Big Baby!

sam_I_am · Post #1 » by **sam_I_am** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 3:10 pm

I was probably as upset at Davis as anybody on this board after he broke his hand and when Sheldon Williams started doing some great things I began to think Davis might just look good here in Boston.

Last night though, he came through again and showed his performance in the playoffs last year was no fluke. The only way we could have taken the Magic to 7 games and got as far as we did.... is if Big Baby is a really good player.

Last night he showed some low post ability and agility that for his height and weight is simply amazing. I think we may have some of the 2 best contracts in the league (excepting rookie deals and 1 year deals) in Perk and Baby.

cisco · Post #2 » by **cisco** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 3:36 pm

Been a fan of Big Baby since day 1. Just wait until he gets his legs under him and get his shot going, he's going to be great for us!

And to think people thought (or hoped - for those who simply dislike Davis) Shelden was the better player. :roll:

Celtics team rebounding appears better with Davis playing too.

celticfan42487 · Post #3 » by **celticfan42487** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 6:11 pm

team rebounding is better with more young players who want to get the ball.

I think Shelden is about equal to Davis. Shelden is a better rebounder and that's what we need. Not 15 footers and falling down on every shot attempt.

But the best thing is they should work perfectly together; giving Perk, Sheed, KG plenty of time to rest.

cisco · Post #4 » by **cisco** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 6:13 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:team rebounding is better with more young players who want to get the ball.

I think Shelden is about equal to Davis. Shelden is a better rebounder and that's what we need. Not 15 footers and falling down on every shot attempt.

But the best thing is they should work perfectly together; giving Perk, Sheed, KG plenty of time to rest.

bballcool34 · Post #5 » by **bballcool34** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 6:43 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:team rebounding is better with more young players who want to get the ball.

I think Shelden is about equal to Davis. Shelden is a better rebounder and that's what we need. Not 15 footers and falling down on every shot attempt.

But the best thing is they should work perfectly together; giving Perk, Sheed, KG plenty of time to rest.

No.

Shelden might be equal as a defender- maybe- although Baby is a decent post defender against some guys (Duncan, he did fine on Dwight as well last year).

On the offensive end, Baby kills Shelden- he has much better hands, a softer touch, can hit the jumper more consistently (at least last year).

That's not a slight against Sheldon whose played very well for us- and may be better than Davis in certain situations- but he's not a better player than Davis- that's a crazy suggestion.

return2glory · Post #6 » by **return2glory** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 7:12 pm

I was never mad at Glen Davis for breaking his thumb. He made a mistake and so does everyone.

For those of you who think Williams is even close to the type of player Davis is, keep this in mind. Players are simple to break down. You have scoring, rebounding, passing, dribbling, defense, and the desire.

Scoring: Edge to Davis. He is a better shooter. He can score from inside and out. And Davis can also put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. Davis also catches passes better than Williams, who's hands bring back memories of Mark Blount.

Rebounding: Edge to Davis. Everyone thinks Williams is the better rebounder, but he isn't. Last season Davis was asked to play a more outside game, but now that's more ofWallace's part, so Davis is crashing the offensive glass. Look at the rebounding numbers so far between the two players.

Passing: Edge to Davis. Davis is the better passer. He can at times create for his teammates. Shelden, not so much.

Dribbling: Edge to Davis. Davis can handle the ball and take it to the basket better than Williams.

Defense: Edge to Davis. Both are good post defenders. But Davis can guard players his size better than Williams away from the basket. And Davis can guard big guys like Shaq and Dwight better than Williams can.

Desire: Edge to Davis. All NBA players have talent, but some lack the desire to get better. Davis has improved ever year he has been in the League. Shelden Williams has shown no improvement. Williams was selected 5th overall in the draft, but lacks the passion to get better.

TheOGJabroni · Post #7 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 7:20 pm

I've been one to say that maybe Shelden is the better fit here. Simply because he knows his role, while Baby has had concerns about his PT. And he is plays closer to the basket, which is great to complement Sheed. But, seeing Baby again, his skill is too high for Williams to replace. Maybe it will also force Rasheed to play downlow a bit more. It seems like a win-win though. Either way, Scal sees less minutes, always a plus. And our depth is great.

celticfan42487 · Post #8 » by **celticfan42487** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 8:37 pm

Fine have it your way.

Scoring/Passing: Davis

Defense/Rebounding: Williams

Desire: Tie. I don't penalize Baby for not being able to stay in shape because it's obvious both this players PLAY when they play. Neither take plays off.

And yes that's how you decide who is a better player. Then you go to fit. Shelden is a trash man, Baby is a shooting "big". Who is smaller in height, more importantly reach, an lesser in vertical. And it's a big part of the reason that Baby tries to flop every time he goes inside to get the call. He's not getting it... maybe in 10 years he will.

The Celtics have old talented offensive players that are not going to sacrifice their bodys for the dirty work of chasing down offensive and defensive rebounds and we need people to do the dirty work.

As for Sheed, only Sheed decides if he plays in the post. And I believe in the playoffs he'll make that decision to be the better player (the one that mixes it up and does go inside).

irie · Post #9 » by **irie** » Sun Jan 3, 2010 8:43 pm

I think Shelden and Davis' minutes should depend entirely on the matchup. Davis is an offensive minded player and Shelden is a defensive and rebounding minded one. If we're struggling on offense or the other team has bad offensive bigs, then definitely go with Davis. If we're playing against an offensive threat then I say go with Shelden. They're both just role players and they have to accept it.

return2glory · Post #10 » by **return2glory** » Mon Jan 4, 2010 1:03 am

celticfan42487 wrote:Fine have it your way.

Scoring/Passing: Davis

Defense/Rebounding: Williams

Desire: Tie. I don't penalize Baby for not being able to stay in shape because it's obvious both this players PLAY when they play. Neither take plays off.

How is Williams a better defender than Davis? Williams doesn't have the quickness to guard people out of the paint. And Davis is stronger. Can you imagine Williams guarding Shaq or D. Howard in the post?

For desire you have a tie? Davis works on his game harder in the off season than Williams. That's why we see progress in Davis' game each year while Williams is the same type of player he was in his rookie season. Williams is a good role player, Davis helps win games.

Either way, both players give us options and I'm glad both are on the Celtics.

Post #11 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Jan 4, 2010 5:14 pm

Shel is not a better defender than BBD. Shel isn't wide enough to muscle up, or quick enough to guard agile 4's. I have a lot more confidence in BBD on D than Shel. Rebounding is about even. Everything else BBD is clearly better.

sam_I_am · Post #12 » by **sam_I_am** » Mon Jan 4, 2010 7:40 pm

Against Toronto there were times when we needed big baskets and when Davis was on the court his teammates were searching for him. I actually saw Sheed pass up shot because he was looking to get the ball to Davis. That surprised me. Davis has only been back for 4 games. But if his teammates know the they can go to him..... then he is better than I used to believe.

RondoWallace · Post #13 » by **RondoWallace** » Mon Jan 4, 2010 8:02 pm

I hate to name call, but Shelden William supporters are morons.

Big Baby = 20/8 player if starting.
On defense he can body up Shaq, Howard. Shelden is clueless.

return2glory · Post #14 » by **return2glory** » Mon Jan 4, 2010 9:51 pm

sam_I_am wrote:Against Toronto there were times when we needed big baskets and when Davis was on the court his teammates were searching for him. I actually saw Sheed pass up shot because he was looking to get the ball to Davis. That surprised me. Davis has only been back for 4 games. But if his teammates know the they can go to him..... then he is better than I used to believe.

You must have forgotten about his performance in the playoffs. Davis had a few games over 20 points and Pierce went to him on the buzzer beater at Orlando. Glen Davis is an offensive option.

How great was this shot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HIToSvlsVA

TheOGJabroni · Post #15 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Wed Jan 6, 2010 5:26 pm

RondoWallace wrote:I hate to name call, but Shelden William supporters are morons.

Big Baby = 20/8 player if starting.
On defense he can body up Shaq, Howard. Shelden is clueless.

You realize our starter right now, you know...Kevin Garnett, he is putting up 15 and 7.6. So 20 and 8 for Baby might be a taaad high.

beantownski · Post #16 » by **beantownski** » Wed Jan 6, 2010 6:43 pm

big baby is a better player than williams. williams might be as good of a rebounder than baby is, but baby is better at everything else........passing, bball IQ, jump shot, and so on. that, and williams has two catcher mitts for hands. they're almost mark blount bad.

cisco · Post #17 » by **cisco** » Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:15 pm

CELTICSinME wrote:
RondoWallace wrote:I hate to name call, but Shelden William supporters are morons.

Big Baby = 20/8 player if starting.
On defense he can body up Shaq, Howard. Shelden is clueless.

You realize our starter right now, you know...Kevin Garnett, he is putting up 15 and 7.6. So 20 and 8 for Baby might be a taaad high.

What does what KG produces have to do with what Baby can produce? Didn't Baby average 16/6 in the playoffs against an elite team? It makes sense that he might be able to average 20 points during the regular season against mostly inferior competition.

Kids Are Alright · Post #18 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:19 pm

and we shouldn't forget that Baby can play center on D on bigs, something SW should not do, he can't keep them out of the paint and is too small if they get into the paint.

20 and 8 are more numbers for J O'Neal but not Baby.

RondoWallace · Post #19 » by **RondoWallace** » Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:38 pm

Big Baby is our best player after the top 5. Big Baby: 18/7 guy, with good defense

**** He is our only legit POST threat..

HE CAN PUT UP 18 ppg, on good shooting %

TheOGJabroni · Post #20 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:09 pm

cisco wrote:
CELTICSinME wrote:
RondoWallace wrote:I hate to name call, but Shelden William supporters are morons.

Big Baby = 20/8 player if starting.
On defense he can body up Shaq, Howard. Shelden is clueless.

You realize our starter right now, you know...Kevin Garnett, he is putting up 15 and 7.6. So 20 and 8 for Baby might be a taaad high.

What does what KG produces have to do with what Baby can produce? Didn't Baby average 16/6 in the playoffs against an elite team? It makes sense that he might be able to average 20 points during the regular season against mostly inferior competition.

You just gave a sample size of two playoffs series to compare what KG has done very consistently over two years for the C's.