Cavs don't run "Lelso" 85% of the time.