Thunder notebook: David Lee in OKC?

[TheOGJabroni]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/63981/20100112/lee_says_itd_be_fun_to_play_in_okc/

I've been on this board quite a bit and completely agree with the way you posters think and the way your GM is running things within the OKC organization. OKC is spending their money wisely and not just signing max contract players simply because the money is there to spend. Sam Presti is meticulous in a great way. He won't spend the money unless he is certain that asset will truly help your team.

David Lee is a big time rebounding PF, with a growing offensive game. His struggles are there on defense, but he's still young enough to overcome this issue and become a solid defender. He's not going to demand max money on any team, but (this is me reading in between the lines) some of the quotes he used in that article make me feel like he's not going to be in it completely for the money, if he's going to be on a team that is going somewhere.

Russell Westbrook / Eric Maynor
Thabo Sefolosha / James Harden
Kevin Durant / Jeff Green
David Lee / Jeff Green
*big time post defense C* / Serge Ibaka

If Lee was added, a defensive minded C is all you would need from being an ELITE team a couple years down the road (if that long), IMO. And the scary thing is, the oldest player I listed is 26, David Lee. Simply put, this team is going somewhere.

[Balkman32]

Knicks forward David Lee sometimes is mentioned as a possible piece to add to Kevin Durant, Jeff Green and Russell Westbrook. Does Lee, a free agent in the ballyhooed 2010 class, feel he would fit in Oklahoma City?

"Any team that has cap space, you have to give thought to,” Lee said. "I got to spend time with all of three of them last summer at the Olympic camp in (Las) Vegas. They’re all good guys. I’ve known Jeff a couple of years. Anytime you have exciting young players, it would be a fun place to play.”

Even though Oklahoma City will be $14 million under the salary cap, Lee, who led the NBA in double-doubles last season and is averaging 19.1 points and 10.9 rebounds, realizes Thunder general manager Sam Presti’s long-term plan.

"They’re probably saving the Brinks truck for those three guys,” Lee said. "At this point there’s so much still to be seen. I’m just concentrating on helping this team, which can do some good things, then see how everything pans out this summer.”

OLLIE RETURNS
Kevin Ollie returned after missing six weeks following arthroscopic knee surgery but did not play vs. New York. That’s not a surprise. Eric Maynor was obtained in a trade with Utah just before Christmas to be Russell Westbrook’s backup.
"I feel good,” Ollie said. "I probably won’t be 100 percent, but (I) can go out and play my style of basketball. It’s good to be available. I realize coach (Scott Brooks) has to make a decision. You have to be content no matter how it works out. The one thing you can control is your attitude.”

FREE THROW IMPROVEMENT
The Thunder broke out of a two-week-long free throw slump, draining 20-of-24, Monday night. Oklahoma City was leading the league (80.2 percent) in free throw percentage through two months but dropped to third after shooting 65.6 percent its previous six games.

APRIL FOOL’S MEMORY
Knicks analyst Walt Frazier and Brooks were involved in a legendary April Fool’s joke in 1997. The story was Frazier, age 52 at the time, was coming out of retirement to sign a 10-day contract. Brooks was the player being cut to make room for Frazier.
"I got really angry, saying, ‘That guy can’t even dribble anymore,’” Brooks said. "I did a good acting job. I was mad, saying, ‘I can’t believe they cut me. I put so much work into this!’ ”

The joke included fake quotes on the Madison Square scoreboard. Frazier received calls from friends, excited he was playing again, even though the team finally told its audience the four-minute, pre-game segment was an April Fool’s hoax.

"They shot film that morning of me running on a treadmill,” Frazier said. "The funny thing is when they filmed me on the court, I didn’t miss a shot. I was surprised (Jeff) Van Gundy went along with it. Everybody fell for it hook, line (and sinker).”

[slick_watts]

I like David Lee but he'd have to replace Jeff Green. We can't have them both on the team at the same time, Jeff Green would hardly get any minutes playing behind Durant / Lee.

I think Lee would be a good fit next to the right kind of center but that complicates things a bit and I feel Lee will get way overpaid.

[TheOGJabroni]

I like David Lee but he'd have to replace Jeff Green. We can't have them both on the team at the same time, Jeff Green would hardly get any minutes playing behind Durant / Lee.

I think Lee would be a good fit next to the right kind of center but that complicates things a bit and I feel Lee will get way overpaid.

Lee is a PF, but he has shown he can play C on the Knicks. Definitely not someone you'd want starting at C, especially if Green was your PF, but I don't see why he couldn't play some backup C minutes.

Westbrook (36) / Maynor (12)
Sefolosha (28) / Harden (20)
Durant (40) / Green (8)
Lee (24) / Green (24)
*CENTER* (24) / Lee (12) / Ibaka (12)

so minutes wise, it looks like:
Durant - 40
Westbrook - 36
Lee - 36
Green - 32
Sefolosha - 28
*CENTER* - 24
Harden - 20
Maynor - 12
Ibaka - 12

That is 36 minutes for Lee and 32 for Green. While your starting lineup is much more balanced and Green will be playing a lot of time at PF against the opposing team's backups so he will not get destroyed defensively as much.

But of course you are right about Lee. If he does want money that will make him overpaid, you should pass. But if he's willing to sign a solid deal with OKC, I think you have to take him.

[PerkinsFor3]

Maybe you could trade your pick & Green for a pick around #8-10 and pick a good big man.

[TheOGJabroni]

And if you truly think Green can not be on the same team as Lee, what about this swap:

Nick Collison
Matt Harpring

for

Samuel Dalembert

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379000

Hear me out. I understand that Dalembert's contract is less than favorable, but if you look at his progression this year, each month his production is better and better. In December, in 23 minutes he average 6.5 points, 8.9 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks. Through 5 games in January so far, he has had one 20 point, 20 rebound game and is averaging 11.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, and 3 blocks per game, while shooting 70%. And once his contract is up, he will sign for a much smaller deal than his current contract.

After this trade, the difference in contracts for next year is about 5.5 million more for OKC. I'm not sure where people are getting the numbers from, but it has been said that there is 14 million available to spend in the offseason, so OKC would be left with 8.5 million instead. With a deal that has salary increases every year, David Lee could still sign in OKC. And in case he doesn't sign with OKC, the Thunder have two 1st rounders and Jeff Green to trade up in the draft to snag a big time PF.

You could trade both your 1st rounders and Green to a team high enough in the draft to take Derrick Favors or one of your 1st rounders and Green to a team high enough in the draft to take Greg Monroe.

Westbrook / Maynor
Sefolosha / Harden
Durant / Sefolosha
Lee or Favors or Monroe
Dalembert / Ibaka

That is an elite team very soon.

[Balkman32]

I think Green and Lee can co-exist like CELTICSinME said, Durnat can also play SG if you wanted to run Westbrook, Durant, Green, Lee and Kristic.

A trade of:

NYK Get: Harpring, Thomas, and Ollie(Not sure if he must be included)
OKC Get: Lee, Curry, 3 Million, and a first conditional round pick

David Lee would be a rent-a-player for the rest of the year to see how he fits. He would have to aggree to this trade, since he would reset his bird rights (I am not sure, hoe Lee and is agent look @ that). Curry contract would basically be paid for this year by NYK (the 3 million). But, we would owe him 11 million next season. I know 11 million is a hard chunk of change to swallow, for a guy who probally wont be playing. But, his deal is also expiring next season with Kristic, and Collison. Who knows maybe he can still play some ball.

[slick_watts]

First, I highly doubt that we make a trade for David Lee during this year; he's not a max player (not even close) so we will have the cap room to sign him outright to a reasonable contract in the offseason. No reason to waste picks or assets acquiring him.

Second, I wouldn't feel comfortable with Lee at center for any length of time during a game. He's a PF. He's a poor defender. Moving the lineup around to accomodate David Lee isn't optimal, in my opinion. I would like David Lee as our starting PF next to the right center, like I said, but that complicates things needlessly.

Also, I think David Lee will ultimately get way overpaid and won't be worth the contract he gets.

[Yoshi2kx]

Nice try trying to sneak that heaping piLe of trash of Curry in there. We can just out right sign Lee next summer; Why help out New York at all? O yea, our incentive is a "1st round pick" after you get a butt load of money to spend on 1st tier free agents. Yea.. PASS.

[slick_watts]

We could have signed Lee last Summer.. really don't think there's interest there unless we can move Green for a center.

[TheOGJabroni]

I just personally think the type of PF Presti is looking for will be much easier to find, whether it is through the draft or free agency, than a starting C. I think a trade for a defensive minded center needs to be made. Having said that, depending on how much money said center makes will determine if OKC should/can sign David Lee or any other PF outright in free agency or if there will not be enough money for a big impact starting PF and Presti will need to look in the draft, which ultimately may be the better option. According to nbadraft.net there are 14 PFs that are taken in the first round.

Derrick Favors
Ed Davis
Greg Monroe
DeMarcus Cousins
Gani Lawal

and many others, could really interest Sam Presti in the upcoming draft.

[Balkman32]

I know Lee could have been signed last season. But it would have cost OKC about 40 million for 6 years (that number is probably still what he is looking for). I agree David Lee is not a max player. But, sometime you have to look at the situation now. This team is a playoff team. This is a time for these young players to get great experience (Playoffs). Let’s be honest. Who thought OKC would be where they are today? Not Me for One.

OKC is not ready to dump $40 million into a player unless his last name is Durant. But, a rent-a-player like Lee this year, in that trade, would cost the Thunder about 10 million extra.

The thought here isn't, oh they don’t like David Lee. The Thunder have a chance to go very far in the playoffs this year. They have a guy who can score with the best of them, and a supporting cast which is very young, yet very good.

We also can not Count out what type of ability Eddy Curry has these days. Either way, a deal like this was made we would still have about 21 million in expiring contracts next season. We all know how valuable those are.

[slick_watts]

I know Lee could have been signed last season. But it would have cost OKC about 40 million for 6 years (that number is probably still what he is looking for). I agree David Lee is not a max player. But, sometime you have to look at the situation now. This team is a playoff team. This is a time for these young players to get great experience (Playoffs). Let’s be honest. Who thought OKC would be where they are today? Not Me for One.

OKC is not ready to dump $40 million into a player unless his last name is Durant. But, a rent-a-player like Lee this year, in that trade, would cost the Thunder about 10 million extra.

The thought here isn't, oh they don’t like David Lee. The Thunder have a chance to go very far in the playoffs this year. They have a guy who can score with the best of them, and a supporting cast which is very young, yet very good.

We also can not Count out what type of ability Eddy Curry has these days. Either way, a deal like this was made we would still have about 21 million in expiring contracts next season. We all know how valuable those are.

I don't see them renting a player at all. That's 100% against all of Sam Presti's actions and statements about managing the team. $10 million to win a few extra playoff games? It's silly.. I advocate trades that have some kind of future benefit. Frivolous trading isn't needed right now. If we want David Lee we can just sign him in the offseason at no extra cost. It makes zero sense to make trades just for this season's benefit, we're not going to win a title.

[Balkman32]

Now I get the future benefit and I understand the $10 million. But, I feel it is really against the nature of Presti to pay a guy who is not named Durant $40 million. Yeah, it will cost $10 million. But, lets look at this trade as a whole:

Eddy Curry makes $3 million for the rest of this year and $11 million next season
David Lee makes about $1 million for the rest of this year
2011 First Round Pick Unprotected
$3 million
Minus the rest of Thomas and 15% of Harpring's deal

So the total amount of money to do this deal is; the Knicks giving us $15 million in contracts over this and next year minus the $3 million (the most amount of money you can put in a trade), minus the contracts we are trading ($2 million). Gives you the $10 million extra were going to be paying Eddy Curry.

What OKC gets is:
2011 First Round Pick Unprotected - Worth $3 million (San Antonio is always selling picks for 3 million)
David Lee for a Playoff Run (I would say that is worth about 1 million to 2 million for every extra playoff series he helps the Thunder get to)
This move gives the Thunder the ability to move Curry next season because he is an expiring Contract next season. To bring in a guy who can help on the playoff run. (Kristic and Collison are both expiring next season as well)

[slick_watts]

You are not factoring in the cost of losing cap flexibility by taking on Eddy Curry's contract. This is going to be a big free agent year, and even though we might not get a top flight star, there will be others available (such as David Lee, for example..). Even if we don't get a free agent, we can save the cap space for next year and use it to take some contract off a luxury tax team and get prospects and/or picks. Cap space is a valuable commodity, you do not give it up for a short sighted move like the one you are proposing.

[Balkman32]

Cap space is a valuable commodity, and Eddy Curry is a bum.

Slick who else do you have in mind that you think would fit. Because, I get the feel that the Front Office (FO) dosen't want to add a contract like a Milsap signed last year in Utah.

Also who are your targets for this season? Who would you like to see the Thunder grab. Because, you have to think there will probally be some sort of little deal in the working before Feb, 18.

[slick_watts]

I'm not sure who I'd want to target. But any option, to me, is better than renting David Lee for half a season and not being able to target anyone. Just because you might not find the right deal out there for the right price doesn't mean you don't go shopping.

I think that Sam Presti has to make some kind of move before next year's trade deadline. That's the time frame he has to improve the roster and solidify the core. After that, you're looking at extension for Kevin Durant and (possibly) Jeff Green and the ability to move pieces around won't be there.

I think the team needs two things. A true number two scorer to pair next to Kevin Durant, and a big man that can control the boards and be at least somewhat competent on defense. Our team only has a few real weaknesses: poor shooting percentage (21st of 30 in eFG%), poor defensive rebounding (23rd of 30 in opponent ORB%), and turnovers (26th of 30 in TOV%). Interior defense is often cited as a weakness, but we are 3rd in the league in opponent eFG% and have the 7th ranked defense overall by Defensive Rating.

So that said, the best candidates for us to target would fill the most of those gaps as possible. That means a big man that can rebound and score efficiently when required. David Lee obviously fits this bill to a large extent, but I wonder what his effort level would be like on defense. Al Jefferson fits the same way David Lee does, and I'd wonder about his defensive commitment as well. Chris Kaman sort of fits both criteria, but he's turnover prone and not really that efficient a scorer or a great rebounder. Brendan Haywood would help the rebounding, and further solidy our defense (a plus), but does nothing to help out with our scoring problem. A player such as Andrew Bogut would be a perfect fit, but I don't think such a player will be available. Sam Dalembert would help our rebounding problems and, again, further solidy our defense, but he has the same negatives as Brendan Haywood.

What I'm getting at is that there are a lot of possibilities, probably many I haven't given thought to, and we have the flexibility to pursue many of them either by virtue of our cap space or young players that might be available in a trade. Sacrificing our cap space on a meaningless playoff run would cripple our ability to pursue any of these avenues.

[Balkman32]

The Bucks are not trading Bogut. I don't think the T-Wolfs would dare move Big Al to OKC. Lee we talked about.

Haywood deal expires this year. You can get him today but, you will have to take Caron Butler or Antwan Jamnson (both very good players) butler has the better contract bit Jamnson is a better fit. The thunder would have 2 get creative here because Etan Thomas can not be traded there. I don't think a deal like this will get done. (it is like the Lee deal but a little sweeter because Jamnson is a very good player and he would be a GREAT mentor for Jeff Green.

Kaman has this year and two more years. LAC might be willing to part with him for expiring deals. But, you are paying him almost 25 million for the rest of the contract. Plus he is a little bit older.

Sammy is a devensive guy who has about 14 mill on his deal over this year and next. A trade of Harpring and Thomas gets him in OKC. This one might make the most sense to trade for this year

[Clangus]

Another thing I would add, is that With Mullens, White and Ibaka, we potentially have the guys to fill positions of need already. It makes little sense to make trades or sign a big FA until we have explored whether they are part of a long term future. With Durant being a Max player and Possibly Westbrook being one too (or at least a high salary guy) we don't really need to start filling the rest of the spots with allstars and big F/A. We need player good role players. I think Ibaka and Maybe Mullens can be that 4 and 5 combo going forward?

[slick_watts]

Like I said, some of those players may be available next year. Brendan Haywood or David Lee we could just sign outright. Sam Dalembert has been available forever. Chris Kaman might be had for the right price if Blake Griffin works out. My concern isn't improving the team for this season, it's improvement for the next several years. I think any play Sam Presti makes will be concerned with the season beginning 2010-2011 at the earliest.

Another thing I would add, is that With Mullens, White and Ibaka, we potentially have the guys to fill positions of need already. It makes little sense to make trades or sign a big FA until we have explored whether they are part of a long term future. With Durant being a Max player and Possibly Westbrook being one too (or at least a high salary guy) we don't really need to start filling the rest of the spots with allstars and big F/A. We need player good role players. I think Ibaka and Maybe Mullens can be that 4 and 5 combo going forward?

Byron Mullens, DJ White, and Serge Ibaka aren't likely to be NBA starting material for a contending team. Serge has worked himself into the rotation nicely, and definitely has the potential to be starting material, but he's not there. He might help with our problem on the defensive boards, but he's no help on the offensive end where he commits too many turnovers, doesn't pass the ball, etc. Byron Mullens and DJ White have barely played any meaningful NBA minutes, so I wouldn't saddle them with expectations yet.

None of these players should be reason not to go after a front court upgrade in free agency or trade. It would be an enormous risk for Sam Presti to entrust the future of this team in unproven, low draft pick players. If they don't work out, and we're already extending some of our rookie scale guys, what happens? We've lost the flexibility to acquire those front court upgrades.

Conversely, if we make a smart free agency signing or trade for a young(ish) front court upgrade, he could develop with the team and we know we're getting a sure thing. We already have a ton of question marks on this roster aside from Kevin Durant, wouldn't it be horrible if Russ, James Harden, Maynor, etc. all work out and we can't go anywhere because we don't have anyone to rebound or score efficiently?

Like I said, Sam Presti has a little time before he has to make a move. Almost a full year from now. That's the window he has to acquire a player. Contract extensions to Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook shouldn't feature in his decision making process too heavily; there's plenty of money for another ~$10 million player in the books along with those two guys.