MIN - NOH .. get under the lux

[shrink]

MIN GETS: MoPete + NOH 1st + Armstrong + Devin Brown + Marks + Diogu ($11,552,004)

NOH GETS: Cardinal + Opec + Hart ($9,123,137)

NOH saves $2.43 + Hart's waive 0.83 = $3.26 mil. The Hornets are $3.09 mil over the lux, so they save:

3.26 payroll
3.09 lux tax savings
4.65 lux share
$11.0 mil savings in 2009-10
$12.8 mil savings in 2010-11 $6.4 MoPete + $6.4 mil in lux taxes
$23.8 mil in total savings.

MIN may not want to do this, even for a late lottery pick.

The deal costs them $2.43 this year, and $6.4 mil next season + $2? for the pick = $10.8 mil. Worse, the $8.4 mil next year isn't just cash or payroll, its raw cap space.

NOH may be willing to up its offer for $24 mil of desperately needed savings.

[Krapinsky]

We would have to get Thornton too. Then I would make sure Sasha goes out, since they'll need wing players anyway.

[shrink]

We would have to get Thornton too. Then I would make sure Sasha goes out, since they'll need wing players anyway.

I worked on other attempts as well, breaking Cardinal into Wilkins + Sasha + ?? but could never seem to get the cap to work right. I'll give it some more oomph.

Also, the Hornets need to add more players to increase the total salary, so they can get the 125% TPE big enough to get them under the lux, but since these players are all cheap, they begin to run into roster minimum problems. Its a squeeze.

[moss_is_1]

I really don't see anything that valuable aside from the pick. Armstrong blows, and Diogu is a guy who I think would be good if he got minutes, but Brown is only okay and Marks is scrubtaculor while Mo-Pete is trash...

[john2jer]

Not enough incentive for the Wolves to take on 2010 salary.

Hornets get: OPEC, Sasha, Hart, and Jawaii ($4,609,557)
Wolves get: Armstrong, Brown, Diogu, and Marks ($5,559,764)

Plus the Hornets can cut Hart, meaning that's $1.7mil in savings, so more than halfway there, doubled for lux it's $3.4mil. Doesn't get them all the way, but it means the Wolves don't have to take on MoPete's contract.

Or you could just make it Damien Wilkins and Jason Hart, and that's $4,455,497 going to the Hornets, so 150k more in savings. Wolves would have to cut probably Trasha and either Opec, Blount, or Jawaii to get under the roster limit.

[shrink]

Not enough incentive for the Wolves to take on 2010 salary.

Hornets get: OPEC, Sasha, Hart, and Jawaii ($4,609,557)
Wolves get: Armstrong, Brown, Diogu, and Marks ($5,559,764)

Plus the Hornets can cut Hart, meaning that's $1.7mil in savings, so more than halfway there, doubled for lux it's $3.4mil. Doesn't get them all the way, but it means the Wolves don't have to take on MoPete's contract.

Or you could just make it Damien Wilkins and Jason Hart, and that's $4,455,497 going to the Hornets, so 150k more in savings. Wolves would have to cut probably Trasha and either Opec, Blount, or Jawaii to get under the roster limit.

That's nice. Need to swing Brown to a third team, but that wouldn't be a problem.

NOH is size challenged, with Armstrong as their only 7-footer, so if he comes out, I like OPec coming back in.

I wonder if we could do this deal with Wilkins, and include a UTA 1st for NOH 1st (top 3 protected) swap, rather than take back cash as an incentive? NOH may not enjoy the cap hold next year anyway, and UTA's chance at being deferred if they deal Boozer might be appealing.

[shrink]

We can cut salary from them, but they have so much money locked up into non-expirings, the only real way we could get them under the lux would be to take on a 2-year deal. That's the big savings, because that share of the lux pot is over $4.5 mil right now, plus 2x the salary decrease to get to the lux.

The above deal I like with the pick/swap, and it might be something NOH feels it can do. Perhaps if they are within $1.7 mil, they could trade a guy + cash for a TPE.

[shrink]

And I sooooo wish we didn't just cut Chucky Atkins.

One of the worst moves I have seen from the wolves, and that's sayinging something.

[Dr Positivity]

Not enough incentive for the Wolves to take on 2010 salary.

Hornets get: OPEC, Sasha, Hart, and Jawaii ($4,609,557)
Wolves get: Armstrong, Brown, Diogu, and Marks ($5,559,764)

Plus the Hornets can cut Hart, meaning that's $1.7mil in savings, so more than halfway there, doubled for lux it's $3.4mil. Doesn't get them all the way, but it means the Wolves don't have to take on MoPete's contract.

Or you could just make it Damien Wilkins and Jason Hart, and that's $4,455,497 going to the Hornets, so 150k more in savings. Wolves would have to cut probably Trasha and either Opec, Blount, or Jawaii to get under the roster limit.

Huh, I`d say getting a 12-14 pick in this draft in a salary dump is pretty damn good. Hornets fans would be freakin out about doing this. Its more likely they give away Julian Wright instead of the pick in this deal

Lets be honest the Wolves wont be using much of their capspace this summer. Its a less than lucrative market and you guys are losing money anyways

[shrink]

Have you seen Julian Wright's numbers this year?

What happened to that guy?

[funkatron101]

Sean Marks.

[Casperkid23]

He doesn't fit NO. Probably wouldn't fit here either seeing that the Timberwolves need shooters more than defenders/slashers.

Too much cap being given up in 2010 for such little value. I like the NO-UTA pick swap on top of saving them ~4mil this year, but no change in 2010.

[Krapinsky]

Have you seen Julian Wright's numbers this year?

What happened to that guy?

He's always been a 4, that they've tried, stubbornly, making into a 3.

[john2jer]

Not enough incentive for the Wolves to take on 2010 salary.

Hornets get: OPEC, Sasha, Hart, and Jawaii ($4,609,557)
Wolves get: Armstrong, Brown, Diogu, and Marks ($5,559,764)

Plus the Hornets can cut Hart, meaning that's $1.7mil in savings, so more than halfway there, doubled for lux it's $3.4mil. Doesn't get them all the way, but it means the Wolves don't have to take on MoPete's contract.

Or you could just make it Damien Wilkins and Jason Hart, and that's $4,455,497 going to the Hornets, so 150k more in savings. Wolves would have to cut probably Trasha and either Opec, Blount, or Jawaii to get under the roster limit.

Huh, I`d say getting a 12-14 pick in this draft in a salary dump is pretty damn good. Hornets fans would be freakin out about doing this. Its more likely they give away Julian Wright instead of the pick in this deal

Lets be honest the Wolves wont be using much of their capspace this summer. Its a less than lucrative market and you guys are losing money anyways

Paying $8.6mil for a mid-1st is not a smart move. Especially when $6.2mil comes out of raw cap space. ESPECIALLY when we already have 3 draft picks. Why do we need to pay so much for a 4th one?

Let's be honest, you're a moron. Especially since you clearly don't understand the value of cap space beyond free agency.

[Foye]

And I sooooo wish we didn't just cut Chucky Atkins.

One of the worst moves I have seen from the wolves, and that's sayinging something.

I think Kahn had to do this. Every player should be given the opportunity to play and it was clear Atkins wouldn't play here with Sessions and Flynn and we saved some $.

[john2jer]

Sean Marks.

Definitely Sean Marks.

[slinky]

I think Kahn had to do this. Every player should be given the opportunity to play and it was clear Atkins wouldn't play here with Sessions and Flynn and we saved some $.

And yet we have kept Jason Hart and havent even let Mark Blount get a parking spot yet at the Target Center...

[Dr Positivity]

Not enough incentive for the Wolves to take on 2010 salary.

Hornets get: OPEC, Sasha, Hart, and Jawaii ($4,609,557)
Wolves get: Armstrong, Brown, Diogu, and Marks ($5,559,764)

Plus the Hornets can cut Hart, meaning that's $1.7mil in savings, so more than halfway there, doubled for lux it's $3.4mil. Doesn't get them all the way, but it means the Wolves don't have to take on MoPete's contract.

Or you could just make it Damien Wilkins and Jason Hart, and that's $4,455,497 going to the Hornets, so 150k more in savings. Wolves would have to cut probably Trasha and either Opec, Blount, or Jawaii to get under the roster limit.

Huh, I`d say getting a 12-14 pick in this draft in a salary dump is pretty damn good. Hornets fans would be freakin out about doing this. Its more likely they give away Julian Wright instead of the pick in this deal

Lets be honest the Wolves wont be using much of their capspace this summer. Its a less than lucrative market and you guys are losing money anyways

Paying $8.6mil for a mid-1st is not a smart move. Especially when $6.2mil comes out of raw cap space. ESPECIALLY when we already have 3 draft picks. Why do we need to pay so much for a 4th one?

Let's be honest, you're a moron. Especially since you clearly don't understand the value of cap space beyond free agency.

Sure you could pull and OKC and look to use it as a trade asset next year... except teams will be in better financial shape next year and the 2010 boom will be over, plus usually when a team`s looking to dump someone its because they have negative value.

OKC just used its capspace to get a 21st pick in a terrible draft in Maynor. A 12th to 14th pick in a strong draft and by next year when the league is not so ripe for salary dumps, is worth a lot more than that. Sure OKC isnt really done yet, if theyre lucky Kaman will be up for grabs, but who knows.

Should also point out that even after getting rid of 8 mil of capspace, you guys will still have like a 45 mil payroll or something next year along with more expirings (you have no 2010 expirings now)... that`s more than enough to use as a trade chip if needed, possibly packaged with the rookie from the Hornets pick to make up the difference

Theres definitely value in the sit and wait with capspace approach OKC has taken, but I dont know if Minny will turn it into anything better than a late lottery pick in this draft. Remember a lottery pick is in itself a very very valuable trade chip, Id say draft picks in general are overvalued on the open market, and Kahns strategy as GM so far has seemed to be to accumulate as much mass value as possible...

[john2jer]

Sure you could pull and OKC and look to use it as a trade asset next year... except teams will be in better financial shape next year and the 2010 boom will be over, plus usually when a team`s looking to dump someone its because they have negative value.

OKC just used its capspace to get a 21st pick in a terrible draft in Maynor. A 12th to 14th pick in a strong draft and by next year when the league is not so ripe for salary dumps, is worth a lot more than that. Sure OKC isnt really done yet, if theyre lucky Kaman will be up for grabs, but who knows.

Should also point out that even after getting rid of 8 mil of capspace, you guys will still have like a 45 mil payroll or something next year along with more expirings (you have no 2010 expirings now)... that`s more than enough to use as a trade chip if needed

Theres definitely value in the sit and wait with capspace approach OKC has taken, but I dont know if Minny will turn it into anything better than a late lottery pick in this draft. Remember a lottery pick is in itself a very very valuable trade chip, Id say draft picks in general are overvalued on the open market, and Kahns strategy as GM so far has seemed to be to accumulate as much mass value as possible...

I work for a Canadian company, so I usually can understand Toronto fans decently, but I'm going to assume you're French Canadian, because I'm left thinking, "huh?"

After getting rid of what $8mil? and $45mil?

We have plenty of 2010 expirings: Blount, Cardinal, Wilkins, OPec, Hart(currently), Sasha, and Jawaii, plus Gomes's unguaranteed deal.

Next year, before picks are added, our salary cap number is $35.17mil Counting draft picks and we're sitting around $41mil. So that's roughly $12-14mil in cap space.

Think back 2 years ago when the Wolves picked up Carney, Booth, and Utah's 1st round pick for nearly free, as the Sixers sent cash in the deal to cover salaries. There's going to be teams that are a hair away from having space to off the max, and will send out assets to get the space.

[slinky]

Should also point out that even after getting rid of 8 mil of capspace, you guys will still have like a 45 mil payroll or something next year along with more expirings (you have no 2010 expirings now)... that`s more than enough to use as a trade chip if needed, possibly packaged with the rookie from the Hornets pick to make up the difference

I just dont think this is true. I am assuming you are talking about taking on MoPete. So we take on him, possibly sign Pekovic, 4 cap holds on first round picks, plus count Rubio's cap hold during the offseason? I havent had time to look it up but I think that pretty much eats up all of our cap. In fact I bet we are over in that scenario. Unless I am missing something.

Quickly(and these are very conservative estimates, so please correct where I am wrong),
MoPete- 8mil
4 1sts- 9mil
Pekovic- 6mil
Rubio- 3mil
-----------------------
26 mil

Even Kahn thinks we will have 15-20 million in room. Now obviously we can go over the cap for a year or maybe we dont sign pekovic or he doesnt come over, but in general, I am not sure we can do everything we want to do here with that deal.