Why we should NOT give Ray the ball to win

[Hemingway]

I can live with Ray handling the ball. Screw ups like last night are far and few between

[UGA Hayes]

^ I can't believe anyone is surprised that Ray lost the ball in that situation, especially against a guy of Wade's caliber. There is a pretty strong contigent on the board who points out every 10 game or so how terrible a ball handler he is when he is outside the three point line or on a fast break. I don't mind him putting it on the floor on a curl b/c he is a fantastic finisher and if he can get to the basket and get the shot off, he will make a pretty high percentage. The problem is the more dribble he takes, the more likely he will cough it up. I can't believe people are disputing this. Noone is calling a bad player or an overall negative to the team. The things he does well, he does as well as anyone i.e shooting, finshing. But that doesn't mean people can't criticize the things he does poorly or the fact that he just overall is a below average decision maker. It is a testament to his overall skill that he overcomes these (GLARING) weaknesses.

[irie]

I hate it when the ball is out of Rondo's hands for a full shot clock and there are zero passes. Isolation plays are probably the ugliest in basketball.

[ParticleMan]

from what Perk said in the Herald, it sounds like that wasn't supposed to be the play, but he inbounded it to ray anyway because it was the only option. he said he should have called a TO instead. why was perk inbounding anyways in that situation??

[sully00]

Nice post Particle.

This is the single dumbest idea ever by the way. I am a huge Paul Pierce honk but he is nowhere near as good as Ray Allen at handling the basketball, he gets turned over in that situation all of the time. Paul is a better passer than Ray sure but he is not a better ball handler at all. Ray is not a pg and has to dribble a little bit too much for this team at times but he is a solid ball handler.

Rondo and Pierce had 6 and 5 turnovers respectively in that game.

It was a busted play Ray got hit on the head when you are star in this league you sell the foul and he did he just didn't realize the guy who hit him on the head was a bigger star.

But how can you call yourself a fan of this team not just hope and pray they find a way to get Ray the ball in an end game situation after what he has done here over the last 3 seasons? The guy shoots clock running out 3 pts like FTs in an empty gym.

[EJay33]

The Heat had Wade on Ray for a reason. They didn't want the ball in Ray's hands because he is devastating in the clutch. The play itself was stupid, why give it to Ray 50 feet from the basket with a guy 5X more athletic than him defending him? The Celtics should've seen the matchup and gone to plan B. Doc more than made up for it with the brilliant play to save the game. What a game last night, Sheed and Ray Ray were killing it in the 4th, Rondo took over down the stretch and it was a well played 4th quarter/OT that was highly entertaining and resulting in a big road win. Games like that are why I watch basketball.

[Ortho Stice]

This topic is reflexive and absurd. Ray has always been incredibly clutch during his time with the Celtics and has hit several game winners for us. Last night's turnover doesn't negate all the innumerable clutch shots he's hit.

[PPAW4Life]

Ray was fouled....any other time in the game they would have called that.

You see worse calls made...some guy dribbles up the court gets bumped slightly on the hip and it's a foul.....some other guy dribbles up the court trips over his own feet and falls bumping into a guy and he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Ray's head was getting fouled by Wade's entire body and no call....yea it's the refs not wanting to put a 91% FT shooter on the line to put the C's on top in that situation....I get it they don't want to blow a whistle in that situation.

Could Ray have not even tried to dribble? Sure....but when you're playing on the road you want to try and make something happen....Wade gambled and he got away with it....simple as that....just left too much time on the clock for the C's hahah.

[Yinwest]

The Ray hate is pretty annoying...

[Al-Haqq]

This topic is reflexive and absurd. Ray has always been incredibly clutch during his time with the Celtics and has hit several game winners for us. Last night's turnover doesn't negate all the innumerable clutch shots he's hit.

Who's saying Ray is NOT clutch?

Who is saying Ray is bad for Boston?

No one!

It's quite disturbing how often I have to repeat myself - although I'm glad a lot of people agree also.

Ray Allen IS clutch ... and has hit big shots for Boston.

What I want you to do is go look how many have been off a catch and shoot or Pierce has passed him the ball for the win.

... vs Bobcats in 08 [Pierce assist, Ray catch and shoot]
... vs 76ers in 09 [Pierce assist]
... vs Bulls in 09 playoffs [Catch and shoot off Rondo assist].

A few off the top of my head. I'll let you finish the list.

My point is clear and simple: Ray should not be handling the ball. Either set him to be open via a screen and give it to Pierce or Rondo to set him up.

^ Apparently that is hating on Ray. Ray needs to be traded ... *insert silly line here*

It is a perfectly rational argument. If Tony Allen got the ball I would have gone off my nut also, but like I already mentioned there were people here arguing for Ray Allen to get the ball in these kinds of situations and this to me proves [again] why he should not. I would much prefer him to catch and shoot.

[Ortho Stice]

Maybe you shouldn't have made the title of your post "Why we should NEVER give Ray the ball to win", if you actually meant to say the opposite (that he actually should get the ball to win the game, but just off a catch and shoot.) Ray can get the ball to win the game, without having to dribble the ball (I'm assuming this is what you meant by handling the ball) - the two aren't mutually exclusive. With that said, not all of Ray's clutch shots are of the catch and shoot variety - many are off the dribble. Just because he made a single mistake in yesterday's game, doesn't mean he should be restricted from dribbling the ball in the clutch - that's reflexive thinking and ignores the amount of times he's been successful creating and making shots in the clutch. What play should be run is largely dependent on the other team's defenders and how hot a player is that game. But if your post really means Ray shouldn't catch the ball near the halfcourt line with an incredibly athletic defender who's a superstar with complete amnesty from the refs pressuring him and perhaps fouling him (since it wouldn't be called), then yeah, you're right, that probably wasn't an ideal play, and Perkins admitted it wasn't drawn up that way

[celticfan42487]

Ray handling the ball in the clutch = certain failure

Ray shooting the ball after someone else does all the work to set him up= certain success


Ray hate or not that can't be argued and is proven over and over again. And that said, hopefully Ray doesn't take an allstar spot away from a more deserving younger star because of his name this year.

[UGA Hayes]

By the way Ray was not fouled on that play. No way.

[sully00]

You have got to be kidding.

[Kids Are Alright]

The most redic thread ever..

[Kids Are Alright]

So the play wasn't supposed to go to Ray.
If the official was Joey Crawford, it absolutely was a foul.
Ray is a shooter and is a good dribble penetrator, he doesn't look to pass...sometimes a problem
he's been clutch so many times for us

just a dumb idea for a thread