MVP Rankings 1.0

Baller2000 · Post #961 » by **Baller2000** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:38 pm

Kobe Bryant was named the POW today, his 2nd of the season so far.

Since we are a full quarter into the season, no it's not to early to discuss the award.

...and yes, those were MVP chants you are all hearing in YOUR team's home arenas.

Kobe is on his way to his 2nd MVP.

Baller2000 · Post #962 » by **Baller2000** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:48 pm

Fantasy stat games have ruined a generation of basketball fans. They would rather look at stats (that help them win their online geek games) from a Yahoo Box score and determine who excels, who doesn't, who MVP is and who isn't. Quite convenient, lazy, and thoroughly pathetic.

When did your eyes, brain, and basketball analysis make way for Arm Chair Fantasy Stat Fan-boys? When it became an online game of numbers, rather then reality put in it's actual basketball context.

Why watch the games, when that =/- and FG% tells me everything I need to know! Stats tell the entire story....right? Right?

Post #963 » by **INKtastic** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:48 pm

because number of MVP chants determines the winner :roll:

Baller2000 · Post #964 » by **Baller2000** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:50 pm

lj4mvp wrote:because number of MVP chants determines the winner

No, but it's a gauge of what people and fans are a "witness" to.

LebronsCavs · Post #965 » by **LebronsCavs** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:23 pm

Baller2000 wrote:Fantasy stat games have ruined a generation of basketball fans. They would rather look at stats (that help them win their online geek games) from a Yahoo Box score and determine who excels, who doesn't, who MVP is and who isn't. Quite convenient, lazy, and thoroughly pathetic.

When did your eyes, brain, and basketball analysis make way for Arm Chair Fantasy Stat Fan-boys? When it became an online game of numbers, rather then reality put in it's actual basketball context.

Why watch the games, when that =/- and FG% tells me everything I need to know! Stats tell the entire story....right? Right?

You act like a lot of people on this site don't watch Kobe/Lebron play. Lebron has a bigger impact on the game. Period.

Dat Pass · Post #966 » by **Dat Pass** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:28 pm

LebronsCavs wrote:
Baller2000 wrote:Fantasy stat games have ruined a generation of basketball fans. They would rather look at stats (that help them win their online geek games) from a Yahoo Box score and determine who excels, who doesn't, who MVP is and who isn't. Quite convenient, lazy, and thoroughly pathetic.

When did your eyes, brain, and basketball analysis make way for Arm Chair Fantasy Stat Fan-boys? When it became an online game of numbers, rather then reality put in it's actual basketball context.

Why watch the games, when that =/- and FG% tells me everything I need to know! Stats tell the entire story....right? Right?

You act like a lot of people on this site don't watch Kobe/Lebron play. Lebron has a bigger impact on the game. Period.

If his impact is so much bigger, than why couldnt he win agaisnt the Raptors, Bulls, Wizards, Bobcats, Grizzlies and Dirk-less Mavs? I understand losing a few bad games here and there, but 5-6 bad losses barely 1/4 into the season?

LebronsCavs · Post #967 » by **LebronsCavs** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:33 pm

Teammates play a factor too.

Dat Pass · Post #968 » by **Dat Pass** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:37 pm

LebronsCavs wrote:Teammates play a factor too.

How shocking that a LeBron fanboy brings up the "teammate" argument. Its the GD Raptors, Bulls, Wizards, Bobcats, Grizzlies and Dirk-less Mavs... Does LeBron really need more talent than he already has to beat those teams? Give me a break. They won 66 games last year and added 3 solid role players.

And heres the funny thing, there was only ONE player in yesterdays game that shot worse than LeBron, and yet, its somehow everyone BUT LeBrons fault...

eatyourchildren · Post #969 » by **eatyourchildren** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:52 pm

LebronsCavs wrote:Teammates play a factor too.

They definitely do. Which is why individual stats in the NBA aren't nearly as useful as aggregate team stats.

What I want to know is why the additions of Moon and Parker (who aren't system destroyers the way Shaq is) haven't been contributing more to the team?

Benedict_Boozer · Post #970 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:05 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:
They definitely do. Which is why individual stats in the NBA aren't nearly as useful as aggregate team stats.

What I want to know is why the additions of Moon and Parker (who aren't system destroyers the way Shaq is) haven't been contributing more to the team?

Moon has been excellent. Actually what's funny is, in virtually all of our losses Moon has been out with injury. Without him Lebron is the only CLE player who can match up to taller/athletic wings, the same flaw that got us taken out against ORL.

Parker is leading the NBA in 3pt % at over 50% - but age/declining athleticism are minimizing his impact. He's at that 34/35 year old range where guys start to drop off.

LebronsCavs · Post #971 » by **LebronsCavs** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:34 am

Ball Boy wrote:
LebronsCavs wrote:Teammates play a factor too.

How shocking that a LeBron fanboy brings up the "teammate" argument. Its the GD Raptors, Bulls, Wizards, Bobcats, Grizzlies and Dirk-less Mavs... Does LeBron really need more talent than he already has to beat those teams? Give me a break. They won 66 games last year and added 3 solid role players.

And heres the funny thing, there was only ONE player in yesterdays game that shot worse than LeBron, and yet, its somehow everyone BUT LeBrons fault...

I guess you do have a point. All those games the Cavs should have won (The Grizz are a solid team so I wouldn't include them). Lebron was coasting for a bit at the beginning, but I feel like he has been more focused as of late. Even though they have lost to some bad teams, they are still 21-8 and 21-6 in their last 27 games.

See5 · Post #972 » by **See5** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:42 am

Chicago Tribune: Who is the NBA MVP so far?

OGSactownballer · Post #973 » by **OGSactownballer** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:23 am

It's actually a really easy argument to make.

If you want the guy who literally does EVERYTHING for his team better than anybody else - pick LeBron.

If you want the guy who is going to win for you every time with that iceinhisveins lastseconddaggershot - pick Kobe.

Personally, I'd rather have the well-rounded team that has the guy who finishes EVERY TIME.

mysticbb · Post #974 » by **mysticbb** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:54 am

OGSactownballer wrote:If you want the guy who is going to win for you every time with that iceinhisveins lastseconddaggershot - pick Kobe.

Well, that would be Dirk Nowitzki so far in this season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=291103006
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=291118006
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=291116015
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=291212006

Add those 55 of 55 free throws in 4th quarters and overtime in this season, and you got the probably best clutch player in this season so far.

Anyway, the discussion should be more about the best player on the best team against the best player in the league. Bryant vs. James, and right now I can see a couple of arguments for Bryant. Non of those should be about his injury. How dumb is that anyway to include that? Either he is helping his team win or not, an injury doesn't matter, and Bryant is helping his team win.

jrich88 · Post #975 » by **jrich88** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:09 am

See5 wrote:Chicago Tribune: Who is the NBA MVP so far?

oh those blind laker fans..oh wait

Inhuman · Post #976 » by **Inhuman** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:11 am

4th quarter scoring is meaningless if you are usually sitting in the bench most of the time.

JimMurray · Post #977 » by **JimMurray** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:23 am

LebronsCavs wrote:
Actually the supporting cast has gotten worse IMO. With Z declining and Delonte out/not the same as he was last year (arguably the Cavs 2nd best player last season). People forget what Delonte brings to the table. He does a bit of everything and usually guards the opponents best 2 guard/pg/

Bullsh**.

LebronsCavs · Post #978 » by **LebronsCavs** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:28 am

JimMurray wrote:
LebronsCavs wrote:
Actually the supporting cast has gotten worse IMO. With Z declining and Delonte out/not the same as he was last year (arguably the Cavs 2nd best player last season). People forget what Delonte brings to the table. He does a bit of everything and usually guards the opponents best 2 guard/pg/

Bullsh**.

Its true. Today Delonte played meaningful minutes and played like he did last year. Result? Blow out win in Phoenix, their first home loss. The Cavs really need Delonte to be back to his form of last year.

JimMurray · Post #979 » by **JimMurray** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:32 am

lj4mvp wrote:and the problems with your long post are

1 - you claim that Kobe in the post is going to be as efficient as LeBron, yet we've already established that he played in the post while Gasol was out and even then he wasn't as efficient as LeBron.

Never once did I ever make that claim. Don't put words into my mouth. Also, you're going to base your argument on an 11 game sample size where he had a PER over 29? Fire yourself as mod...right now.

2 - you claim LeBron isn't playing to his players strengths because he gets lots of perimeter assists while acknowledging they have 3 point specialists on the team. You don't set up Mo Williams and Delonte West for a layup, you set them up for a 3 pointer.

I never said anything about this, you're referring to somebody else's post. And you're logic is ridiculous, because both of those players have a much higher percentage shooting layup's than three pointers...or they can't be in the NBA.

3 - you claim these 3 points specialists are replacing players LeBron couldn't adapt to. Wrong, they replaced players like eric snow, who couldn't shoot from anywhere. Larry Hughes, who isn't a post player. Ben Wallace, who can't consistently make a dunk.

Great. What's your point?

4 - you claim Damon Jones and Wally weren't on the decline. Damon shot .417 from 3 in 08, wally shot .411 from 3 in 09. Nothing wrong with either of those percentages, both are above their career averages. but where are they now?

I'm pretty sure you're not responding to my post, because I never brought up either of these players. And what does this have to do with anything?

5 - the east vs west argument is irrelevant, LeBron's cavs consistently have better winning percentages vs the west than Kobe's lakers. Such as last year going 26-4 vs the west.

Hell no it isn't irrelevant. Just because they could get up for a big game against a quality West team and earn a good record against the west doesn't mean they don't play a weaker schedule and that it doesn't matter. If the Cavs are supposed to be a top 3 team they're supposed to beat those teams anyway. Difficult schedules manifest themselves in losses to bad teams, which Cleveland has plenty of those this season.

6 - in a later post you acknowledge the lakers have the better supporting cast. Yet Cleveland is the team who won the most games last year and Cleveland is the team with the better record vs the west.

[/quote]

Does anyone need to acknowledge this? Aren't we all in agreement here? What is your effin point? Cleveland won the most games last year so they should do the same this year...right? But they're not. I don't care what their record against the west was, they weren't playing those teams on a regular basis enough for it to affect their schedules. Anyone playing in the east who is a good team gets to beat up on D league teams on a nightly basis. Once in awhile they get to prepare for a good team out West. Big effin deal. We've already established that when you play tough teams on a nightly basis it wears on a team and manifests itself in losses that should never have been losses. The Cavs record against the West is irrelevant, especially if they have a bad record against bad teams.

JimMurray · Post #980 » by **JimMurray** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:34 am

lj4mvp wrote:1 - kobe is no longer teh better shooter from long range - that changed mid season last year. LeBron has passed him, no regression tot he mean is going to change that.[/quote

Yes he is. Just because he hasn't been a better shooter for 26 games doesn't change the fact that he's been the better shooter his entire career. Somebody who bases all of their arguments on stats should know that this isn't a representative sample size.

5 - except that's not what happens. Cleveland plays 30 against the west, LA plays 53, cleveland does better against the west. Cleveland plays 52 vs the east, LA plays 30 against the east, Cleveland does better. This has been pretty consistent the last several years with the exception of the cavs injury riddled season of 08.

So effin what...you are wrong, and I'm not repeating myself.