lj4mvp wrote:Bgil wrote:
2010
Lebron 39.5%
Kobe 51.5%
please think though what you are saying.
51.5% of 4.1 = 2.1
39.5% of 8.0 = 3.6
Kobe has the better post players, LeBron sets up more layups and dunk. So to correct your own conclusion
No, the conclusion is that Lebron makes his teammates more perimeter oriented and doesn't adjust to the strengths of his teammates as well. Only percentage is relevant here. This is even more clear by taking it to the extreme: imagine LBJ averaged 100 assists per game on the same percentages... he's still doing more to encourage jumpshooting as opposed to cutting to the basket i.e. the team is still just as perimeter oriented.
As for having better post players, that's irrelevant because Kobe was getting similar numbers (to 2009) when he had Kwame, Mihm, Odom, Cook, Vlad, and Walton as his frontcourt.
We can assume this also means LeBron is getting more would-be assists that turn into fouls under the basket and numerous other good things that come with providing dunks and layups over lower percentage shots.
As for the rest, LeBron isn't finding open jump shooters, he's finding open 3 point specialists.
Mo Williams. In Milwaukee he was .385 from 3. He's now at .443.
Anthony Parker. In Milwaukee he was .390 from 3. He's now leading the league at .500
Wow, they went out and bought some three point specialists to fit in with Lebron's game instead of him changing his game to fit in with the talent they already had... how does that address my point? Oh yeah, it doesn't... they still turned Z into a 7 foot 3 inch outside shooter. Hate to break it to you but if Z played for the Lakers he'd be in the post a lot more than he is in Cleveland even if it meant sacrificing part of Kobe's game to do so.
And I believe it's because of the selection of players for the comparison. As I said in that thread
Which is partially b.s. because we know that Damon Jones and Wally (among others) weren't "clearly in decline". Let's not forget that Wally was traded midseason and the difference between his play in Seattle and Cleveland could not be more striking. Freethrow percentages for a lot of Lakers also went through the floor (Odom, Kwame etc.) and they were still able to ball out.
Sometimes i wonder if Kobe fans even watch LeBron play or just watch sportscenter highlights. They don't run LeIso all the time, it's primarly an end of quarter, late game offense. He plays quite a bit off the ball the rest of the time. He doesn't bring the ball up the court all of the time either, it's primarily done in the same situations.
While that's (partially) technically correct it misses the point. When Lebron is "off the ball" he's usually just standing there doing nothing. Kobe's doing far more off the ball to get himself shots and be part of plays for others than Lebron could even dream of doing. Hell, watch a Jazz game sometime and you'll see WORKING off the ball as opposed to Lebron's just doing nothing.
so carrying more of the load, more of the responsibility, is going to get written off as "inflated stats". Never mind the vastly superior efficiency?
Lebron only takes 25% of his teams shots. Therefore, increasing the efficiency of the other 75% is usually MUCH more important than increasing the efficiency of Lebron's 25%. So if Lebron could play his C game (decreasing his fg% by say 3-5 percent) to allow most of his teammates to play their A games (increasing their percentages 3-5 percent) he would actually be playing better basketball.
i'm now pretty confused. What exactly is the criteria again that says Kobe is better? He was clearly better than LeBron during LeBron's rookie year. But since then, how do you determine better?
stats: LeBron dominates Kobe statistically since then
wins: LeBron has won 10 more games than Kobe since then
playoff stats: LeBron dominates Kobe even more in playoff stats. He's statistically the 2nd best playoff player in league history.
playoff wins: since then LeBron has won 37 playoff games, Kobe has won 35. Both have won at total of 7 playoff series in 4 playoff appearances.
That's just cherry picking.
Lebron has 10 more wins in a conference that is usually much weaker than Kobe's conference.
Lebron dominates in the playoffs but has only played 4 teams that would have made the playoffs in the Western Conference (Pistons 2x, Celtics, Spurs) and got destroyed in 3 of those series.
In addition, Kobe's still a better closer, scorer, and arguably a better man to man defender. The man can score anywhere and anyhow. Broken finger? Use the left hand. Lebron's up there, but I'd still take a healthy Kobe over a healthy LeBron in terms of guarding the other team's best perimeter player.
Lebron is not a great man defender. I would say he's about average for an athletic SF.
"I'm sure they'll jump off the bandwagon. Then when we do get back on top, they're going to want to jump back on, and we're going to tell them there's no more room." - Kobe in March of 2005