Rondo haters eating lots of crow this year

[pac213up]

Not worth $10mil...not an All-Star...blah...blah...blah. Have fun watching him in Dallas.

[Zin5]

Damn straight, dude's even got his free throw percentage back over 50%!

[jfs1000d]

Just pass the salt for the crow.

I am somewhat vindicated as an anti-rondo man because he in fact is scoring more and being more aggressive. That's what I wanted, while others said last year Rondo was elite.

The 13.5, 9.6 assist Rondo is worth $10 million +. Let's hope Rondo doesn't turn into the 2-for-5 6 points 10 assist 2 turnover non-factor Rondo in the big games.

As of right now, I am trying to find a crow recipe. I will gladly take a bite at the end of the year.

[ParticleMan]

rondo is worth what he got, which is what i was arguing for. i still don't think he's a max player liek some were arguing. he still a consistent jumper away from being a max guy.

props to rondo on straightening out his FT motion. it looks SO much more consistent than it was at the start of the year (if still a tad funky). at least he cut down all the wasted motion which caused his elbow and shoulder to fly out so often. i feel a lot more confident with him at the line now. he's no ray but at least he's a 70% type shooter now which is a big improvement.

[sully00]

I think the jury is far from in on this one. I am no "hater" of Rondo most of the people who started with that talk are the retards that thought he is a max contract player and anyone who doubted he was going to score 18 ppg or avg a triple double were crazy. Rondo of course has zero triple doubles as we near the midpoint of the season and he is avg a respectable 13 ppg but is still a 4th and even 5th at times offensive option. He has recovered from a horrific start at the line and got to close to his crappy career avg. So what has changed? Who doubted Rondo would avg 13/4/9?

I love Rondo and the money is fine, probably overpaying but he has a little something that makes him better than his stats and I am fine with it, he is a big play guy. But look at what were talking about trading him for Rudy Gay and Mike Conley or Tyreke Evans or Monta Ellis, these were moves that were going to help replace Ray and Paul down the road. This is simply a value conversation what supposedly made Rondo so valuable was his rebounding which is down because we are not using Mikki Moore anymore.

The problem Boston now is facing is the increased production didn't go to Rondo, much to his credit in a way as he helps make it happen, the increased production went to Perkins. He is the guy who is reproducing his postseason. He has improved his scoring by a 3rd and leads the team in rebounds and the league in FG% while being a dominant defensive big man. So we hand Rondo 55 mil a year early at the easiest position to fill in the league what do you do with Perk who has already been the best bargain in the game the last few years at the hardest position to fill. What center would you trade Kendrick Perkins for right now? At any price.

I love these two guys and want them in Boston till they hang their jerseys in the rafters they epitomize the best parts of the game. I am just worried about them collecting 25 mil a season and scoring a combined 25 a game and Ainge trying to fill out a line up that can win a championship around them. I just think of the Paul Silas' Charlotte Hornets they would win 55 games but they never had the guy that could get them through a playoff series because they had this collection of terrific role players.

Giving him the contract wasn't a bad move, he isn't bringing guns into the locker room or running through the streets naked and drunk at all hours. He is playing great and all that. We just aren't going to know if it was a good or great move until a year or two from now.

[elrod enchilada]

the jury is still out? wow, did they reconvene the OJ jury?

[floyd]

Straw men are intended to scare crows away.

[sully00]

the jury is still out? wow, did they reconvene the OJ jury?

Yeah because I am sure you were predicting Rondo would be putting up 13/4/9 with the same crappy FT shooting and same BS jump shot. Because I was.

I am not sure they had to agree to give him 55 mil a year early for him to continue to be the same player he was. Wasn't that the whole point that he was going to score 16-17 a game or avg close to a triple double so we better give him his money now before he explodes production wise?

So save the stupid jokes we aren't going to know if it was a good idea for a year or two or until the kids production matches the pay check.

[cfan79]

I love Rondo, but he still has his weaknesses. He is unable to stay in front of his man. I don't understand why this is so. I'm alright with his shooting because he's getting better at that, I just want him to become a better defender. He has to be one of the best setup men in the biz though.

Also I hate to break it to you guys, but he's not going to make the all star game if Iverson is voted on. There's too many players that the coaches will vote on ahead of him.

[Gant]

the jury is still out? wow, did they reconvene the OJ jury?

Yeah because I am sure you were predicting Rondo would be putting up 13/4/9 with the same crappy FT shooting and same BS jump shot. Because I was.

I am not sure they had to agree to give him 55 mil a year early for him to continue to be the same player he was. Wasn't that the whole point that he was going to score 16-17 a game or avg close to a triple double so we better give him his money now before he explodes production wise?

I don't think increased scoring was the point. Rebounding wasn't the point either. It was passing, efficiency, defense, and floor leadership.

Rondo is down in rebounding, but up in many critical categories: Assists, FG% (and TS% and eFG%), steals, defensive rating, PER etc.

As far as diversifying his offense, get this: last season from 10-15 feet Rondo shot 35%. This season he's shooting nearly 54 PERCENT! from that distance. So he has extended his range. Last year he was close-to-the-basket only. This year he's 15 feet and in. That's huge.

The other thing he does now is take over games.

He's making the all star team. He's getting better month by month. It looks like he's figured out the free throws. He's worth the money.

[elrod enchilada]

it may have been stupid, sully, but it was no joke. Anyone who has watched the Cs for the past month who questions whether the extension was a good idea or whether Rondo is worth the money simply has a different understanding of the game, one I do not understand. I am not one of these "I was right before you so admit you are a doofus" sort of guys. It is not of matter of who was right first. The concerns people raised about Rondo were and are legitimate. But his strengths are astonishing, and he more than deserves this contract. And he is only 23. If he answers the remaining concerns he becomes a max contract player. He is not on a max-contract deal.

[Mahoney_jr]

I don't think sully didn't want the Rondo extension at 55/5 (and I wanted it as well), but it's totally legit to point out the weaknesses of Rondo, why he isn't a max contract guy and, most importantly from my point of view, why handing out big bucks to Point Guards has negative effects for a team's salary structure. It has to be said, that the overall impact of small guys is... small. Granted, Rondo plays a lot bigger than his size and covers lots of ground, he's still a Point Guard and not a frontcourt player. Perk is and he'll get 50 million as well.. and then we've got a salary problem.

Btw: I LOOOOVE Rondo. One of my favourite young players.

[mwhis21]

our current and future salary problems do not and will not begin with Rondo and Perk...it starts and ends with KG.

Rondo and Perk at 20 million a year are much better value than KG at 25 million a year. People can come back and say without KG we don't win a championship. Well we don't win one without Rondo either or Pierce or Ray Allen. Perk is now the cog on defense not KG. Is it just me or does Perk look more athletic and more agile this year? Maybe coordinated is the right word.

Either way our stars in decline making 18-25 million a year are where the salary problems start and end not young players making 8-10million a year. Just my opinion.

Its certainly a legitimate question, but at what point do you start questioning whether its worth resigning KG? Two knee injuries in two years are a concern, especially when its the knees of your highest paid player.

[sully00]

Exactly that is what the extension is about. He hasn't blossomed into something else he is the same guy. That is great for this team and guess what he would be here whether he got a contract extension or not.

In two years can you be a championship contender with Rondo and Perk eating up half your salary cap? If no then how is a great move?

Sure Rondo has played well but so have Rudy Gay, Tyreke Evans, and Monta Ellis. I don't know if we could have dealt him for these guys or not but that is what we were talking about. Maybe in two years Rondo's game is that much more complete but I feel like we paid top dollar for the kid at his current play he isn't the steal he was in the draft if you follow.

[Ortho Stice]

It has to be said, that the overall impact of small guys is... small. Granted, Rondo plays a lot bigger than his size and covers lots of ground, he's still a Point Guard and not a frontcourt player. Perk is and he'll get 50 million as well.. and then we've got a salary problem.

So you don't think small players should get big salaries regardless of how good they are? And no, the impact of small guys is not always small. Steve Nash just won two MVPS and is leading the Suns into contention for a top spot in the West. Yes, they have Ama're, but Nash has the bigger impact. Should we have let Rondo walk because he's not Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or Hakeem Olajuwon? If anything, decent bigs get overpaid most of the time and become contract albatrosses (Okafor, Dalembert). If you think the Hornets are being carried by Okafor and not Chris Paul, then you're sorely mistaken.

[Mahoney_jr]

So you would've payed Nash the Max? Or do you think his current salary is fine? And what about defense? Steve Nash is an awesome basketball player, but more than 11 million per? I wouldn't want to pay him that. And Stoudemire has a lower impact of course. It's not about length only for me. Stoudemire is a complementary star player. A very good PnR player and frontcourt scorer, but a very averge overall player.

[sully00]

mwhis21

But KG is off the books in two years and is making 19-21 for those two years. The only guy with a contract beyond that season is Rondo. I would agree if Rondo was making 8-10 the problem is that he is going to be making 11, 12, 13 after KG expires. I don't know that KG is an issue Pierce on the other hand is in the same position Garnett was when we acquired him. A year out headed into a player option.

[sully00]

I don't want to do this dance all over again but it isn't just big man small man, you might notice that Chris Paul avg 20 ppg with more assists and more rebounds than Rondo.

Nash does not have a bigger impact than Amare if the goal of your team is winning a championship. In a 7 game series what the Suns do in FEB to teams doesn't work it is a different game.

On the hand as we witnessed first hand last night Dwayne Wade does have that impact.

Scoring the ball in the NBA is hard.

[SichtingLives]

Over the length of Rondo's contract, where will he rank salary wise amongst his PG peers? I think right now he fits right in where he should be. A lot can change over 5 years for better or worse, but if there's one thing that Rondo has proven to be garbage (imo), it's the notion that he needs the Big 3 to be successful. He may have been overpaid somewhat but not so much that it should be considered a bad deal for the Celtics. The kid can play and is a huge component of our success. When it comes down to contract time you can either pay up or let him walk. Even if we overpaid to retain him, it would've been very foolish to let him go at this point in time.

I don't think anyone will ever confuse Rondo as a #1 scoring option. I also don't think the goal is to use Rondo and Perk as the players that you "build around" as the future of the franchise, but they are two guys who have shown that they know how to play winning basketball and furthermore the Boston Celtics brand of winning basketball. Even when Paul, Ray and KG are gone, I still want Rondo and Perk starting in our lineup. And yes, maybe you could get better value or overall production out of a few other players at their respective positions, but even that is not a guarantee. Every contract handed out in the NBA is a relative gamble for the team.

With all the money tied up between the Big 3, that's where your money comes from to bring in another piece of the puzzle. Or two. Or three. In a different situation, DA might have had more leverage with Rondo, but you're looking at a situation where 3 of our best players are on their way down or out in the next few years. It's tough to gamble on the few promising young players you have when there is literally nothing else on the roster to move into the future with.

Out of curiosity Sully what do you think his monetary value is or should be?

[Ortho Stice]

So you would've payed Nash the Max? Or do you think his current salary is fine? And what about defense? Steve Nash is an awesome basketball player, but more than 11 million per? I wouldn't want to pay him that. And Stoudemire has a lower impact of course. It's not about length only for me. Stoudemire is a complementary star player. A very good PnR player and frontcourt scorer, but a very averge overall player.

How much one should pay a player doesn't always work in a vacuum - some players like LeBron or Shaq would certainly get paid the maximum regardless of the team, while the worth of other players, in terms of salary, is largely dependent on the team's players, coaches and system. For instance, Rashard Lewis's contract is largely considered an albatross, yet the Magic's GM made sure he got the player he wanted, a player who fits perfectly within his system. On any other team he would likely be one of the worst contracts in the league, but on the Magic he's a great fit next to Howard, and a great fit in the Magic's three pointer oriented offense. People thought Nash was overpaid, too, but Colangelo saw a player who would mesh with the Suns' roster and style of play, and he ended up winning a few MVPs, and almost leading them into the Finals. Whether or not a player should get paid X salary is sometimes dependent on what team we're talking about, and not always determined in a vacuum.