TA as a stopper

LongTimeFan · Post #1 » by **LongTimeFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:58 pm

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809BOS.HTM

I'm coming around to TA having possibly a serious role on this team, as Tommy says, a defensive stopper. He's been doing better and better. His defensive PER is in the 10's, which is very, very good. As a trading chip, he's a lot better than Jiri Welsh ever was.

If he can contiue to play like this and avoid a self-inflicted bonehead injury, his value will only go up. That's the risk and the longer he plays as a mature veteran, the less the risk to us if we keep him, or another team if they trade for him. (Indiana should have taken him when they had the chance.)

Hemingway · Post #2 » by **Hemingway** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Hes just gonna break your heart!

GuyClinch · Post #3 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:02 pm

No such thing as a stopper at the NBA level. I said that about Rondo and I say it about TA. It doesn't really matter - even if you play perfect defense your not going to get a call on Kobe or Lebron. No one at the NBA level stops anyone. TA is one of the better defenders in the NBA (and better then Rondo IMHO as he is much stronger and has more height) but its not enough.

captain green · Post #4 » by **captain green** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:05 pm

yeah defense stopper completely got juked and went flying to leave a man open for that 3 pt tie shot last night.

Hemingway · Post #5 » by **Hemingway** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:37 pm

tony does really put in the effort on D (that alone seems to put you above half the league.) You can see why we always wished he could play point, he would match up well against PGs of the league. He is still too short to guard some 3s.

ryaningf · Post #6 » by **ryaningf** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:27 pm

captain green wrote:yeah defense stopper completely got juked and went flying to leave a man open for that 3 pt tie shot last night.

Yeah, but up to that point he was pitching a defensive shutout; that is, no one had scored on him all night (and no one did after that shot either). He had two HUGE steals in the 4th quarter, converting one for a layup in transition. Doc should have moved him over onto Gordon or Davis earlier in the game, and maybe those 2 wouldn't have combined for 39 points against Rondo and Ray. And he should have been covering Davis on that last play too. His length and ups probably would have bothered the shot--you know he would have left his feet at least.

I agree with the OP, TA could be a stopper, though I also agree with Pete in the sense that they're aren't really any stoppers due to the rule changes outlawing hand checking.

But, as I said a couple games back, TA's turned a corner and he's doing his role to an unprecedented level in the Big 3 era. This is his time and provided he can stay healthy he's carved out a nice role for himself this season. Once Daniels gets back, I hope Doc has the courage to sit House and let TA/Daniels shutdown things at the 2/3, with either Ray/Rondo/Paul playing the other guard/forward position. This is a defensive team first and TA will continue to get big minutes as long as he plays the kind of defense he's displaying right now.

ryaningf · Post #7 » by **ryaningf** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:32 pm

Hemingway wrote:tony does really put in the effort on D (that alone seems to put you above half the league.) You can see why we always wished he could play point, he would match up well against PGs of the league. He is still too short to guard some 3s.

True, some 3s have too much height and ups and can shot over him with ease. That said, I think he can guard most 3s, especially reserve 3s. He shutdown Thornton last night and it wasn't even close.

Missed in this discussion of TA's defense is the rebounding prowess he showed last night, recording his first ever double double (with 10 points and 10 rebounds). TA has a classic small forward's game (before small forwards added 3 point range) in a shooting guard's body. We should be doing more to feature TA in the post, especially against weaklings like Eric Gordon. I'd love to see TA do some post work against Golden State tonight--Monta Ellis or Curry will be dead meat.

return2glory · Post #8 » by **return2glory** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:40 pm

TA completely shut down Al Thornton in the Clippers game and made 2 huge steals in the final 2 minutes of the game. One of them was a coast to coast basket. TA also led the team in rebounding with 10.

return2glory · Post #9 » by **return2glory** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:41 pm

Hemingway wrote:tony does really put in the effort on D (that alone seems to put you above half the league.) You can see why we always wished he could play point, he would match up well against PGs of the league. He is still too short to guard some 3s.

Watch the Clippers game as painful as it was. TA shut down a 6'8 offensive player in Al Thorton. Thornton only scored 2 points in entire game.

LongTimeFan · Post #10 » by **LongTimeFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:08 pm

Long term, I think Tony wants to move on. A shrewd GM could get him for about 80 to 90 cents on the dollar. Bird must be kicking himself for giving him away.

There must be plenty of teams that could use his skill set to balance a flashy player how doesn't play defense. And there are plenty of those in the NBA. When Pierce comes back, TA is going back to being a role player.

SichtingLives · Post #11 » by **SichtingLives** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:12 pm

captain green wrote:yeah defense stopper completely got juked and went flying to leave a man open for that 3 pt tie shot last night.

Yeah he was on the bench hater, go back to sleep.

Cyclical · Post #12 » by **Cyclical** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:27 pm

TA has always been our best wing defender. Pretty much since his 2nd year in the league, after he got schooled by Reggie Miller in his first playoffs. Defense was never his problem. TA's problems have been focus on offense and injuries. He definitely IS a stopper, as far as most wings are concerned, and a big irritator for all-star wings.

He may have given away a single shot last night but I don't think Baron scores if he was on him. Btw, Ray shouldn't have been in the lineup at the end. He stood 3 feet away from Baron and Rondo, doing nothing - no roll.

Kids Are Alright · Post #13 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:10 pm

Baby's a bit of a stopper as well, depending on the matchup. Add Pierce and Daniels and we're deep everywhere except the 1 position, and that's a BIG problem.

I think Ray Allen and Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace are jacking too many shots that aren't falling. We need perimeter guys to keep the middle open for the likes of Pierce, Daniels, Baby and Tony Allen, but they've got to kick the ball back in to the middle too. Especially Wallace.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #14 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:18 pm

DunkOnFace wrote:
captain green wrote:yeah defense stopper completely got juked and went flying to leave a man open for that 3 pt tie shot last night.

Yeah he was on the bench hater, go back to sleep.

Ahum...I don't get the hate for TA..yeah he makes stupid TO's, but to blame him for a play where he wasn't even on the court is just..wow... :noway:

Captain_Caveman · Post #15 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:30 am

Add mine to the list of LOLs for blaming TA on a play that he wasn't even on the floor for.

And I don't even like TA.

It was just a dumb sub by Doc.

Kids Are Alright · Post #16 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:42 am

On a team that plainly lacks athleticism and offensive boards, how can you not be a supporter of TA getting minutes?

So what if three of his offensive boards were on his own misses.

3pt % · Post #17 » by **3pt %** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:40 am

its all about the health for TA... we have all been here before, usually twice.

If he stays healthy, he adds tenacious D and athleticism (with a few dumb plays to raise the blood pressure). If healthy. he is one of the better defenders in the L. While it is impossible to really shut anyone down, it is obviously to the Celtics advantage if an opposition player has to work harder for their points and are less efficient.

If..if..if..if..

Post #18 » by **Slartibartfast** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:05 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:Add mine to the list of LOLs for blaming TA on a play that he wasn't even on the floor for.

And I don't even like TA.

It was just a dumb sub by Doc.

TA did have a flyby earlier in the game on Davis. You're thinking of the Rasual Butler 3, which was partly Ray's fault (although KGs overplay on the pick and roll gave Davis a straight shot to the hoop).

Overall I've loved what TA has brought to the table in the past two games without Paul, but the Rondo-TA-Perk trio sucks the spacing out of the gym, especially when KG/Sheed and Ray aren't shooting very well, as was the case last night.

Jammer · Post #19 » by **Jammer** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:03 am

Tony kills the bottom 10 teams,

does pretty good against the middle 10,

and in general, doesn't do so hot against the better teams.

He'll break your heart in the playoffs,
since the past two years he was a complete non-factor,
although his regular season numbers were impressive in both 2008 and 2009.

Kids Are Alright · Post #20 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:48 pm

Jam,

two years ago tony had a great game against the Lakers
now, Bynum was hurt, but not a bad team nonetheless
and I think Tony was basically unavailable for the last two playoffs
someone tell me I'm wrong about that
he'll break our hearts by getting injured if history is any indication