IND - MIN

[shrink]

I got up early, and had some trade ideas you guy might like to discuss.

Eitanr started an interesting thread on Danny Granger that you might want to read

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=969916

What an interesting discussion! I think both sides have made terrific points.

I agree with eitanr, that living in the middle of the pack is the absolute worst place a team can be. You don't do well enough to generate profits (and IND had some of the worst), and you don't do poorly enough to get a good lottery pick that can get fans excited about future wins.

Milsap and the NYK is the wrong way to do this deal though. Milsap is a very good -- not potentially great -- PF, and the Knicks pick may fall midpack itself. A trade of Granger, IND's #1 guy and the main reason the few Pacer fans in the arena still buy tickets, needs to:

1. Take some talent, but overpaid players, to insure losses
2. Add a player who can excite fans
3. That player should be as early on a rookie deal (or a lottery pick) as possible. Murphy's already got a contract

If the Pacers were going to trade Granger, I think it'd be something more like:

IND SENDS: Danny Granger + TJ Ford

MIN SENDS: Jonny Flynn + expirings + UTA protected 1st.

Flynn works better because he fits the criteria better. IND probably gets bad enough to get a lottery pick this year, and they cut $15 mil from their payroll this summer, which probably dips them under $50 mil. They get out from TJ Ford's contract, and they the right position with a young player to add to their core.

MIN does this because they add the SF they need, and TJ Ford's two year contract fit with Rubio coming over. It costs them their raw cap space in the exciting 2010, but Granger is a good enough player to justify it, and he's locked in for several year in icy MIN.

[Casperkid23]

I think that's far too little for Indiana for Granger, especially considering the seemingly realistic UTA trade proposed is itself too little for him in my opinion.

If they're trying to rebuild, I don't know if Minnesota is a good trading partner since they can't offer up their own pick until the night of the draft, and the CHA/UTA picks are protected in the range that Indiana would want them. Flynn fits Indiana, for sure, but then after that Al would be the next player they want, and that's where the trade kind of gets jumbled up. Flynn and Al for Ford and Granger doesn't really solve the mediocrity thing eitanr was talking about; and Minnesota would want more than Granger for those two.

That's my take at least. If Indiana goes for the trade you suggested, I do it without question. Throwing in CHA, Pekovic, and Brewer/Gomes I still do it.

[Dewey]

I do that deal in a second - no questions asked.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Wall for Granger and Hibbert?

Indy rebuilds around Wall and capspace in 2011

Wolves add wing scorer and big center they need.

[Foye]

I don't think Wall would be worth more than Granger. Granger has proven himself in the nba as a stud so you won't get more than that for Wall.

[john2jer]

Not enough for Granger, but if Indy would do that, I'd give Flynn a piggyback ride to the Hoosier state.

[shrink]

Wall is worth more than Granger.

Wall would get national media and national games. I think the casual basketball fan can't even recognize Granger.

[NewWolvesOrder]

I don't think Wall would be worth more than Granger. Granger has proven himself in the nba as a stud so you won't get more than that for Wall.

Pacers are struggling financially so absorbing all those millions may help, plus Wall is a superstar prospect that will make a lot of buzz around the franchise, Granger is boederline allstar who has no chance of taking them anywhere by himself, but here he can create a very good core combined with Al, Love and whoever Kahn chooses as our future pg.

[shrink]

Since so many Pacerfans are calling me an under-bidding SOB, let me make the same case here:

The Pacers are stuck in the middle next year, and need to rebuild. If they stay with what they've got, they have:

Granger + TJ Ford + 2010 IND teens pick + 2011 IND teens pick

Is that a better rebuilding plan than my trade?

2009 Lottery pick (Flynn) + 2010 IND lottery pick + 2011 IND lottery pick + UTA pick (mid-late) + $23 mil in cash?


Eitanr was getting savaged about talking about being in the middle, but MIN fans know the feeling really well. We had too much money spent for financial help, and we kept making the play-offs, so we weren't getting help from the lottery (even if we hadn't lost some of our picks). I think IND is in the same boat. I know everyone says a star is untradable, especially if he is young. But how long does he maintain high value if the Pacers don't have access to talent to put around him for a long time?

[Casperkid23]

Since so many Pacerfans are calling me an under-bidding SOB, let me make the same case here:

The Pacers are stuck in the middle next year, and need to rebuild. If they stay with what they've got, they have:

Granger + TJ Ford + 2010 IND teens pick + 2011 IND teens pick

Is that a better rebuilding plan than my trade?

2009 Lottery pick (Flynn) + 2010 IND lottery pick + 2011 IND lottery pick + UTA pick (mid-late) + $23 mil in cash?


Eitanr was getting savaged about talking about being in the middle, but MIN fans know the feeling really well. We had too much money spent for financial help, and we kept making the play-offs, so we weren't getting help from the lottery (even if we hadn't lost some of our picks). I think IND is in the same boat. I know everyone says a star is untradable, especially if he is young. But how long does he maintain high value if the Pacers don't have access to talent to put around him for a long time?

They are stuck in a difficult spot, but that doesn't mean they trade Granger for an offer that only gives them a young, all-offense PG, and a pick in the early 20s.

Surrounding Granger with Finals-level talent will be difficult, for sure, but I think most of them would far rather attempt to surround him in 2011 than to cut ties with him to begin anew in 2010. But, if they were to eschew the potentially painful process and just start over now, I think they would want much more from Minnesota.

I'd take the Granger option, because that pick could easily be in the 7-10 range, with a relatively small chance that it's in the mid-teens. Them finding their next Granger could be more painful than potentially wallowing in mediocrity for the length of his career in Indiana.