mn / atl : wouldja Hawks fans

Jumping to Pass · Post #1 » by **Jumping to Pass** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:39 am

Al Jefferson
Ryan Gomes

for

Horford
Marvin
ZaZa

wouldja?

raleigh · Post #2 » by **raleigh** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:44 am

I'm not in management, but my general sense is that Horford is untouchable.

I've been floating the idea of a Marvin -for- Gomes/filler swap for some time. I think it makes sense for both teams...

Jumping to Pass · Post #3 » by **Jumping to Pass** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:52 am

mrhonline wrote:I'm not in management, but my general sense is that Horford is untouchable.

I've been floating the idea of a Marvin -for- Gomes/filler swap for some time. I think it makes sense for both teams...

I would love to deal Gomes for Marvin. Makes sense for both teams.

raleigh · Post #4 » by **raleigh** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:01 am

The question is...what's the filler?

I want Pekovic. You in? LOL.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #5 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:03 am

I cant beleive Marvin would get traded after signing that contract. Hes ours unless something catastrophic happens with him

raleigh · Post #6 » by **raleigh** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:04 am

Minnesota is a perfect fit for Marvin, IMHO.

Jumping to Pass · Post #7 » by **Jumping to Pass** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:35 am

mrhonline wrote:The question is...what's the filler?

I want Pekovic. You in? LOL.

the filler is you get the same production at half the cost. Or opt out of Gomes voidable deal in order to free up $ to re-sign JJ.
no to Pekovic

if a 3rd team is involved (jersey) mn could send out Gomes (ATL) Wilkins (NJ) + a 2nd rounder to NJ in exchange for Williams.

Skyhawk1 · Post #8 » by **Skyhawk1** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:55 am

I'm one of these guy who think Horford is untouchable. He won't be the best player on our team, but he will sure be the most valuable. It's funny that people praise Smith whenever he's got good numbers, and the same is just not true for Al. In just over 2 years I'm more sure about building this team around this guy than anyone else. I'd love to pair him with Al Jefferson. He would make A. Jefferson look better on D, and could be playing PF. The odd man out is Smith just cause he is inconsistent and has a bunch of flaws mainly rebounding. Like I said b4, the Hawks will never be an elite team with Al and Smith in the frontcourt. We're going to destroy teams like the Bucks, Raptors, Wizards and most of the perennial teams, then when it's about the big boys club ( Lakers, Cavs, Magic ), we won't have a chance.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #9 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:12 am

Skyhawk1 wrote:I'm one of these guy who think Horford is untouchable. He won't be the best player on our team, but he will sure be the most valuable. It's funny that people praise Smith whenever he's got good numbers, and the same is just not true for Al. In just over 2 years I'm more sure about building this team around this guy than anyone else. I'd love to pair him with Al Jefferson. He would make A. Jefferson look better on D, and could be playing PF. The odd man out is Smith just cause he is inconsistent and has a bunch of flaws mainly rebounding. Like I said b4, the Hawks will never be an elite team with Al and Smith in the frontcourt. We're going to destroy teams like the Bucks, Raptors, Wizards and most of the perennial teams, then when it's about the big boys club ( Lakers, Cavs, Magic ), we won't have a chance.

I think we will always have a chance agasinst those big teams but our mental weaknesses will prohibit them from making that jump. Sad, but true. Josh isnt gonna get traded, neither is Al and I doubt Marvin will either. Joe is the only main piece that looks moveable and that will be via FA. Changes need to occur if they want to make that jump.

evildallas · Post #10 » by **evildallas** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:41 am

I'm curious why is Jefferson being shopped?

Harry10 · Post #11 » by **Harry10** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:33 am

Horford is better than Jefferson
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=974960

Marvin and Zaza for Jefferson?

Joe for Jefferson and Brewer (or Damien)???

Harry10 · Post #12 » by **Harry10** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:34 am

evildallas wrote:I'm curious why is Jefferson being shopped?

isn't McHale still GM?

LL Cool Scott · Post #13 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:41 pm

I'd take Jefferson over Horford. Jefferson is a really really rare thing - a post player who can score easy buckets and demands a double team. We don't have that here. Horford's D is much better, but Jefferson is simply a more valuable player. You can run an offense inside-out through him. And I LOVE Horford. But Jefferson makes us a better team, especially when Joe leaves this offseason and we lose all that scoring next year.

None of this is going to happen, by the way.

raleigh · Post #14 » by **raleigh** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:56 pm

Jumping to Pass wrote:the filler is you get the same production at half the cost. Or opt out of Gomes voidable deal in order to free up $ to re-sign JJ.
no to Pekovic

I can understand not wanting to part with Pekovic. But I don't see Gomes/Marvin as equal in terms of value.

On offense, they're comparable. (Remarkably so. Look at their advanced stats on B-R.com). Marvin's better at getting to the line, Gomes is better from the perimeter by a small bit. Marvin is more athletic, Gomes has more heart (subjective, of course).

That said, Marvin is longer, taller, and a better defender. He's also several years younger and far underutilized on his current squad. He's worth more than Gomes.

For Minnesota, the extra money is not a problem, because, like Atlanta, they're going to have a hard time attracting young FA's without drastically overpaying. (See Johnson, Joe). For Atlanta, Marvin is paid too much for his current and (likely) long-term role on the team.

if a 3rd team is involved (jersey) mn could send out Gomes (ATL) Wilkins (NJ) + a 2nd rounder to NJ in exchange for Williams.

You can do that trade easily by adding in Randolph Morris -for- Nathan Jawai, the two teams end-of-rotation big bodies. Wilkins would go into cardiac arrest to learn he's been acquired by the Hawks. He'd probably overperform a bit.

Gomes/Wilkins/Jawai/pick -for- Williams/Morris

I'd consider the 2nd rounder as a Hawks' fan, if it's Minny's own pick. I'd prefer a lottery-protected first rounder, since Minnesota has a couple of those to spare in the next year or two.

Post #15 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:57 pm

Harry10 wrote:
evildallas wrote:I'm curious why is Jefferson being shopped?

isn't McHale still GM?

David Kahn is the GM and his first trade with Minny was the big trade with Washington that involved Mike Miller and Randy Foye.

Kevin McHale works at the studios for NBATV.

Harry10 · Post #16 » by **Harry10** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:45 am

LL Cool Scott wrote:I'd take Jefferson over Horford. Jefferson is a really really rare thing - a post player who can score easy buckets and demands a double team. We don't have that here. Horford's D is much better, but Jefferson is simply a more valuable player. You can run an offense inside-out through him. And I LOVE Horford. But Jefferson makes us a better team, especially when Joe leaves this offseason and we lose all that scoring next year.

None of this is going to happen, by the way.

Jefferson is really good at what he does, but i think if you put Jefferson on the Hawks, you make the Hawks a one dimensional team, and you do take away the Hawks' identity, which has been for this season, superb post defense.

if Joe leaves, you can still use the cap space to sign a decent mid level free agent, and still keep Horford and Marvin.

tontoz · Post #17 » by **tontoz** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:41 pm

Harry10 wrote:
LL Cool Scott wrote:I'd take Jefferson over Horford. Jefferson is a really really rare thing - a post player who can score easy buckets and demands a double team. We don't have that here. Horford's D is much better, but Jefferson is simply a more valuable player. You can run an offense inside-out through him. And I LOVE Horford. But Jefferson makes us a better team, especially when Joe leaves this offseason and we lose all that scoring next year.

None of this is going to happen, by the way.

Jefferson is really good at what he does, but i think if you put Jefferson on the Hawks, you make the Hawks a one dimensional team, and you do take away the Hawks' identity, which has been for this season, superb post defense.

if Joe leaves, you can still use the cap space to sign a decent mid level free agent, and still keep Horford and Marvin.

Superb post defense? What team have you been watching? The Hawks are 23rd in opponents points in the paint and 19th in defensive rebounding rate. Ask Dwight Howard about our superb post defense.

Jefferson averaged 23/11 last year. This deal is a no brainer.

EventHorizon · Post #18 » by **EventHorizon** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:34 pm

I do not intend to hijack the thread, but would ATL be interested in Williams+Evans for Turkoglu? I think it makes your team much better.

MaceCase · Post #19 » by **MaceCase** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:12 pm

EventHorizon wrote:I do not intend to hijack the thread, but would ATL be interested in Williams+Evans for Turkoglu? I think it makes your team much better.

Ha! Some are complaining about Marvin's production due to his cost and you think a guy earning 15 million more over the life of his contract all while only being slightly more productive and much older is a solution? Pass!

EventHorizon · Post #20 » by **EventHorizon** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:44 am

MaceCase wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:I do not intend to hijack the thread, but would ATL be interested in Williams+Evans for Turkoglu? I think it makes your team much better.

Ha! Some are complaining about Marvin's production due to his cost and you think a guy earning 15 million more over the life of his contract all while only being slightly more productive and much older is a solution? Pass!

Turk is better than his stats show. We in Toronto don't have a true post presence that he can play with, you guys have Horford. I'm not sure how your ball handling is, but I'm sure he will give you an edge in the playoffs. Toronto will take a bad contract if you have any.