Will Roy and Aldridge be BYC next season?

[Village Idiot]

from my reading of Mr. Coon's FAQ it would appear to me that due to Portland being under the cap when their salaries were signed, that they would not have BYC status during the 2010-11 season.

Can anyone confirm or refute please?

[Three34]

They were over the cap when Aldridge was signed, as Mills, Cunningham, Howard and Pendergraph all signed after Andre Miller.

[Village Idiot]

They were over the cap when Aldridge was signed, as Mills, Cunningham, Howard and Pendergraph all signed after Andre Miller.

According to your own site Portland is currently under the salary cap. Is not being under the cap at any point also a criteria for the BYC to go away?

Storyteller also has Portland currently under the cap.

[Three34]

After renouncing the rights to all their free agents - from Raef LaFrentz to Chris Dudley - Portland had exactly $7,692,932 in cap room. They had $47,345,768 commited in players (Miles, Oden, Przybilla, Webster, Roy, Outlaw, Aldridge, Blame, Batum, Fernandez, Bayless) and $2,661,300 in those three cap holds ($1,012,900 for Claver, and $824,200 for both Koponen and Freeland). That gave them the $7,692,932 in cap room, which, not coincidentally, is the same amount in the first year of the offer sheet that they gave Paul Millsap. After that offer sheet was matched, they unrenounced Shavlik Randolph for no real reason, and then signed Miller to a deal starting at $6,730,800. That reduced their cap room to a paltry $932,132, most of which was used on Randolph's cap hold (which was renounced when Pendergraph signed). And when they later signed Cunningham, Howard, Mills and Pendergraph all the minimum, that put them over the cap again, way before Aldridge signed.

Cap holds for draft picks only exist during the offseason, however, and I don't know what date Aldridge signed his extension. If he signed it after the regular season started, there might be a case.

[Dunkenstein]

Shavlik Randolph was signed by Miami in September, so his cap hold came off Portland's books at that time. Portland signed Aldridge to his extension on October 22nd.

[Three34]

Does the offseason officially run until opening night, or until the date camp opens? I'd always thought it was the former, and if it is, then Portland would have been over the cap when Aldridge signed his extension.

[Dunkenstein]

Unsder the CBA definitions, “Season” or “NBA Season” means the period beginning on the first day of training camp and ending immediately after the last game of the NBA Finals.

[FGump]

1 The CBA says "at or above the cap" when the player is signed. It's logical that they'd be thinking about the season in which the extension takes effect rather than the exact moment the extension is agreed to, but the wording seems to be saying at the time of the signing. Here's the pertinent section:

(i) For purposes of the Traded Player Exception, a player shall be subject to a Base Year Compensation in the event that the Team Salary of the player’s Team is at or above the Salary Cap and the player ... is a First Round Pick who, in accordance with Section 7(b) below, enters into an Extension of his Rookie Scale Contract that provides for a Salary for the first Season of the extended term greater than 120% of the Salary for the last Season of the original term of the Contract;

If they are somehow applying this to the point at which the extension goes into effect, then that changes everything.

2 Sham's analysis above shows Roy as an under-the-cap and Aldridge as an over-the-cap situation at the moment of signing.

3 If they were above the cap at the moment of signing and later moved below it, it would NOT erase base year status in this situation as follows:

A player’s Base Year Compensation shall be extinguished upon ...the Team Salary of the player’s Team falls below the Salary Cap, unless this occurs prior to the beginning of an extended term described in Section 6(h)(4)(i)(B) or (C) above;

4 Regardless, it's almost certainly a moot issue. Neither is trade fodder anyhow ,and the chance of that changing is incredibly tiny.

[Dunkenstein]

After renouncing the rights to all their free agents - from Raef LaFrentz to Chris Dudley - Portland had exactly $7,692,932 in cap room. They had $47,345,768 commited in players (Miles, Oden, Przybilla, Webster, Roy, Outlaw, Aldridge, Blame, Batum, Fernandez, Bayless) and $2,661,300 in those three cap holds ($1,012,900 for Claver, and $824,200 for both Koponen and Freeland). That gave them the $7,692,932 in cap room, which, not coincidentally, is the same amount in the first year of the offer sheet that they gave Paul Millsap. After that offer sheet was matched, they unrenounced Shavlik Randolph for no real reason, and then signed Miller to a deal starting at $6,730,800. That reduced their cap room to a paltry $932,132, most of which was used on Randolph's cap hold (which was renounced when Pendergraph signed). And when they later signed Cunningham, Howard, Mills and Pendergraph all the minimum, that put them over the cap again, way before Aldridge signed.

You say that when Portland signed Cunningham, Howard, Mills and Pendergraph all the minimum, that put them over the cap. On September 22 when they signed Aldridge they also waived Udoka and Jarron Collins which brought them under the cap, where they are today. However, would the 48 hour wait period to clear waivers on Udoka and Collins mean that they were still technically over the cap when they signed Aldridge?

[Three34]

Well if "offseason" is used to describe time until the start of camp, as you say, then Portland would have been under it regardless, as the cap holds of Claver, Koponen and Freeland would no longer apply. So as of October 22nd, it'd've been this:

Darius Miles - $9,000,000
Joel Przybilla - $6,857,725
Andre Miller - $6,730,800
LaMarcus Aldridge -$5,844,827
Greg Oden -$5,361,240
Martell Webster $4,344,000
Steve Blake - $4,000,000
Brandon Roy - $3,910,816
Travis Outlaw - $3,600,000
Jerryd Bayless - $2,143,080
Rudy Fernandez - $1,165,320
Nicolas Batum - $1,118,760
Juwan Howard - $825,497
Jarron Collins - $825,497
Ime Udoka - $825,497
Jeff Pendergraph - $457,588
Dante Cunningham - $457,588

Total: - $57,468,325. Juuuuuust under it, even with Collins and Udoka.

So if the three cap holds were still binding as of October 22nd, Portland were over the cap. If they weren't, they were under it by a tiny smidge. Considering the nature of the initial question, that's proven to be way more important than it looks.

[FGump]

I'm not doing any calculating of the totals, but maybe the following will help.

1 Cap holds for unsigned first-rounders apply until the first day of the regular season.

"...the player’s applicable Rookie Scale Amount shall be excluded from the Team Salary of the Team that holds his draft rights, beginning on the date he signs such non-NBA contract or the first day of the Regular Season, whichever is later..."

2 Odoka and Collins (as well as Mills) probably had no cap charge at any point until the season began, since it appears all 3 had one-year non-guaranteed deals which typically carry no cap charge until the season begins.

"...from July 1 until the day prior to the first day of the next Regular Season, a Team may enter into Player Contracts that will not be included in Team Salary until the first day of such Regular Season (i.e., the player will be deemed not to have any Salary until the first day of such Regular Season), provided that such Contracts satisfy the requirements of this Section 4(i) (a “Summer Contract”). Except as set forth in the following sentence, no Summer Contract may provide for (i) Compensation of any kind that is or may be paid or earned prior to the first day of the next Regular Season, or (ii) Compensation protection or insurance of any kind pursuant to Article II, Section 3(e) or 4. The only consideration that may be provided to a player signed to a Summer Contract, prior to the start of the Regular Season, is per diem, lodging, transportation, compensation in accordance with paragraph 3(b) of the Uniform Player Contract, and a disability insurance policy covering disabilities incurred while such player participates in summer leagues or rookie camps for the Team. A Team that has entered into one or more Summer Contracts must terminate such Contracts no later than the day prior to the first day of a Regular Season, except to the extent the Team has Room for such Contracts...."

[Three34]

1 Cap holds for unsigned first-rounders apply until the first day of the regular season.

Aha. Well in that case, I'll stick with my first answer; they were over the cap when Aldridge was signed.

[Village Idiot]

This turned into a more difficult case than I expected it to be.

Judging from some the analysis it is entirely possible that Portland was also under the cap when Aldridge was resigned. I'm guessing that if Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard would have timed things just right to ensure that both Roy and Aldridge would not get BYC status if it was at all possible.

While I don't see Portland being eager to trade either of them I imagine that if either LeBron or Bosh want to come to Portland I'm sure Kevin Pritchard would be happy to accomodate them and send out Roy and/or Aldridge.

[Three34]

Judging from some the analysis it is entirely possible that Portland was also under the cap when Aldridge was resigned.

As we concluded, they weren't.

[Village Idiot]

Yes. Of course.

[Dekko1]

they unrenounced Shavlik Randolph for no real reason,

IIRC he asked to be released.

[Three34]

The unrenouncing had nothing to do with wanting to be released. He was already released, roaming free, living off the land and grazing on pastures new. Portland renounced Randolph - a UFA - along with all their free agents of the last 8 years or so (including seminal names such as Chris Dudley, Deftly Shrimps and Luke Schenscher) in order to generate the $7.7 millionish in cap room it took to sign Millsap to an offer sheet. But when they offer sheet was matched, they unrenounced Randolph (which you can do if you renounce someone in order to sign an offer sheet that is later matched), putting his sub-$1 million cap hold back on the books. Not any of the others - just him. There was no real reason for this, unless they thought they might want to bring him back for more than the minimum salary at some point. They didn't need him to have a cap hold to bring him back for the minimum, so unless they wanted to do something with his non-Bird rights, this gesture was kind of meaningless. And given that they let him walk to the Heat unchallenged and for no guaranteed money, bringing him back never seemed likely anyway.

[bgwizarfan]

both Roy and Aldridge are both BYC. I know what the CBA says, as you have all pointed out, but I think it is different with Rookie Scale Extension, because the extension does not kick in until the following year. For those players, it seems the league interprets it starting with the following July 1st, and if they are under the cap at any point the following year, the player loses the BYC.

[Dekko1]

But when they offer sheet was matched, they unrenounced Randolph (which you can do if you renounce someone in order to sign an offer sheet that is later matched), putting his sub-$1 million cap hold back on the books. Not any of the others - just him. There was no real reason for this, unless they thought they might want to bring him back for more than the minimum salary at some point. They didn't need him to have a cap hold to bring him back for the minimum, so unless they wanted to do something with his non-Bird rights, this gesture was kind of meaningless.

Perhaps, since they were also looking at trades, did so just in case they might need to use him as a sign and trade for more than minimum to make something work?

[Three34]

How's that more useful than having the cap space to absorb salary with? I think a recipient team would rather receive nothing at all than receiving Shavlik Randolph on a guaranteed contract.