The Great Midwest

[kingly222]

I had a conversation yesterday with a family member about how most Twolves fans consider Kevin Love the best player on the team. His reply was "Its the great midwest what do you expect?". I didnt understand what he meant so I asked him to explain.

His theory is that people in that area prefer there black athletes to be like a caged beast ala king kong. And if he doesn't act like that then they prefer a white athlete with similar characteristics and a similar game. He tried to use examples of how Garnett acted and a guy like Kirby Puckett.

I don't agree with him, but what do the fans think?

[NewWolvesOrder]

I live in Brooklyn, never was in midwest, but for some strange reason Love>Al for me.

[kingly222]

How did you become a twolves fan?

[deeney0]

Kevin Garnett. Kirby Pucket. Cris Carter. Adrian Peterson. Alan Page. John Randall. Carl Eller. Mychal Thompson. Rod Carew. Torii Hunter. Dennis Green. Clem Haskins. Tubby Smith.

A more diverse list of personalities you will not find. The only similarities are that they were sports personalities in the Twin Cities, they were great at their craft, they were beloved for being great, and they weren't white.

[kingly222]

Kevin Garnett. Kirby Pucket. Cris Carter. Adrian Peterson. Alan Page. John Randall. Carl Eller. Mychal Thompson. Rod Carew. Torii Hunter. Dennis Green. Clem Haskins. Tubby Smith.

A more diverse list of personalities you will not find. The only similarities are that they were sports personalities in the Twin Cities, they were great at their craft, they were beloved for being great, and they weren't white.

I think he brought up Puckett bc according to him, ask who is the greatest twins player you will get more Killebrew than Puckett and pretty soon it will be Killebrew, Mauer,and Puckett. and not based on accomplishments.

[horaceworthy]

It has more to do with the impact Love has made since coming back from injury. Since his return he's been the best rebounder in the NBA, shot 53% from beyond the arc, shown excellent passing ability, and the team as a whole is playing much better (2-16 before Love's return, 4-8 since). Al's also had a slow start coming back from injury, which is to be expected. Love's been better than Al this year (although he hasn't been as good as Al was just before Jefferson went down last year). It doesn't have to do with skin color, just how things have gone on the court so far this year.

There is a bit of a "Great Midwest" element to some MN sports fans, but I don't think it's as big a part of things as your family member seems to think. Randy Moss didn't act like either KG or Kirby, but he's beloved by most Viking fans.

If an athlete's great, most of us will get behind him. If he gets in trouble off the field/court, some will rip him.

[horaceworthy]

Kevin Garnett. Kirby Pucket. Cris Carter. Adrian Peterson. Alan Page. John Randall. Carl Eller. Mychal Thompson. Rod Carew. Torii Hunter. Dennis Green. Clem Haskins. Tubby Smith.

A more diverse list of personalities you will not find. The only similarities are that they were sports personalities in the Twin Cities, they were great at their craft, they were beloved for being great, and they weren't white.

I think he brought up Puckett bc according to him, ask who is the greatest twins player you will get more Killebrew than Puckett and pretty soon it will be Killebrew, Mauer,and Puckett. and not based on accomplishments.

You might get Killebrew from some older fans, but most will say Puckett. Puckett became the most beloved Twin of all time, and did so with Kent Hrbek, a gregarious, likable local boy who was also a hell of a first baseman, on the team.

Mauer will likely eventually become known as the greatest Twin of all time (if he doesn't bolt for greener pastures), but to be fair, he's a local boy that has a chance to down as one of, if not the, greatest catcher of all time.

[kingly222]

Thanks horace your post makes alot of sense.

[Calinks]

LOL. Not really. People just love great players like anywhere else. Some people are going to be biased because of race, sport, position or whatever but that's just how it is. For the most part, a great player is a great player is a great player. I cant speak for all the midwest, I can't speak for every person but from what I have seen we have liked black athletes of all personality types as long as they were great players.

Even the most biased usually come around when it comes to sports. I remember watching this story of this laker player who moved into this white neighborhood. When he moved in the neighbors were freaking out. They had like a neighborhood meeting or something and they were incredibly prejudice and didn't want him there. Then one of them found out he played for the Laker. Suddenly he was A-Ok. LOL, now that's all kinds of jacked up but if that prejudice neighborhood could come around (albeit only because he won games and entertained them) then I doubt anyone today will have some serious problems getting the fans attention.

Love has been playing at a phenominal level for a second year player and he has been playing really good team ball. Al Jefferson or Jonny Flynn have been playing well as of late two but Jonny has had his share of issues and is young. Al is not 100 percent and playing next to Love all of his negative traits are highlighted.

It's easy for people to be excited over Love and what he is doing and conversely look more negatively on Al because of whats happening on the floor. Sports are a what have you done for me lately kind of gig and when a player isn't producing well people are apt to focus on that then what they have or can do.

Right now when you watch them play, Love, compared to all other players who get major minutes, doesn't hurt the team with anything he does very often. When Flynn isn't moving the ball well, he hurts the team. If Al isn't scoring well and he doesn't move the ball to other players, it hurts the team. Love always moves the ball.

Now when Al is coring at a high rate again and killing people down low he will only hurt the team in small doses by not passing the ball. Right now, it just stands out a lot more. To Al's credit he has been making a much better effort to get the ball out as of late.

I also think the majority of casual wolves fans don't even have Love really on their radar. Everybody who casually follows the wolves knows Al Jefferson but some people are just like "Love? He's alright." Regardless of how many other good things Love does, people Love great scorers and if Al comes back scoring 25+ points on a regular basis, plenty of people will still hold him in high regard.

[Calinks]

And yea, Puckett is a legend around here. He got damn streets named after him. I always thought KG would get one too if he won us that title. You also need to remember that the NFL and MLB have been here a lot longer than the NBA. Minnesota loves their Football and Baseball. Any good Twins player is going to be loved far more than any good wolves player unless that player is so charismatic that he can steal people's hearts like KG did. KG is the only wolves player that can even put put in the convo with Minnesota's most beloved athletes.

[deeney0]

I really hesitate to get into a Jefferson vs. Love discussion with our Big Al insider.

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Kevin Garnett fan than me. One of the reasons why I think Kevin Love is more valueable to the Timberwolves than Al Jefferson is because Kevin Love reminds me more of KG.

Two of the greatest things about KG were his tireless work in the offseason to improve and add to his game and the fact that he didn't need to ball to have a huge impact on the game. Love improved greatly this offseason - and we don't really see that with Al. He's still the best low post scorer in the NBA, but where has that gotten the Wolves? Where are the improvements to his game - passing out of double teams, getting to the line, defense - that will advance him from great to elite?

It's not that I don't think Al isn't good. It's not that I don't think Al isn't very good. I know in Al's three years with the team he's had three head coaches and more players starting next to him over that time frame than you can count on your fingers and your toes. But great players find ways to win. Kevin Love came back to a team playing .111 basketball and suddenly it's a .333 basketball team. That's a huge improvement. That's what has made the fans fall for him over the last three weeks.

[horaceworthy]

Thanks horace your post makes alot of sense.

No problem.

[Calinks]

Glad to see I'm not the only thinks Love reminds them of KG. I always saw KG is the ultimate engine to make a team go. He did all the little thing to help your team run efficiently. Love right now is very similar. He rebounds better than KG did (that's a huge feat) but he is nowhere near KG's level of defensive play/impact and scoring. He may be able to grow into those roles as time goes on. I think Love (more so than KG) though, will need dynamic scorers around him.

[kingly222]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion so thanks for sharing. Only now am I starting to see the reason Garnett asked to be traded.

[Calinks]

KG didn't really ask to be traded.

[Steve_Holiday]

One of KG's favorite pastimes is sucker-punching smaller, white players (Rick Rickert, Wally), and I will refrain from listing Kirby's post-baseball indiscretions. These two are/were hardly "caged animals."

Kirby brought the Twins two championships. KG made the Wolves worth watching for 10+ years. That's what most of us white, mid-western fans care about.

[horaceworthy]

I really hesitate to get into a Jefferson vs. Love discussion with our Big Al insider.

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Kevin Garnett fan than me. One of the reasons why I think Kevin Love is more valueable to the Timberwolves than Al Jefferson is because Kevin Love reminds me more of KG.

Two of the greatest things about KG were his tireless work in the offseason to improve and add to his game and the fact that he didn't need to ball to have a huge impact on the game. Love improved greatly this offseason - and we don't really see that with Al. He's still the best low post scorer in the NBA, but where has that gotten the Wolves? Where are the improvements to his game - passing out of double teams, getting to the line, defense - that will advance him from great to elite?

It's not that I don't think Al isn't good. It's not that I don't think Al isn't very good. I know in Al's three years with the team he's had three head coaches and more players starting next to him over that time frame than you can count on your fingers and your toes. But great players find ways to win. Kevin Love came back to a team playing .111 basketball and suddenly it's a .333 basketball team. That's a huge improvement. That's what has made the fans fall for him over the last three weeks.

To be fair, this past summer for Al had to be spent rehabbing, and he did come back in the best shape we've ever seen him in. I also thought that last year Al showed noticeable improvement in his jump shot than the year before. I can't speak to his years in Boston, but since joining the T-wolves Al's used one summer to improve a weakness in his game and the other to rehab from an ACL injury.

As for the Wolves improved record since Love came back, I think you're smart enough to realize that has more to do with the difference between Love and the Hollins/Pecherov/Jawai/Gomes at PF than it does with the difference between Love and Al.

[Calinks]

Yea, I mean. When a guy rips his ACL you can't really expect him to change his game over the summer. This is a freaking ACL injury. Some guys in the past didn't even come back from that. The fact that he was back for opening day is nothing short of remarkable. If people are hating on Al for that then... they just aren't thinking hard enough.

[slinky]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion so thanks for sharing. Only now am I starting to see the reason Garnett asked to be traded.

Care to elaborate?

Honestly, I think here in MN and (probably most everywhere) we embrace Love because he is an outspoken, young extrovert. Look at deeney's list of players. Most have an eccentric quality to them.

I think Jefferson is the better player, and you always here that he is one of the funniest guys on the team, but you never see that from Jefferson. He is much quieter and seems to keep to himself more, at least through the media. And I dont have any problem with that as long as Jefferson is cool with that. Some people want to be in the spotlight others dont. Does Al Jeff have a twitter account?

Jefferson just wants to go about his business. But I do think Jefferson is loved here in MN too, by default he was the guy we all wanted to hang our hats on because of the KG deal. He accepted less than market money to stay here, and he works hard. Maybe to the casual wolves fan they dont really see that, but I think many on this board are huge Al Jeff fans.

Now speaking of this board, most here would probably trade Al Jeff before Love. And I dont think its a black or white thing or even that Kevin Love is better than Al Jeff. I think if you look at the current offense as its being run, and the amount of money Al is being payed to play on a 6 win team. It probably makes sense to stick with the younger, cheaper guy who just happens to be white.

[Steve_Holiday]

Love improved greatly this offseason - and we don't really see that with Al.

To be fair, this past summer for Al had to be spent rehabbing, and he did come back in the best shape we've ever seen him in. I also thought that last year Al showed noticeable improvement in his jump shot than the year before.

Exactly.

Al's conditioning and early return from injury speak volumes about his work ethic, despite the fact that he isn't at 23-11 right now.