OT: Pacquiao-Mayweather fight off! [foreal this time]

[ManualRam]

^

It turned out the blood he gave for the Hatton test was 24 days before the fight. They had shot early footage, and didn't release it on 24/7 until later on.

Well that makes the 24 day cutoff make more sense. It still raises suspicions that he all of a sudden came up with the 30 day test free window when clearly it wasn't an issue before.

The way Pac has changed his reasons to not be blood tested it should raise flags.

First it was because he's scared of needles. But he has tattoos and there are publicly available pics of him getting them done looking perfectly fine.

This was never never true. Whoever circulated that needle thing is an exaggeration and did not come from Pac himself. The reason why Pac is not ameanable to random blood testing is because of his experience in 1st Morales fight. Plain and simple.

I think it was Roach or Arum that made the assertion. I believe whoever it was that said said Manny is "petrified" of needles.

The assertion that Manny needs such an early cutoff date for the testing is simply indefensible. A world class athlete can't recover from giving blood two weeks before his event? We know that isn't true. World class athletes undergo the USADA testing all the time without ill effects.

Then doesn't want to give blood so close to the fight, no sooner than 30 days before to be exact. But he's on film being blood tested for HIV 14 days before the Hatton fight.

Mayweather says 14 days before the fight, now the fight is off. Arum hangs up the phone on a reporter who asks about them not accepting 14 days compromise.

Also, according to a poster here, you submit to random urine testing, but the blood tests need to be scheduled?

Before you get into this. Answer me straight on, has it ever been proven that blood testing is more effective than urine testing in detecting HGH and EPOs?

First off, that is irrelevant in the context of this debate, as:
1. The objections from Manny and his camp have never been based on challenging the effectiveness of blood testing. You're serving to deflect away from dealing with the arguments the actual parties involved in the real life debate have made by instead debating the medical merits of blood testing.
2. that has nothing to do with the issue I was raising, which is that Manny and his camp continuing to make lame, conflicting excuses on not agreeing to the testing.

As to your question, no, I haven't thoroughly researched the merits of different drug testing methods, but the general consensus from what I've seen seems to indicate that at the least urine testing alone is not sufficient:
http://www.science.org.au/nova/055/055key.htm
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Resources1/Q ... od-Doping/

blood testing is invasive, disruptive and would be a huge disruption given a short fight camp. imagine being pulled out of a heavy sparring session or while doing your roadwork, go through the whole process of taking blood and then going through the whole recovery process, which, who knows how long it takes for manny to recover. you cant just jump back into a sparring session or finish your roadwork immediately after a blood test like you can after a piss test. now you can go ahead and say, well, floyd is doing the same thing. it doesnt matter to manny's camp what floyd is doing, they do not want THEIR camp disrupted, especially given the short turnaround for them and the shortened fight camp in general.

as for those excuses, there was obviously some disconnect and a little bit of embellishment on arum's part, but manny never said he was scared of needles or scared of giving blood. nothing of that sort. all he said was that he feels weakened when giving blood. whether physically or psychologically, he felt weakened in the morales fight.

also, he never refused to give blood. maybe urine testing alone is not sufficient, but random urine testing throughout training camp + blood tests before and after the fight are.

[ManualRam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anaGcmDIwNQ

Teddy Atlas says he has a source he trusts who tells him that Manny's camp sent the Mayweather camp two emails asking:

1. what the penalty would be for a dirty test
2. if Manny did test positive, could the test results be kept secret "for the good of the sport"

Atlas says a NYT reporter also has reported the same thing.

rumors rumors rumors.
there was also a $10 million penalty offered by manny's side, should a fighter come up dirty. team floyd refused.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxin ... o-is-dirty

[dougthonus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anaGcmDIwNQ

Teddy Atlas says he has a source he trusts who tells him that Manny's camp sent the Mayweather camp two emails asking:

1. what the penalty would be for a dirty test
2. if Manny did test positive, could the test results be kept secret "for the good of the sport"

Atlas says a NYT reporter also has reported the same thing.

rumors rumors rumors.
there was also a $10 million penalty offered by manny's side, should a fighter come up dirty. team floyd refused.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxin ... o-is-dirty

Well no crap they refused. If Manny won't agree to the testing they feel is required to prove he's not cheating what the hell good is a 10 million dollar penalty if it's proven that he cheats.

Manny could offer 100 kajillion dollars if he comes up dirty but won't take the tests they feel is required to prove it.

[Betta Bulleavit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anaGcmDIwNQ

Teddy Atlas says he has a source he trusts who tells him that Manny's camp sent the Mayweather camp two emails asking:

1. what the penalty would be for a dirty test
2. if Manny did test positive, could the test results be kept secret "for the good of the sport"

Atlas says a NYT reporter also has reported the same thing.

rumors rumors rumors.
there was also a $10 million penalty offered by manny's side, should a fighter come up dirty. team floyd refused.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxin ... o-is-dirty

Okay ManualRam, its apparent that you arnt going to agree with any position that isnt Pro-Manny. We get that. But you have to (at the very least) acknowledge that some of the statements from Manny's camp come off as somewhat suspect with regards to the drug testing.

I (personally) dont see any problem with the requests on the part of Mayweather and his camp. People are quick to throw out the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test before but lets be realistic. I know alot of guys that I have watched do drugs but have never failed a drug test in their life. There is no report of Sammy Sosa failing any drug tests but in the eyes of the public, you almost know he took steriods at one point or another. So the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test holds very little weight with me.

At the end of the day, I dont think that this has anything to do with either fighter being scared to fight the other. I just think that the two are way too accomplished for that. I think that both sides recognize whats at stake with this fight and wants the fight to be as much on their own terms as possible. Based on all of the information provided, it seems like Floyd (initially) made unreasonalbe demands, the terms ended up coming much closer to what Manny wanted and the lone issue remains the drug testing methods, which Floyd refuses to budge on. But lets not sit here and act like Manny's demands have not been catered to. It just seems to me like Manny's camp wants their cake and to eat it too. And for the record, I am not for or against either fighter. I am a boxing fan and have been since I was 6. Im a fan of the sport and not of any particular fighter. So Im just calling it how I see it.

[ManualRam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anaGcmDIwNQ

Teddy Atlas says he has a source he trusts who tells him that Manny's camp sent the Mayweather camp two emails asking:

1. what the penalty would be for a dirty test
2. if Manny did test positive, could the test results be kept secret "for the good of the sport"

Atlas says a NYT reporter also has reported the same thing.

rumors rumors rumors.
there was also a $10 million penalty offered by manny's side, should a fighter come up dirty. team floyd refused.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxin ... o-is-dirty

Well no crap they refused. If Manny won't agree to the testing they feel is required to prove he's not cheating what the hell good is a 10 million dollar penalty if it's proven that he cheats.

Manny could offer 100 kajillion dollars if he comes up dirty but won't take the tests they feel is required to prove it.

its called speaking your opponents language and putting your money where your mouth is.
if anybody tests dirty, the opponent gets free money.

edit: also, do you think random urine testing throughout training camp + blood testing before and immediately after the fight is inadequate? if so, why?
manny wouldve agreed to that + the dirty penalty.

[ManualRam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anaGcmDIwNQ

Teddy Atlas says he has a source he trusts who tells him that Manny's camp sent the Mayweather camp two emails asking:

1. what the penalty would be for a dirty test
2. if Manny did test positive, could the test results be kept secret "for the good of the sport"

Atlas says a NYT reporter also has reported the same thing.

rumors rumors rumors.
there was also a $10 million penalty offered by manny's side, should a fighter come up dirty. team floyd refused.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxin ... o-is-dirty

Okay ManualRam, its apparent that you arnt going to agree with any position that isnt Pro-Manny. We get that. But you have to (at the very least) acknowledge that some of the statements from Manny's camp come off as somewhat suspect with regards to the drug testing.

I (personally) dont see any problem with the requests on the part of Mayweather and his camp. People are quick to throw out the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test before but lets be realistic. I know alot of guys that I have watched do drugs but have never failed a drug test in their life. There is no report of Sammy Sosa failing any drug tests but in the eyes of the public, you almost know he took steriods at one point or another. So the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test holds very little weight with me.

At the end of the day, I dont think that this has anything to do with either fighter being scared to fight the other. I just think that the two are way too accomplished for that. I think that both sides recognize whats at stake with this fight and wants the fight to be as much on their own terms as possible. Based on all of the information provided, it seems like Floyd (initially) made unreasonalbe demands, the terms ended up coming much closer to what Manny wanted and the lone issue remains the drug testing methods, which Floyd refuses to budge on. But lets not sit here and act like Manny's demands have not been catered to. It just seems to me like Manny's camp wants their cake and to eat it too. And for the record, I am not for or against either fighter. I am a boxing fan and have been since I was 6. Im a fan of the sport and not of any particular fighter. So Im just calling it how I see it.

sosa argument is rather weak. NSAC testing uses WADA's list of prohibited substances. same thing with the IOC and USADA. NSAC has year round random drug testing.
did baseball have anything close to that?
as for manny's camp wanting their cake and want to eat it too, i agree.
both camp's want leverage which is exactly the reason why mayweather wanted random blood testing after catching wind of what manny said after the first morales fight.
floyd doesnt care about the good of the sport. he's never cared about a level playing field (just look at his last fight). he wants extra blood testing becuz he wants leverage in this fight.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Okay ManualRam, its apparent that you arnt going to agree with any position that isnt Pro-Manny. We get that. But you have to (at the very least) acknowledge that some of the statements from Manny's camp come off as somewhat suspect with regards to the drug testing.

I (personally) dont see any problem with the requests on the part of Mayweather and his camp. People are quick to throw out the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test before but lets be realistic. I know alot of guys that I have watched do drugs but have never failed a drug test in their life. There is no report of Sammy Sosa failing any drug tests but in the eyes of the public, you almost know he took steriods at one point or another. So the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test holds very little weight with me.

At the end of the day, I dont think that this has anything to do with either fighter being scared to fight the other. I just think that the two are way too accomplished for that. I think that both sides recognize whats at stake with this fight and wants the fight to be as much on their own terms as possible. Based on all of the information provided, it seems like Floyd (initially) made unreasonalbe demands, the terms ended up coming much closer to what Manny wanted and the lone issue remains the drug testing methods, which Floyd refuses to budge on. But lets not sit here and act like Manny's demands have not been catered to. It just seems to me like Manny's camp wants their cake and to eat it too. And for the record, I am not for or against either fighter. I am a boxing fan and have been since I was 6. Im a fan of the sport and not of any particular fighter. So Im just calling it how I see it.

sosa argument is rather weak. NSAC testing uses WADA's list of prohibited substances. same thing with the IOC and USADA. NSAC has year round random drug testing.
did baseball have anything close to that?
as for manny's camp wanting their cake and want to eat it too, i agree.
both camp's want leverage which is exactly the reason why mayweather wanted random blood testing after catching wind of what manny said after the first morales fight.
floyd doesnt care about the good of the sport. he's never cared about a level playing field (just look at his last fight). he wants extra blood testing becuz he wants leverage in this fight.

On the part in bold. Mayweather came in two pounds overweight. Thats documented, everyone understands this. Now, I am assuming that you saw the Mayweather/Marquez fight. So I will ask you this, what did you see? Now, my opinion is that of just one individual (me) and what I saw was complete and utter domination on the part of Mayweather. So then....you have to ask yourself if those two pounds created that big of a difference? I mean, Floyd was going to win that fight wether he was two pounds over or 5 pounds under.

And on the last part of your statement, just as easily as you can conclude that Floyd wants the extra blood testing so that he can have an advantage, you could just as easily conclude that the reason that Manny and his camp are so opposed to the random drug testing (and timeline of it) is because they know they have somthing to hide. Crazy how it goes both ways isnt it??

[ManualRam]

Okay ManualRam, its apparent that you arnt going to agree with any position that isnt Pro-Manny. We get that. But you have to (at the very least) acknowledge that some of the statements from Manny's camp come off as somewhat suspect with regards to the drug testing.

I (personally) dont see any problem with the requests on the part of Mayweather and his camp. People are quick to throw out the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test before but lets be realistic. I know alot of guys that I have watched do drugs but have never failed a drug test in their life. There is no report of Sammy Sosa failing any drug tests but in the eyes of the public, you almost know he took steriods at one point or another. So the fact that Manny has never failed a drug test holds very little weight with me.

At the end of the day, I dont think that this has anything to do with either fighter being scared to fight the other. I just think that the two are way too accomplished for that. I think that both sides recognize whats at stake with this fight and wants the fight to be as much on their own terms as possible. Based on all of the information provided, it seems like Floyd (initially) made unreasonalbe demands, the terms ended up coming much closer to what Manny wanted and the lone issue remains the drug testing methods, which Floyd refuses to budge on. But lets not sit here and act like Manny's demands have not been catered to. It just seems to me like Manny's camp wants their cake and to eat it too. And for the record, I am not for or against either fighter. I am a boxing fan and have been since I was 6. Im a fan of the sport and not of any particular fighter. So Im just calling it how I see it.

sosa argument is rather weak. NSAC testing uses WADA's list of prohibited substances. same thing with the IOC and USADA. NSAC has year round random drug testing.
did baseball have anything close to that?
as for manny's camp wanting their cake and want to eat it too, i agree.
both camp's want leverage which is exactly the reason why mayweather wanted random blood testing after catching wind of what manny said after the first morales fight.
floyd doesnt care about the good of the sport. he's never cared about a level playing field (just look at his last fight). he wants extra blood testing becuz he wants leverage in this fight.

On the part in bold. Mayweather came in two pounds overweight. Thats documented, everyone understands this. Now, I am assuming that you saw the Mayweather/Marquez fight. So I will ask you this, what did you see? Now, my opinion is that of just one individual (me) and what I saw was complete and utter domination on the part of Mayweather. So then....you have to ask yourself if those two pounds created that big of a difference? I mean, Floyd was going to win that fight wether he was two pounds over or 5 pounds under.

And on the last part of your statement, just as easily as you can conclude that Floyd wants the extra blood testing so that he can have an advantage, you could just as easily conclude that the reason that Manny and his camp are so opposed to the random drug testing (and timeline of it) is because they know they have somthing to hide. Crazy how it goes both ways isnt it??

i agree, floyd wouldve won regardless, but the whole mayweather/ marquez fight was not on a level playing field. getting a junior lightweight to come up 2 1/2 weight classes and then not even bothering to make weight is not on the level. it was an obvious physical mismatch. i mean how long has floyd been campaigning at welter, but he hasnt faced a legitimate welter. when has he ever demanded olympic style blood testing in any of his previous 40 fights? were those fights not on the level?

you're right about the latter part. both sides want leverage. i just personally dont believe manny is refusing becuz he is hiding something.

[Beryl 96]

Sort of skipped the last few pages, but to those saying Floyd is the one making crazy demands, first off, whats so crazy about them, something like this could very well become the norm in the sport, This is possibly the biggest fight in boxing history, certainly the most profitable. It is featuring the two biggest names in the sport, one of which has made history coming up the ranks and divisions as he has, its clearly going to raise some eyebrows, and it has even before Floyd put the issue into the spotlight.

Secondly Manny was the who started with the silly demands, demanding what was it, a million dollar penalty for every pound you come in over the limit? Floyd agreed without much fuss, But Floyd makes his demand that IMO is very smart of him to do(to help make sure he his legacy isn't on the line against a cheat, not because he doesn't want the fight) and because Manny doesn't agree despite Floyd budging twice, he is the one with unreasonable demands.

I'm a boxing fan, but I'm not much of a fan of either of these guys, I'm probably more of a Manny fan due to I don't like Floyd apparently ducking many legit welterweights and being a bit of a cock, but as for his actual in ring fighting, I probably prefer his style more. That said I'm placing the blame here on Manny for the fight not getting made. He should've known that if he was going to continue the way he has and if he eventually came to a table with somebody with a legacy as big as Floyd's to lose, this would come up, I've started questioning him in this regard since Hatton, not that I expected Hatton to win, but it just so happened then that I started to wonder, in the run up to the Cotto fight I really started wondering about him. In this era of sports, I think he should do it, for the fans if nothing else, Obviously if he is taking something that won't be much of an option for him unless he is able to keep it on the downlow as the rumor posted earlier on this page seems to indicate.

[CjayC]

well i guess manny is taking on joshua clottey. i wonder who mayweather fights because clottey is a beast and i would be more impressed with a win over clottey then i was against cotto. we'll see

Clottey's not the impressive.

Lets see, he has good defense and a chin made out of titaniu. Good hand speed(Can throw combos in spurts). Bad stamina, no lateral movement, no head movement.

Another tailor made opponent for Pacqiuao, but this one probably won't be knocked out.

[Benedict Miller]

well i guess manny is taking on joshua clottey. i wonder who mayweather fights because clottey is a beast and i would be more impressed with a win over clottey then i was against cotto. we'll see

Clottey's not the impressive.

Lets see, he has good defense and a chin made out of titaniu. Good hand speed(Can throw combos in spurts). Bad stamina, no lateral movement, no head movement.

Another tailor made opponent for Pacqiuao, but this one probably won't be knocked out.

With all that said, I thought he beat Cotto. So he's no push over.

[Blame Rasho]

I'm not a boxing fan. But its so obvious reading this thread that pretty much all of you have "your guy" and are just falling into party lines - whichever party that may be.

A 14 day drug test, as Mayweather says he was willing to agree to, is not unreasonable. You can't say its unreasonable with a straight face either.

Let see... you are not a fan ok. Fine. So you are ok but you are other people slandering other people?

Here is a quote from someone who tries and slanders the sport at every chance.

It’s crazy I don’t think the fight will happen. I think this… Pacquiao’s never failed a drug test ever! Whose Floyd to say you have to take a Olympic style drug test? I’d do the same thing Pacquiao’s doing, really ( it’s like saying)I want you to get an enema… I mean fighters decide what fighters are gonna do? That is what the commission is there for. The athletic commission is there for the safety of the fighters they drug test, they blood test, they do all those other things. For another fighter to call another fighter out over for some type of blood work is crazy! Just train for the fight and fight that’s what everybody wants to see…I wanna see this fight I’m dying to see this fight.”

I guess we should obey every demand for every fighter, every player, every employee because someone had a problem with another person.

[Blame Rasho]

you said it's been yrs since you seen him hurt someone. he put down corrales in the last 2 rounds and was on the verge of stopping him til chico did his whole mouthpiece spitting routine.
i'll agree, the cruz fight was an early stoppage, but clottey had him staggered and hurt with left hooks in that round.
clottey can bang. his shots are short and precise, but like a lot of ghanaian fighters, they are too square and dont completely turn over their punches, but clottey does have a very good arsenal. heavy jab, left hook, sharp right and he's got great uppercuts with both fists.
with wink all you had to be concerned about was the 1 and 2 with the occasional right hook to the body.

Corrales was a shell of his formerself. If you want to put alot of stock into a fight where he was fighting a blownup and shot lightweight where he walked into the ring weighing 170, that is your prerogative. I see it that it was a totally an unimpressive outing vs a fighter who wasn't even a contending fighter at the time at a weight that he had never fought before.

The reason I made the Wright parallel is because they were fighters who nobody ever wants to face unless they have to. They are hard to look good against because of their crab style D and you have to earn the W.

[Blame Rasho]

i agree, floyd wouldve won regardless, but the whole mayweather/ marquez fight was not on a level playing field. getting a junior lightweight to come up 2 1/2 weight classes and then not even bothering to make weight is not on the level. it was an obvious physical mismatch. i mean how long has floyd been campaigning at welter, but he hasnt faced a legitimate welter. when has he ever demanded olympic style blood testing in any of his previous 40 fights? were those fights not on the level?

you're right about the latter part. both sides want leverage. i just personally dont believe manny is refusing becuz he is hiding something.

The idea that he is above the rules is what pisses off boxing fans. Why didn't Mayweather have his panties in a bunch and ask Marquez to get drug tested? He beat the linear champ( Casamayor) by KO. He had never been KO'ed ever in his life and he had faced big lightweights in Corrales(5'10), Frietas( over 80% KO ratio), and etc. He later KO'ed in most people eyes the #1 light weight in Diaz who at one point held 3 belts at lightweight and had never been stopped.

The fact that he said **** this, I don't need to be subject to the catch weight is throwing the middle finger to contract at hand says that he is not subject to whatever else is subject to.

It doesn't matter... history isn't going to look good on him compared to his peers. I damn... when you have Judah,Baldomir, Hatton( who is crap runned over at welterweight) and Marquez( lol) as your welterweight resume... it speaks for itself.

[nba_addict]

The assertion that Manny needs such an early cutoff date for the testing is simply indefensible. A world class athlete can't recover from giving blood two weeks before his event? We know that isn't true. World class athletes undergo the USADA testing all the time without ill effects.

My speculation as to why. I dont know how training is done in other sports but I will assume professional boxing training has the most intense training of all sports. Boxing doesnt rely much on strength training but on intense training and letting your body unleash its full on certain period of time. I tried googling articles about the average calories burned by a boxer during workouts compared to other sports but no success.

The average professional boxing training is 8-10 weeks. Assuming an 8 week training, the routine is set where training aims for the boxer to hit his 100% around 5 to 7th week. This is usually the time period where you will hear guy like Roach and other trainers declare that their boxer is at 100% and will kill anyone. Between 7th to 8th week, this is the period where the level of training go down to around 70-60% of the most intense training during that 8 week period for the boxer to settle and prepare for his dehydration.

If your a boxer not used to draining blood in this period of time, why would you risk something for the biggest fight of your career. Mayweather is regularly hitting the gym since November. Manny has been all over attending parties and movie premiers since Pac-Cotto fight. This fight is vastly approaching and considering Manny will not be able to complete his minimum 8 week training this time, you still want someone breaking your routine during the most intense period of your workout.

People think its easy to drain blood, rest for an hour or two, and then proceed with your most intense training workout is as easy as chewing bubble gum. If the amout of blood drained is similar to the amount drained to check your blood type then this is not an issue.

Before you get into this. Answer me straight on, has it ever been proven that blood testing is more effective than urine testing in detecting HGH and EPOs?

First off, that is irrelevant in the context of this debate, as:
1. The objections from Manny and his camp have never been based on challenging the effectiveness of blood testing. You're serving to deflect away from dealing with the arguments the actual parties involved in the real life debate have made by instead debating the medical merits of blood testing.
2. that has nothing to do with the issue I was raising, which is that Manny and his camp continuing to make lame, conflicting excuses on not agreeing to the testing.

As to your question, no, I haven't thoroughly researched the merits of different drug testing methods, but the general consensus from what I've seen seems to indicate that at the least urine testing alone is not sufficient:
http://www.science.org.au/nova/055/055key.htm
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Resources1/Q ... od-Doping/

See my response above.

Olympic Tests Have Never Detected HGH in an Athlete: USADA Backs Urine

Last year, USADA released a statement that a nanotechnology has been developed that can detect HGH in urine.

Again, I will raise my question. Why is blood test necessary?

[ManualRam]

you said it's been yrs since you seen him hurt someone. he put down corrales in the last 2 rounds and was on the verge of stopping him til chico did his whole mouthpiece spitting routine.
i'll agree, the cruz fight was an early stoppage, but clottey had him staggered and hurt with left hooks in that round.
clottey can bang. his shots are short and precise, but like a lot of ghanaian fighters, they are too square and dont completely turn over their punches, but clottey does have a very good arsenal. heavy jab, left hook, sharp right and he's got great uppercuts with both fists.
with wink all you had to be concerned about was the 1 and 2 with the occasional right hook to the body.

Corrales was a shell of his formerself. If you want to put alot of stock into a fight where he was fighting a blownup and shot lightweight where he walked into the ring weighing 170, that is your prerogative. I see it that it was a totally an unimpressive outing vs a fighter who wasn't even a contending fighter at the time at a weight that he had never fought before.

The reason I made the Wright parallel is because they were fighters who nobody ever wants to face unless they have to. They are hard to look good against because of their crab style D and you have to earn the W.

i didnt say i put a lot of stock in either fight i mentioned, just that clottey hurt, KD and staggered his opponents in that fight. you said you havent seen clottey hurt anybody in a while.

do you think clottey is a feather-fisted welterweight? and lb for lb who was the heavier puncher b/t he and wink?

btw what's your take on floyd's use of Xylocaine?
http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 01-09.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 019074.ece
kinda ironic.

[dougthonus]

its called speaking your opponents language and putting your money where your mouth is.
if anybody tests dirty, the opponent gets free money.

edit: also, do you think random urine testing throughout training camp + blood testing before and immediately after the fight is inadequate? if so, why?
manny wouldve agreed to that + the dirty penalty.

I believe you need blood tests to do HGH testing, so no, I don't think urine testing is enough.

Also, whether I believe it's enough is rather irrelevant. Floyd doesn't think it's enough. If Floyd doesn't think the testing Manny will agree to is enough, then Manny's agreement to pay out if he fails is absolutely meaningless. How you can not see such a simple connection is beyond me.

[ManualRam]

its called speaking your opponents language and putting your money where your mouth is.
if anybody tests dirty, the opponent gets free money.

edit: also, do you think random urine testing throughout training camp + blood testing before and immediately after the fight is inadequate? if so, why?
manny wouldve agreed to that + the dirty penalty.

I believe you need blood tests to do HGH testing, so no, I don't think urine testing is enough.

Also, whether I believe it's enough is rather irrelevant. Floyd doesn't think it's enough. If Floyd doesn't think the testing Manny will agree to is enough, then Manny's agreement to pay out if he fails is absolutely meaningless. How you can not see such a simple connection is beyond me.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3211 ... acks-urine

The only problem is that these random blood tests have never—yes that's right—never found Human Growth Hormone in any Olympic athlete that has ever been tested.

What this means, simply, is that HGH use is now detectable through testing of urine samples and the breakthrough technology is officially ready to "Rock-and-Roll."

what either fighter thinks the testing process should be is irrelevant.
screening process should be up to the commission in charge of the fight. if floyd or any other fighter wants to change the screening process, do it the right way. they should state their case and petition the commission to change their protocols, but in no way should one athlete dictate what the screening process should be.

the point that i've made throughout this thread is that the testing that manny had agreed to, IMO is adequate.
i think i've backed up my case pretty well.

[CjayC]

well i guess manny is taking on joshua clottey. i wonder who mayweather fights because clottey is a beast and i would be more impressed with a win over clottey then i was against cotto. we'll see

Clottey's not the impressive.

Lets see, he has good defense and a chin made out of titaniu. Good hand speed(Can throw combos in spurts). Bad stamina, no lateral movement, no head movement.

Another tailor made opponent for Pacqiuao, but this one probably won't be knocked out.

With all that said, I thought he beat Cotto. So he's no push over.

Styles make fights.

What could be easy pickings for one guy, another guy can have the fight of his life. It just depends on the fighters style whether they have a tough time with him or not(Regardless of how good or world renown the fighter is).

[CjayC]

you said it's been yrs since you seen him hurt someone. he put down corrales in the last 2 rounds and was on the verge of stopping him til chico did his whole mouthpiece spitting routine.
i'll agree, the cruz fight was an early stoppage, but clottey had him staggered and hurt with left hooks in that round.
clottey can bang. his shots are short and precise, but like a lot of ghanaian fighters, they are too square and dont completely turn over their punches, but clottey does have a very good arsenal. heavy jab, left hook, sharp right and he's got great uppercuts with both fists.
with wink all you had to be concerned about was the 1 and 2 with the occasional right hook to the body.

Corrales was a shell of his formerself. If you want to put alot of stock into a fight where he was fighting a blownup and shot lightweight where he walked into the ring weighing 170, that is your prerogative. I see it that it was a totally an unimpressive outing vs a fighter who wasn't even a contending fighter at the time at a weight that he had never fought before.

The reason I made the Wright parallel is because they were fighters who nobody ever wants to face unless they have to. They are hard to look good against because of their crab style D and you have to earn the W.

i didnt say i put a lot of stock in either fight i mentioned, just that clottey hurt, KD and staggered his opponents in that fight. you said you havent seen clottey hurt anybody in a while.

do you think clottey is a feather-fisted welterweight? and lb for lb who was the heavier puncher b/t he and wink?

btw what's your take on floyd's use of Xylocaine?
http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 01-09.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 019074.ece
kinda ironic.

In that same article

The issue here in Las Vegas has been whether or not lidocaine was permissible. The drug is not on the banned list of the World AntiDoping Agency (Wada), yet it has been ruled illegal by the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC), under whose authority the contest is being run.

Kizer confirmed yesterday that lidocaine is banned for use by boxers within a week of a bout. “If lidocaine is injected,” he said, “the pain receptors in the boxer may not work and he may not know if he is hurt.” He also confirmed that lidocaine would be tested for after the bout, at the Quest Diagnostics laboratory in the city.

The Washington Post | February 19, 1989 |
In a prepared statement, British boxer Lloyd Honeyghan said he has requested a Nevada State Athletic Commission hearing after it said traces of Lidocaine, a banned painkiller, were found in his urine samples

this has been tested for the past 20 years in nevada........

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

Lidocaine is a substance banned by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. But Marc Ratner, CEO of the commission, said there is no violation as long as De La Hoya informed the commission when he took it and why.

If he went in th ring doped up on Lidocaine, the commission would know. If he's using masking agents so that Lidocaine wouldn't show up, they should be able to catch the agents if they find a disproportionate amount of something in his system. If they can't even do that, then it goes to show you how good the Commissions tests are.