MVP Rankings 1.0

[LebronsCavs]

You realize the East was better than the West last year right?

LebronCavs....I love you.

But you're not allowed to make stuff up.

Check the head to head record. Just take a quick look at each conference last year.

Each was considerably better from 1-3 ( record wise) , and MUCH better from 10-15. 6 of the worst 7 teams were in the West last year. The West had an edge from 4-9 though. But the advantages the east had at the top and bottom, made them a better conference.

[INKtastic]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

[ROballer]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMq ... re=related

[Dat Pass]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

Wow, lets quote ONE man, and ignore the voting of 62 others..

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=t ... &type=lgns

I swear, you LeBron fans are completely blind to the outside world. You guys continue to post that LeBron is widely known as the best player in the NBA, WHEN ITS JUST NOT TRUE.

[Dat Pass]

Teammates play a factor too.

How shocking that a LeBron fanboy brings up the "teammate" argument. Its the GD Raptors, Bulls, Wizards, Bobcats, Grizzlies and Dirk-less Mavs... Does LeBron really need more talent than he already has to beat those teams? Give me a break. They won 66 games last year and added 3 solid role players.

And heres the funny thing, there was only ONE player in yesterdays game that shot worse than LeBron, and yet, its somehow everyone BUT LeBrons fault...

I guess you do have a point. All those games the Cavs should have won (The Grizz are a solid team so I wouldn't include them). Lebron was coasting for a bit at the beginning, but I feel like he has been more focused as of late. Even though they have lost to some bad teams, they are still 21-8 and 21-6 in their last 27 games.

Wow, one of your first posts that actually makes some sense. THANK YOU for admitting that LeBron has coasted at times. Especially early on. And for that, LeBron should get punished in the MVP voting. Just admit that Kobe is ahead right now, everyone else knows it.

[INKtastic]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMq ... re=related

Those all predate the Jerry West quote, most by more than a year. Odd situation where Laker fans are arguing against Jerry West.

[Dat Pass]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMq ... re=related

Those all predate the Jerry West quote, most by more than a year. Odd situation where Laker fans are arguing against Jerry West.

Wow, lets quote ONE man, and ignore the voting of 62 others..

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=t ... &type=lgns

I swear, you LeBron fans are completely blind to the outside world. You guys continue to post that LeBron is widely known as the best player in the NBA, WHEN ITS JUST NOT TRUE.

[ROballer]

"Even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player." - Jerry West - 5/18/09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMq ... re=related

Those all predate the Jerry West quote, most by more than a year. Odd situation where Laker fans are arguing against Jerry West.

So now Jerry West is God,if he says lebron is the best that means that he is

[INKtastic]

right, the same list says said the lakers had 4 of the 50 best players last year, the cavs had the better record, but somehow the team with only 1 top 50 player had the better record. How is that consistent with putting a player from the first team at the top? It's not like you can't find other problems with that list too. Does anyone really believe 38 year old Shaq is better than Pau Gasol or that McGrady is the 24th best player in the league? Would you honestly take Redd (49) over Bynum (50)?

[Dat Pass]

right, the same list says said the lakers had 4 of the 50 best players last year, the cavs had the better record, but somehow the team with only 1 top 50 player had the better record. How is that consistent with putting a player from the first team at the top? It's not like you can't find other problems with that list too. Does anyone really believe 38 year old Shaq is better than Pau Gasol or that McGrady is the 24th best player in the league? Would you honestly take Redd (49) over Bynum (50)?

We've been over this already. More than likely these guys put some thought into the top 5-10 players and just quickly went thru the rest. Think about it this way, if it was JUST a voting on the best player in the league, Kobe still would've won it by almost a 2-1 margin. But yet, you expect us to totally disregard that and take your ONE quote as more meaningful.

[LebronsCavs]

Wow, one of your first posts that actually makes some sense. THANK YOU for admitting that LeBron has coasted at times. Especially early on. And for that, LeBron should get punished in the MVP voting. Just admit that Kobe is ahead right now, everyone else knows it.

If the season ended today, the media would give Kobe the award. But that doesnt mean he would deserve it. Kobe has superior teammates, so he doesnt have to do everything for his team to win. If Kobe has a bad shooting night, the Lakers have the team defense and the personnel to over come that. While Lebron has to always be playing at his best to give the Cavs their best shot. Just check my sig.

[Dat Pass]

Wow, one of your first posts that actually makes some sense. THANK YOU for admitting that LeBron has coasted at times. Especially early on. And for that, LeBron should get punished in the MVP voting. Just admit that Kobe is ahead right now, everyone else knows it.

If the season ended today, the media would give Kobe the award. But that doesnt mean he would deserve it. Kobe has superior teammates, so he doesnt have to do everything for his team to win. If Kobe has a bad shooting night, the Lakers have the team defense and the personnel to over come that. While Lebron has to always be playing at his best to give the Cavs their best shot. Just check my sig.

You need to update that sig.

When Kobe shoots under 40% this season: The Lakers are 1-3.

Therefore, when Kobe shoots 40% or better: The Lakers are 21-1.

Want to re-think your argument?

[INKtastic]

right, the same list says said the lakers had 4 of the 50 best players last year, the cavs had the better record, but somehow the team with only 1 top 50 player had the better record. How is that consistent with putting a player from the first team at the top? It's not like you can't find other problems with that list too. Does anyone really believe 38 year old Shaq is better than Pau Gasol or that McGrady is the 24th best player in the league? Would you honestly take Redd (49) over Bynum (50)?

We've been over this already. More than likely these guys put some thought into the top 5-10 players and just quickly went thru the rest. Think about it this way, if it was JUST a voting on the best player in the league, Kobe still would've won it by almost a 2-1 margin. But yet, you expect us to totally disregard that and take your ONE quote as more meaningful.

i just find it curious that Lakers fans are arguing so strongly against Jerry west. Did you look at the list of the names that voted? Do you think all of those people watch Kobe and LeBron on a nightly basis? Do you honestly value the player evaluation skills of people like Muggsy Bogues over Jerry West? A large percentage of the list hasn't had a tie to the league in decades.

[INKtastic]

Wow, one of your first posts that actually makes some sense. THANK YOU for admitting that LeBron has coasted at times. Especially early on. And for that, LeBron should get punished in the MVP voting. Just admit that Kobe is ahead right now, everyone else knows it.

If the season ended today, the media would give Kobe the award. But that doesnt mean he would deserve it. Kobe has superior teammates, so he doesnt have to do everything for his team to win. If Kobe has a bad shooting night, the Lakers have the team defense and the personnel to over come that. While Lebron has to always be playing at his best to give the Cavs their best shot. Just check my sig.

You need to update that sig.

When Kobe shoots under 40% this season: The Lakers are 1-3.

Therefore, when Kobe shoots 40% or better: The Lakers are 21-1.

Want to re-think your argument?

both arguments are bad and in this very thread, Kobe fans have argued both sides of it. If LeBron has a poor game and the cavs lose, he's blamed for letting the team down. If Kobe has a bad game and the Lakers lose, then it's said the Lakers can't win without him. If LeBron has a good game and the Lakers loose, he's blamed for not getting more out of his teammates. If Kobe has a good game and the Lakers lose, he's credited for stepping up to try to will them to a win.

[Dat Pass]

i just find it curious that Lakers fans are arguing so strongly against Jerry west. Did you look at the list of the names that voted? Do you think all of those people watch Kobe and LeBron on a nightly basis? Do you honestly value the player evaluation skills of people like Muggsy Bogues over Jerry West? A large percentage of the list hasn't had a tie to the league in decades.

Are you kidding me right now? How are you a Forum Mod?

Lets see here, should I go off the opinion of ONE man, or the opinions of 62 Hall of Famers, major award winners, executives, current players, coaches and other basketball experts?

Sure, if we just cherry picked one random guy on the list and compared his basketball knowledge to Jerry West's, then obviously most people would side with West. But come on, 62 of these guys who ALL have strong ties in the NBA.. they all went with Kobe.

[LebronsCavs]

lol you should calm down with the insults.

[Dat Pass]

You need to update that sig.

When Kobe shoots under 40% this season: The Lakers are 1-3.

Therefore, when Kobe shoots 40% or better: The Lakers are 21-1.

Want to re-think your argument?

both arguments are bad and in this very thread, Kobe fans have argued both sides of it. If LeBron has a poor game and the cavs lose, he's blamed for letting the team down. If Kobe has a bad game and the Lakers lose, then it's said the Lakers can't win without him. If LeBron has a good game and the Lakers loose, he's blamed for not getting more out of his teammates. If Kobe has a good game and the Lakers lose, he's credited for stepping up to try to will them to a win.

I wasnt using it as an argument. He was. I was just showing him how wrong he was.

Lets get to the bottom of this, Im sick of you dancing around the subject.

Who is YOUR MVP right now? What do the standings have to look like for LeBron to win?

[INKtastic]

i just find it curious that Lakers fans are arguing so strongly against Jerry west. Did you look at the list of the names that voted? Do you think all of those people watch Kobe and LeBron on a nightly basis? Do you honestly value the player evaluation skills of people like Muggsy Bogues over Jerry West? A large percentage of the list hasn't had a tie to the league in decades.

Are you kidding me right now? How are you a Forum Mod?

Lets see here, should I go off the opinion of ONE man, or the opinions of 62 Hall of Famers, major award winners, executives, current players, coaches and other basketball experts?

Sure, if we just cherry picked one random guy on the list and compared his basketball knowledge to Jerry West's, then obviously most people would side with West. But come on, 62 of these guys who ALL have strong ties in the NBA.. they all went with Kobe.

I had two points.

1 - the quality of the people voting isn't the best. There are quite a few people with no current ties to the league, Mugsy Bogues was just one example. There are quite a few more poeple like him on the list of voters than there are people like Jerry West.

2 - where is the logic in saying the guy the voters said had 3 top 50 teammates last year, but finished with a worse record, is better than the guy who had no top 50 teammates. Perhaps there is not as much thought given to absolute positions withing the 50, but that doesn't change the fact that multiple teammates of Kobe's were voted into the 50. This either shows a built in lakers bias within the voters or shows that Kobe won less with a lot more help.

[LebronsCavs]

i just find it curious that Lakers fans are arguing so strongly against Jerry west. Did you look at the list of the names that voted? Do you think all of those people watch Kobe and LeBron on a nightly basis? Do you honestly value the player evaluation skills of people like Muggsy Bogues over Jerry West? A large percentage of the list hasn't had a tie to the league in decades.

Are you kidding me right now? How are you a Forum Mod?

Lets see here, should I go off the opinion of ONE man, or the opinions of 62 Hall of Famers, major award winners, executives, current players, coaches and other basketball experts?

Sure, if we just cherry picked one random guy on the list and compared his basketball knowledge to Jerry West's, then obviously most people would side with West. But come on, 62 of these guys who ALL have strong ties in the NBA.. they all went with Kobe.

I had two points.

1 - the quality of the people voting isn't the best. There are quite a few people with no current ties to the league, Mugsy Bogues was just one example. There are quite a few more poeple like him on the list of voters than there are people like Jerry West.

2 - where is the logic in saying the guy the voters said had 3 top 50 teammates last year, but finished with a worse record, is better than the guy who had no top 50 teammates. Perhaps there is not as much thought given to absolute positions withing the 50, but that doesn't change the fact that multiple teammates of Kobe's were voted into the 50. This either shows a built in lakers bias within the voters or shows that Kobe won less with a lot more help.

We all already know this, thus the reason Lebron won MVP handily last year. Lebron will have to keep the Cavs within 5 games of the Lakers, while probably having to lead the Cavs to the best record in the East. I think both are possible, but I wouldnt bet on it.

[INKtastic]

I wasnt using it as an argument. He was. I was just showing him how wrong he was.

Lets get to the bottom of this, Im sick of you dancing around the subject.

Who is YOUR MVP right now? What do the standings have to look like for LeBron to win?

The best player on a team with a top record. It's too early in the season to set arbitrary win totals as it's unknown what factors will go into totals. It's also too early in the season to project records, lets see how things look there at the end of January.