How Bad Will They Be?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
Selig has said numerous times he wont change games played. That is where my point comes from. Go hump Brandon League.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
First, you claimed that all the records were based on 162, which was just ridiculous. You are now changing your point from history to Bud. Which is itself mostly moot, because Bud Selig is retiring in 2012.
I don't expect them to change it either, but I don't think either of those reasons are why.
I don't expect them to change it either, but I don't think either of those reasons are why.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
Modern_epic wrote:First, you claimed that all the records were based on 162, which was just ridiculous. You are now changing your point from history to Bud. Which is itself mostly moot, because Bud Selig is retiring in 2012.
I don't expect them to change it either, but I don't think either of those reasons are why.
I never indicated that ALL records were based on 162. But that since the league has played 162 games since 1961 that it wouldnt be fair to current records - making them even harder to be broken and not on the same playing field. Much like I dont think that 162 game season records should replace 154 game season records.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
OldNo7 wrote:Modern_epic wrote:First, you claimed that all the records were based on 162, which was just ridiculous. You are now changing your point from history to Bud. Which is itself mostly moot, because Bud Selig is retiring in 2012.
I don't expect them to change it either, but I don't think either of those reasons are why.
I never indicated that ALL records were based on 162. But that since the league has played 162 games since 1961 that it wouldnt be fair to current records - making them even harder to be broken and not on the same playing field. Much like I dont think that 162 game season records should replace 154 game season records.
You were certainly implying it. To draw any other conclusion from your post would require superhuman reading skills.
And sure, this is all true. It also all has no bearing on how long the schedule will be in the future. Don't believe me? See 1961/1962.
Re: How Bad Will They Be?
- J-Roc
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
The history of the game and records are important. So important that to make a change it would have to be for an important reason. And I'm telling you, when MLB has to decide between losing teams or losing a few games off the regular season, they'll choose to cut back the games.
It's a different world we live in. Not the old days where fans have nothing to do but cheer for their one team. A generation of video game fans want instant satisfaction and want wins. In the playoffs, when it matters.
It's a different world we live in. Not the old days where fans have nothing to do but cheer for their one team. A generation of video game fans want instant satisfaction and want wins. In the playoffs, when it matters.
Re: How Bad Will They Be?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
chocolateSensi wrote:cosmostein wrote:J-Roc wrote:They'll be bad. More importantly, who will tune in? People say they used to go down to see Roy pitch. But from the seats you can't really see much. What you did know was that the Jays had a pretty good chance of winning that night. Now, not so much.
This rebuild could take years. I see the Jays losing viewers by the boatload. Then if they ever get back to respectability we'll see what fans are left. If the system in baseball doesn't change, I see the Jays folding. This market will not support a team like the KC Royals, where fans know before every season their team has no chance.
I am with you.
I used to go to 20-30 games a season, and the season after we signed AJ & BJ, and traded for Glaus and Overbay actually was the offseason that won me back after the world series being canned because of labour hijinx.
Then I watched the wheels fall off ever so slowly, and now we are walking into a season where we know we will be bad, if not downright terrible.
In an era where I can watch any team in the league any night they are playing from my living room why would I waste my time or entertainment dollar on mediocrity?
And that is coming from a baseball fan, how are the Jays suppose to attract a fanbase with that roster?
If you're a baseball fan I don't see why you wouldn't come out to at least a few games next year. You don't need to be a purist to enjoy live big league ball. To be honest the Rogers Centre is a pretty unfulfilling venue, but I still generally had a good time when I went out to games last year when we were well out of the playoff hunt, even on games when Doc wasn't starting.
Because I have seen this movie already,
Management pleads patience while General Manager X undoes what General Manager Y did and passes off three or four seasons of terrible baseball as "rebuilding time" then when we get to the stage where we are "built" we find that while we are a "good" team we don't have the means, management intelligence or the resources to add the parts that we need to become a "great" team.
And lets face it, in the AL East you need to be a great team.
The reality is unless ownership wants to pony up the green, "rebuilding" is an excuse to charge the same prices and cart out a payroll lower then it was the season prior.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
OldNo7 wrote:True fans wont be discouraged to see the club. They know that the franchise needs to go in this direction to be better for the future. Much like Leaf fans know the team had to suck and get a couple early picks and ditch some veterans to get better.
I think, though they may stink, the team will be fun to watch. There some be ample young guys this year and it will be fun to watch them progress, and play their asses off trying to earn jobs for the remainder of the season/next season.
Ah yes the "True Fan" argument.
The problem is that "True Fans" are the reason the Leafs are terrible. You pay for a bad product and give management no real motivation to improve the product. The Leafs are bad, and they wouldn't benefit from being bad because they don't have first round picks for either of the next two seasons.
We can argue all we want, but the reality is the Leafs have played to a sold out building and sold a ton of jersey's yet have not seen the Cup Finals in 41 seasons.
The Jays have the fourth longest playoff drought in MLB, keeping wonderful company with the Nats, Royals, and Pirates.
And the most exciting season since resulted in us finishing second in the AL East, out of the Wild Card race.
I don't doubt there will be some moments of excitement as I am sure a young guy or so will exceed expectations, however we will be a bad team this season, and a bad team next season.
Perhaps that makes me an "untrue" fan, however I don't feel the need to watch mediocrity passed off as anything other then Rogers cutting salary under the cloak of "rebuilding". If our kids turn out well and Rogers kicks up the budget and allows AA to make the moves to surround that young core then I will be right back at the Rogers Center,
But I have my doubts.
Re: How Bad Will They Be?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
I think they'll be pretty bad in the W-L column, but I think they'll still be competitive on most nights. I'll probably go to a few games here and there in the summer and tune in until the all star break. Not sure if I'll still be interested after that.
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- youngLion
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I doubt that I'll go to more than a couple of games, but I'll definitely try to make it to the Dome if Doc is slated to start when the Phils are in town.

Re: How Bad Will They Be?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
Perhaps that makes me an "untrue" fan, however I don't feel the need to watch mediocrity passed off as anything other then Rogers cutting salary under the cloak of "rebuilding". If our kids turn out well and Rogers kicks up the budget and allows AA to make the moves to surround that young core then I will be right back at the Rogers Center.
I don't think you can argue that Rogers is just doing this to cut salary, given that they have shelled out some ridiculous amount (close to $15m, I believe) in the Rolen and Halladay trades to ensure that we got the best return. If penny-pinching was their ultimate goal, they take the lesser return and count their dollars.

**** your asterisk.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
Schadenfreude wrote:Perhaps that makes me an "untrue" fan, however I don't feel the need to watch mediocrity passed off as anything other then Rogers cutting salary under the cloak of "rebuilding". If our kids turn out well and Rogers kicks up the budget and allows AA to make the moves to surround that young core then I will be right back at the Rogers Center.
I don't think you can argue that Rogers is just doing this to cut salary, given that they have shelled out some ridiculous amount (close to $15m, I believe) in the Rolen and Halladay trades to ensure that we got the best return. If penny-pinching was their ultimate goal, they take the lesser return and count their dollars.
I'm not arguing that this is the sole reason for the "rebuild" but I lack the faith that if and when we get to a point where our rebuild has become a "build" and our kids are shaping into form that Rogers will take the savings they have enjoyed over these lower salary rebuilding seasons and invest it in the pieces we need to truly take it to the next level.
I want to be wrong, but I just don't see it.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
Do you mean since Ted died and the new group has taken over? Because it wasnt that long ago that they thought they were ready to compete and they upped the payroll to over $90mil and we spent big bucks on AJ and BJ in free agency.
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
OldNo7 wrote:Do you mean since Ted died and the new group has taken over? Because it wasnt that long ago that they thought they were ready to compete and they upped the payroll to over $90mil and we spent big bucks on AJ and BJ in free agency.
I firmly believe that Ted was the baseball guy within Rogers,
Because we went from having the bucks to not.
Even when Ted was behind the Jay's while our payroll was big and we were making a splash was that sort of payroll enough to contend in the AL East?
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Re: How Bad Will They Be?
I'm not going to worry about how much Rogers will shell out in three years any more than I worry about whether MLSE will pay luxury tax to keep a contender together. It's too far fetched to contemplate.
On the Jays, they will probably be bottom feeders next year, but this much seems likely: They will have a bit of identity based on line-drive power hitting coupled with lots and lots of heat from the starting pitching (especially after Drabek arrives). They will strike out a lot, and strike out a lot of opponents and walk quite a few. They will not be especially fast, and their catchers won't throw out a lot of runners.
On the Jays, they will probably be bottom feeders next year, but this much seems likely: They will have a bit of identity based on line-drive power hitting coupled with lots and lots of heat from the starting pitching (especially after Drabek arrives). They will strike out a lot, and strike out a lot of opponents and walk quite a few. They will not be especially fast, and their catchers won't throw out a lot of runners.
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