MIN/IND

[aicnirvana]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5368777

For those who may be too lazy to click on the link the trade is as follows:

Jefferson, Gomes, Sessions, and rights to Rubio for:
Granger, Hibbert, Tj Ford, and Luther Head

Why for MIN? They balance their roster out a little bit and get some much needed outside shooting in Granger and Head. Ford is a decent backup point guard who has shown that he is capable of playing well coming off the bench. We can bring over Pekovic next year to be our 3rd big. Hibbert will bring that size our team desperately needs from the center position.

Why for IND? They really aren't getting anywhere with Granger and they desperately need some inside scoring on that team. Jefferson would compliment Troy Murphys game pretty well. Gomes replaces Granger as the starting SF on that team.

Sprinkle in some draft picks on either side if you think that needs to be done. Thoughts?

[Foye]

I don't know.

I guess this is a trade where the value is fair but both teams overvalue their own players so a deal won't get done.

[john2jer]

No chance Indy trades Granger, he's pretty much their only hope. but I don't know, just seems like too much for the Wolves to give up having to add in Rubio and taking back Ford.

[The J Rocka]

Yea i don't like that we are just handing them Rubio for Tj

[berginator]

I don't see why we should have to give up Rubio's rights, if not for that... I'd agonize a bit over it. I thought we were trying to run, isn't Hibbert a real plodder? I like him, but doesn't he go against our style?

[No_Pressure]

It'll be better and easier just to change items and location instead.

But I like the idea of Granger and Love playing together.

[karch34]

I guess I look at it as Rubio for Hibbert, Sessions for Ford, and Al for Grainger so it's not bad value for us, even though Ford is a bad contract. I see it as something that would be much more plausible, and maybe even necessary, if we got the #2 pick in the draft and had Favors though.

[revprodeji]

No, granger cannot stay healthy. I love the talent, but his health worries me.

Adding Rubio and Sessions is too much. If we are obsessed with a Granger/Al trade then do this.

Granger+Hibbert

Jefferson+Flynn

Then work the cap out after that. Simple is better.

[Slum_Dillinger]

I don't see why we should have to give up Rubio's rights, if not for that... I'd agonize a bit over it. I thought we were trying to run, isn't Hibbert a real plodder? I like him, but doesn't he go against our style?

I tend not to worry too much about the Center leading out keeping up with the fast break. I think he is a damn good fit in the triangle though. Good posting up, really good passer out of the post, he has damn good vision for a Center. He and Love would compliment each other pretty well IMO.

Indiana actually has the 2nd highest pace in the league, and when Hibbert is given a chance to do his thing, he shines. Just put up 26/8/3 with 4 blocks against Howard. I know its one game but he is becoming more consistent the more he is utilized

[aicnirvana]

The way I thought about it was in terms of one for one deals. Al for Granger, Rubios potential for Hibbert. Sessions for Ford. Gomes for Head. Ford isn't necessarily a bad contract. he becomes an expiring next year i believe. We may be a running team but Jefferson doesn't really fit into that either and at least Hibbert has size. MIN needs a center that takes up some space in the middle. We also desperately need some perimeter and 3pt threats. Granger fits that perfectly. I'm not saying this trade solves all of our needs, but at least pushes us in a positive direction.

[shrink]

Swapping Granger for Jefferson doesn't help IND. They would be just as stuck in the middle as they are now. They need to trade Granger for elite young players/picks, and go through a two year rebuild collecting assets, just like everyone else.

[shrink]

I wrote this on the trade board earlier today

Now I don't think for a minute that the Pacers would trade Granger and bad contracts for expirings and a late 1st. But do I think Granger is untouchable, for any amount of money and good prospects? No way.

As eitanr pointed out, the Pacers are in a bad situation. They have a star player in Granger, but they have second-rate talent to put around him. They can hope that non Top 10 prospects like Hibbert and Rush develop into stars, but the odds are stacked against them. If they had a good chance, they'd have been drafted much higher. Next, the Pacers can expect little help from the draft, since their vets are just good enough to put them back in the middle of the draft. Finally, they can't get help from finances. Next season they're over the lux with their pick, and in 2011 they'll have the task of trying to encourage a free agent to come to the wind-swept midwest. Perhaps they can use their cap space in trades, but it will be right before a probable lock-out, so will they really want to spend money then?

The fact that the Pacers have been in the middle for so long has put them far behind other team's rebuilding efforts with high lottery picks, promising youth and financial flexibility. Like KG before him in MIN, Granger shouldn't expect help anytime soon.

This HOU package is an insult, but while IND fans may say its blasphemy, I think if IND could get a team to offer a fair package for IND including elite prospects, and they lost enough games to get elite picks on their own, the team would have a better chance. I think on their current road, they are going exactly where MIN did. Year after year of 1st round play-off exits and mediocre picks.

One team should combine the two young players. Unfortunately for the Pacers, that would probably be us, because they don't have enough value on the rest of the team to make a fair offer for Jefferson without Granger. They just haven't been collecting assets long enough.

[shrink]

My general theory is:

1. If your team has enough talent to potential win a championship, you do it. Trade youth or whatever you can afford and increase your chances. Championship level teams make money at the gate.

2. If your team is bad, trade your talent for prospects and picks, that may give you a chance at a championship in the future. Your attendance may dwindle, but your costs will decrease too.

3. If your team is in the middle -- get out of there! If you have the assets to have a realistic chance to win a championship - do it. If not, rebuild, so you have a chance in the future.

A. The one caveat here is that you don't trade your star IF HE MAKES YOU MONEY. If fans aren't paying to see him and your team, and you don't see this guy on national commericals, an owner has to look at the bottom line, and see how he can improve his business. Granger falls in this category. So does Al Jefferson, if I'm to take a dose of my own medicine. Devin Harris as well. Kevin Martin.

If a team isn't ready to make their leap, then they need to retrench to get the best chance at a brighter future, both economically and in the basketball standings.

Play for championships, by taking legitimate shots when you have them

[Krapinsky]

Flynn + Brewer + Bobs pick + Utah pick + Blount for Granger.

[GopherIt!]

I'd love that trade but Indy would hate it.

[revprodeji]

Only way we get him is with either Al or Rubio. Not both.

[GopherIt!]

this trade Big Al talk needs a rest.

I'm really happy with Jefferson. I think we are very fortunate to have him on our team. I hate the talk of completely abandoning the half court offense. The games slow down in the post season and most teams need to be able to use a half court offense to score. The triangle has only really worked in the playoffs with an elite wing talent like Jordan and Kobe. I don't mind if we use it at times but I don't think it can be our bread-and-butter like going to Big Al down low is.

[AQuintus]

this trade Big Al talk needs a rest.

I'm really happy with Jefferson. I think we are very fortunate to have him on our team. I hate the talk of completely abandoning the half court offense. The games slow down in the post season and most teams need to be able to use a half court offense to score. The triangle has only really worked in the playoffs with an elite wing talent like Jordan and Kobe. I don't mind if we use it at times but I don't think it can be our bread-and-butter like going to Big Al down low is.

It might be just me, but when I think about trading Al, it has absolutely nothing to do with the team's offense and everything to do with the team's defense. Right now the Wolves' defense is absolutely brutal, and I personally don't see it getting better unless we replace either Al or Love with a stud big man defender. If we could move Al for a good defensive wing, that would be even better.

[Narf]

Might I suggest changing Rubio + Sessions into Flynn?
I like Flynn, but I am realistic about his talent. That gives them a good young PG with a higher ceiling than Sessions and leaves us with a solid lower tier starting PG who can easily shift to the bench as a combo guard when Rubio gets here.

That seems to upgrade the talent balance on both sides, and leaves us our shot at a superstar.

[Narf]

Another option would be Dunleavy, Granger, and TJ Ford for Flynn, Wayne Ellington, Brewer, a couple picks, and a ton of cap space. They would drop their salary something like 20 million dollars next year. We could throw in Gomes + Hollins for Jeff Foster too.

Cap space, picks, a handful of good young players who might develop, and dumping your bad contracts sounds about right for a star player. Then we bring Pekovic over with the MLE next year and make a go of it.