MIN/OKC

[dunkonu21]

This deal is bad. Harden isn't the wing we need imo.

[Narf]

^^^Green isn't a tweener. He's playing out of position for the betterment of the team. If anything, he's versatile, and that's a positive, not a negative. Harden is no slouch either, his value should be equivalent to Green's in my opinion. Both are two way players and high level character guys. I definitely consider this deal.

Green is a tweener. He has a hard time guarding faster small forwards and has a very hard time guarding bigger PFs. He's also got the lowest +/- rating of anyone on that team (who's played 5% of their minutes anyway) and has been out-PERed by 5 points at both positions all year. He was out-PERed at both positions last year as well, which makes this a trend.

Jefferson, on the other hand, out-PERs his guy by quite a bit at both PF and C. He's a tweener too.

Green has only played 9% of his teams minutes at the SF position. So less than 5 minutes per game. As a PF, sure, he's undersized and he's going to get scored on.

I think most would agree that Jefferson, too, is playing out of position and is a natural PF.

And 17% of his teams minutes there last year. And he got out PERed there too.

Green is not a good defender at either position. He can't guard bigger PFs and he can't guard faster SF. Are you disagreeing with that or are you just arguing to argue?
Do his stats not count just because he's only played 13% of his team's minutes over 2 years at SF? Or can I just say "yes he does get out PERed at both positions every year with poor defense"?
OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT IS NOT THE CASE?
It's really unfortunate that you spend all your time telling other people how they are wrong and don't have the backbone to put your own conclusions out there for other people to criticize. Is he or isn't he a poor defender at both positions? Does he or does he not lose more than he wins at both positions?
If he's a small forward, isn't he a below average SF since he's generally outproduced at that position?

[Krapinsky]

I'm just going to move on Narf. I've made my point. I think Green has the making to be a solid SF. I don't think he's had a chance to show that, or develop that part of his game.

[Narf]

I'm just going to move on Narf. I've made my point. I think Green has the making to be a solid SF. I don't think he's had a chance to show that, or develop that part of his game.

You haven't made any point. He's been out produced at the SF spot for 2 years. All you did was argue I was wrong without saying what was right.

[Narf]

And just so people don't think I"m pulling a fast one, he was outproduced even worse his rookie season. He had a 9.4 PER with a 20.1 opponents PER his rookie year, but I generally don't hold that against a player which is why I didn't mention it. But for the record, he's giving up over 5 points in PER at the SF position for his career. That matches up nicely with the 5 point in PER that he's giving up at the PF position.

[Foye]

And just so people don't think I"m pulling a fast one, he was outproduced even worse his rookie season. He had a 9.4 PER with a 20.1 opponents PER his rookie year, but I generally don't hold that against a player which is why I didn't mention it. But for the record, he's giving up over 5 points in PER at the SF position for his career. That matches up nicely with the 5 point in PER that he's giving up at the PF position.

Yeah. Green is probably just good enough to get that next big contract but he won't help the Thunder as much as he should regarding his payment check then.

[The J Rocka]

This is one of the better more realistic trade scenarios but im not a fan of this. Al is worth way more and i feel that we would just be dumping him to get rid of his salary instead of trading for equal talent. Al is on another level then Green + Harden together and if we trade Al, i would want a star caliber player in return (ie: Granger, Iggy) OKC gets a better deal and i don't want to help them out at all and this would be one of those moves that will separate us from them even more. If this went down we would be sitting at the bottom for more years to come. Personally i believe that the Al + Love combo will attract many free agents.

[karch34]

It's interesting as I like Green and Harden, especially Harden, but right now it seems like trading a player who's an 8 or 9 on a scale of 1-10 for two 6s. Granted two 6s that could improve and fill two gaping holes.

[AQuintus]

I think that's a bad guess. What would phili do with Speights, Al, and Brand? A three way is a possibility though.

A three way that would probably make sense for all teams would be:

SAC Gets: Al Jefferson

PHI Gets: Kevin Martin + SAC 1st

MIN Gets: Andre Iguodala

Sac gets a big who fits in well with their other bigs and creates a very strong 3 man rotation. They give up a late lotto pick and a guy who may not fit with their new franchise guy.

Phi loses Iguodala but replaces him with a guy who's about equal talent wise while vastly improving their outside shooting and spacing.

Min replaces Al with a wing with great perimeter defense and a skillset that fits both the triangle and the up temp running offense we're trying to use.

[ritt0093]

I think that's a bad guess. What would phili do with Speights, Al, and Brand? A three way is a possibility though.

A three way that would probably make sense for all teams would be:

SAC Gets: Al Jefferson

PHI Gets: Kevin Martin + SAC 1st

MIN Gets: Andre Iguodala

Sac gets a big who fits in well with their other bigs and creates a very strong 3 man rotation. They give up a late lotto pick and a guy who may not fit with their new franchise guy.

Phi loses Iguodala but replaces him with a guy who's about equal talent wise while vastly improving their outside shooting and spacing.

Min replaces Al with a wing with great perimeter defense and a skillset that fits both the triangle and the up temp running offense we're trying to use.

I like, only concern is that SAC already has Jason Thompson (admittedly not amazing, but he is atleast a young recent lottery big) and that I don't know if a late lotto pick (just guessing thats what SAC would be after getting Jefferson) is worth the downgrade from Iguodala to Martin. Maybe some people would feel it's enough, but I can't see it as Iguodala is a true two way player.

[Krapinsky]

I think the Sac first would have to come here. Phili posters have maintained that they think Iggy is worth about $10 million per year. We tend to think Al is a bargain at $13 per year.

Iggy and K-Mart are about equal in my opinion.

[The J Rocka]

Kings could move Hawes to the bench if this happened

[karch34]

I think the Sac first would have to come here. Phili posters have maintained that they think Iggy is worth about $10 million per year. We tend to think Al is a bargain at $13 per year.

Iggy and K-Mart are about equal in my opinion.

I think the trade makes more sense for us than some of the other Iggy trades. I think Philly would want more though as they are getting the lesser player IMO. Maybe they get the Utah pick back from us and we get the Sac 1st.

[GopherIt!]

Hmm... looks like PA and Kahn agree with my comment last night, that no one agreed with, that we particularly struggle against perimeter oriented teams.

I didn't see your post before but I agree.


As for the talk of trading Big Al. I don't like it. Throw an athletic third big in the mix who can defend and our front court looks pretty good in my book.

[revprodeji]

I am making another thread.

[Slum_Dillinger]

No need to trade Jefferson unless its an obvious upgrade.

[Esohny]

God, I love all these trade Jefferson threads...

[horaceworthy]

And just so people don't think I"m pulling a fast one, he was outproduced even worse his rookie season. He had a 9.4 PER with a 20.1 opponents PER his rookie year, but I generally don't hold that against a player which is why I didn't mention it. But for the record, he's giving up over 5 points in PER at the SF position for his career. That matches up nicely with the 5 point in PER that he's giving up at the PF position.

The 20 Opponent PER was what Green gave up at PF his rookie year. His opponent PER at SF that year was 17.1. That was the one year he played more minutes at SF than PF, and he didn't really get his act together offensively until later in the year when he started getting more minutes at PF. That's been the case during most of his 2 1/3 year career. Better offensive player at PF, better defensive player at PF. I'm with you on his tweener status, and I think he's one of the more consistently overrated players on Realgm.