A little love for Tony

[Celts17Pride]

The haters don't dare comment in this thread. They are waiting for a bad game so they can jump on him <g>

I am one of the TA "haters" I suppose. Am I glad he's been playing better? Yes. Do I trust him to keep it up for the long term? Nope. Seen too much of all the bad stuff he's done over the years. He's going to have to continue to keep playing well over a much longer period of time to have me trust him.

Ditto.

Can TA play this way with 10-15 minutes in the playoffs? I'm not willing to go that far yet.

[Kids Are Alright]

The haters don't dare comment in this thread. They are waiting for a bad game so they can jump on him <g>

I am one of the TA "haters" I suppose. Am I glad he's been playing better? Yes. Do I trust him to keep it up for the long term? Nope. Seen too much of all the bad stuff he's done over the years. He's going to have to continue to keep playing well over a much longer period of time to have me trust him.

Course, it was against the worst D in the NBA

[GreenDreamer]

Nobody wants to lay into Tony? Alright, then I will.

He is a moron. That dunk late in the Toronto game proved that to me once and for all. That was an almost IDENTICAL dunk to the one where he blew his ACL out, right down to foolishly kicking his right leg out. The only real difference was that his left leg was bent instead of straight out on the landing. If it is straight out, he would have blown his knee out again. This guy has learned NOTHING.

Tony has always been trick or treat. So he's a real help now? Maybe in small doeses, but he wont be much of a help in the playoffs as a main rotation player. A guy you can throw out there on occasion to keep some defensive pressure on? Sure. A guy you RELY ON? Absolutely not. One of the MANY things which ha slipped under people's radar around here is his extraordinarily low BBIQ. There was a fastbreak, I think within the last minute of the Clipper game, where we had a three on one, and Tony (who as usual refused to give up the ball) single handledly ruined it. An automatic two points (he never saw Rondo on his left side because he was dribbling down the middle looking at Ray the whole time), and a potential kill shot thrown away. Would have turned a three point game into a five point game.

Running over Nash in the open floor on a two on one with Rondo. Remember that?

Seriously, forget about the FACT that Tony and Marquis cannot BOTH play on the floor together. The spacing would be an abomination. This guy finds ways to completely screw up the EASIEST plays in the game. No brainer decisions aren't being made by a guy who evidently does not have a brain.

You want a guy like that out there in the PLAYOFFS? Remember how "good" he was last playoffs, when he single handedly blew a game for us doing the SAME things? To me he's either an expiring contract, or a 10th man. I have NO edesire to rely on this guy going forward. None. Put that playoff pressure back on and Bad Tony will be the ONLY Tony.

[cfan79]

Thank you Mister Gloom and Doom. Who gives a sh*t how he dunked the ball, that's what basketball players do. Bottomline is that he's playing well right now. Don't be such a negative nancy.

[darrendaye]

^^^^^^^^
Wow. Why don't you do a similar analysis of Ray Allen handling the ball on a fast break? And, criticizing the slam against Toronto? Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming your point on that was that he should "learn" to land better on his dunks...... I suppose if one tries hard enough one could make an argument that a player can relearn habits formed over a lifetime and retrain his muscle memory, but it's an uphill climb for any athlete to accomplish.

On the general topic, if people choose to ignore all of the beneficial plays Tony Allen makes, even ones that go beyond the statline, to focus on the lapses of concentration that do rear their head more frequently than we would like, I can accept that even if I fail to understand it. If you question his character due to the nightclub shooting incident, that's certainly a valid reason for not wanting him on the team and prejudicing your opinion of him as a player, but at least admit it. But, IMO, this concept that in his current or ANY previous form he is not a decent rotational player, especially on a team that is so perimeter dominant offensively, is not rational.

Depending on him? Maybe not. But, then again, do you depend on Eddie House? Do you depend on Big Baby? Tony's a quality rotational player even if you choose to believe he is not a "key reserve."

[UGA Hayes]

^^^^^^^^
Wow. Why don't you do a similar analysis of Ray Allen handling the ball on a fast break? And, criticizing the slam against Toronto? Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming your point on that was that he should "learn" to land better on his dunks...... I suppose if one tries hard enough one could make an argument that a player can relearn habits formed over a lifetime and retrain his muscle memory, but it's an uphill climb for any athlete to accomplish.

On the general topic, if people choose to ignore all of the beneficial plays Tony Allen makes, even ones that go beyond the statline, to focus on the lapses of concentration that do rear their head more frequently than we would like, I can accept that even if I fail to understand it. If you question his character due to the nightclub shooting incident, that's certainly a valid reason for not wanting him on the team and prejudicing your opinion of him as a player, but at least admit it. But, IMO, this concept that in his current or ANY previous form he is not a decent rotational player, especially on a team that is so perimeter dominant offensively, is not rational.

Depending on him? Maybe not. But, then again, do you depend on Eddie House? Do you depend on Big Baby? Tony's a quality rotational player even if you choose to believe he is not a "key reserve."

Lol, I'll bite. Ray Allen is perhaps the only human being on earth who runs the fast break worse than Tony Allen. Anyway, I'm with the critical poster I would be ecstatic if we could build his trade value enough to get something worthwhile for him.

[ParticleMan]

Tony is one of those guys who makes things happen on the court. Good things AND bad things. That's the trouble. Some people just can't get past the bad things, no matter how much good TA does. Would you rather him be like JR, and basically be an invisible man? TA does NOT have a particularly low BBIQ. Maybe hes not KG, and he may have a low overall IQ but a guy with a low BBIQ does not consistently play to his strengths like TA. Also, he has a high enough IQ to be given the PG job when Rondo is down.

I think it's all about health with Tony. When he's fully healthy he plays with so much more confidence and abandon, and that's when he's at his best. I didn't mind the dunk AT ALL, because it showed he is playing with that kind of confidence now. When he does that, he is a real asset. When he's playing at 80%, he sucks, because he loses his single greatest asset, his aggressiveness.

I don't have a problem trusting him in the playoffs, so long as he's healthy and confident. And I also disagree that he and Quis can't play together. I definitely think they could, surrounded by jumpshooters (KG, Sheed, Ray for example).

[darrendaye]

PM, very well summed up.

[Scalamental]

I now crave to see the KG Sheed Quis' RA TA line up.

[return2glory]

I hated TA before this year but Im almost willing to admit I was wrong hes been a pleasant suprise so far

Props to you when you can admit you were wrong. Not many people here or anywhere else do that. To me, that's a great quality in a person.

[return2glory]

I now crave to see the KG Sheed Quis' RA TA line up.

That would be a nice lineup. What's great about this team is that when we are healthy, we have so many options to go with. Our top 10 players haven't been active in a game so far and it would be a really fun team to watch when everyone gets healthy.

A healthy TA adds a valuable piece to this team.

[ryaningf]

Nobody wants to lay into Tony? Alright, then I will.

He is a moron. That dunk late in the Toronto game proved that to me once and for all. That was an almost IDENTICAL dunk to the one where he blew his ACL out, right down to foolishly kicking his right leg out. The only real difference was that his left leg was bent instead of straight out on the landing. If it is straight out, he would have blown his knee out again. This guy has learned NOTHING.

GreenDreamy: this line of reasoning is borderline insane. Injuries just happen; TA can no more avoid injury by avoiding certain kinds of dunks than someone can avoid death by avoiding cigarettes.

There is no basis that I know of in classifying a specific basketball maneuver as any more or less potentially injurious than any other maneuver. There are plenty of non-contact injuries, injuries where a player jumps up and strains something (like KG's), or makes a simple cut and blows out a knee (like Welker). On the other hand, I've seen plenty of seemingly awkward or painful-looking cuts, moves, or falls where the player bounces right back up. Rarely is an injury about a wrong step or move--usually, they're the result of cumulative effects, the nature of which remain hazy. There is no science to avoiding injury.

To go around saying that certain kinds of dunks lead to injury is tantamount to basketball malpractice, resulting in the kind of tentative, scared basketball that TA has suffered from on his road to recovery. Sports, by their nature, are about play. And play is ultimately about not thinking, just doing. You can't tell yourself to avoid certain dunks and still 'play'. The key to overcoming an injury is to forget that you were injured--avoiding certain dunks would make that kind of recovery impossible.

Seriously, forget about the FACT that Tony and Marquis cannot BOTH play on the floor together. The spacing would be an abomination. This guy finds ways to completely screw up the EASIEST plays in the game. No brainer decisions aren't being made by a guy who evidently does not have a brain.

You want a guy like that out there in the PLAYOFFS? Remember how "good" he was last playoffs, when he single handedly blew a game for us doing the SAME things? To me he's either an expiring contract, or a 10th man. I have NO edesire to rely on this guy going forward. None. Put that playoff pressure back on and Bad Tony will be the ONLY Tony.

Daniels and TA could play together effectively, but we'd have to look for them in the post and not station them in the corners. A creative coach could make that lineup work, especially if House/Baby/'Sheed were also on the court. The defensive and fast break potential of TA/Daniels is something I'm excited to see...

TA does make a boneheaded play here or there, but he's not a bonehead any more than Ray or Rondo are when they make a boneheaded play. For whatever reason, TA's mistakes are more memorable than similar ones by other players.

TA hasn't performed well in the playoffs in a consistent manner since the Big 3 were put together, but there are reasons for that. The 08 playoff was about confidence in the knee and playing behind James Posey. Doc didn't have confidence in TA, TA didn't have confidence in the knee, and Posey got the consistent minutes; the 09 playoff was about rustiness due to missing about half the season due to injury, a rustiness which once again led to Doc's lack of confidence in TA and TA's lack of confidence in himself (don't forget, he had ankle surgery 2 days after the season ended--he was playing hurt even when he came back). Right now, he's playing at an unprecedented level in terms of confidence and health (since the knee injury). In the Big 3 era, we've never seen this TA; if he can remain healthy, it's safe to assume we'll see this level of play continue throughout the playoffs. Bad Tony was/is mostly about injury and confidence, not about ability...

[threrf23]

TA does NOT have a particularly low BBIQ.

Agreed. But, I also acknowledge that he has trouble thinking & acting at the same time. It hurts his ability to display his bball IQ.

Daniels and TA could play together effectively, but we'd have to look for them in the post and not station them in the corners.

Perhaps but is it worth figuring out? They are similar players, with similar strengths and weaknesses. If healthy, I actually think TA is the better player. But Marquis is about as good and is more consistent and consistency isn't unimportant especially off the bench.

But its good to see that our fan base no longer hates TA's guts. He was never that bad and on a good day or in the right situation he is still probably a bit underrated.