Mark McGwire used steroids!?!?

[Modern_epic]

So it turns out the "steroids weren't forbidden" argument is bull. Pleasantly, this is apparently because of what I was talking about in my previous post. The MLB agreed that US laws supersede MLB rules.

[Zuul]

So he didn't want to talk about the past to congress when he could have made a real statement, but now that it is an appropriate time from a PR perspective and suspiciously ahead of his hall of fame election he has had a epiphany to come "clean". Come on don't insult my intelligence.

Big Mac's special sauce was steriods. Cheater's do prosper. Those are the things we should take from this.

[distracted]

So he didn't want to talk about the past to congress when he could have made a real statement, but now that it is an appropriate time from a PR perspective and suspiciously ahead of his hall of fame election he has had a epiphany to come "clean". Come on don't insult my intelligence.

Big Mac's special sauce was steriods. Cheater's do prosper. Those are the things we should take from this.

Apparently he was facing jail time if he admitted to using them. His lawyer tried to get immunity, they wouldn't give it. This could be a further story, but it's certainly one that's believable AND likely.

Of course there is suspicion he's coming clean now due to Cooperstown, but he's also going to be coaching next season and I'm sure as part of that the team forced him to make some kind of statement. There's now way they'd hire him if they thought he was going to be a walking circus. It'll still be bad for a bit, but not like it would have been.

[jim todd]

Of course there is suspicion he's coming clean now due to Cooperstown, but he's also going to be coaching next season and I'm sure as part of that the team forced him to make some kind of statement. There's now way they'd hire him if they thought he was going to be a walking circus. It'll still be bad for a bit, but not like it would have been.

wait...is it possible that steroids could also improve his coaching ability???

[Hoopstarr]

Another sensible take on the issue from Joe Posnanski: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... index.html

[satyr9]

McGwire gets as much righteous indignation about PEDs and the hall because power is his only claim at all. A career .263 BA, 1600 hits to 1600 k's. All he's got are almost 600 HR's and the 1300 walks that come with the HR's. He definitely never had defense or speed or anything else to add onto it and his hitting is pure power.

So many of the guys who've been involved in these scandals have a much harder time being totally discounted because of PED's. They hit for average too, or had a great glove, and pitchers, even with high velocity, have location and secondary pitches. McGwire gets to be the scapegoat for a ton of people's anger because all he did was mash. That and keeping his mouth shut at the time when if he'd come clean he probably gets forgiven.

Would I vote him into the HOF if I had a vote? Probably not 'cause I really buy the B.Johnson and others analogy, but I also agree with the articles posted that I'm not mad at the guy and people who are just have some pent up stuff that's being directed his way. I think coming out now has some guts. It's not like he had to and the argument he's going to get asked everyday as the Cards batting coach I don't buy either. How many press conferences does a batting coach have to do if he doesn't want to? I'm guessing the answer is none. If you still ascribe this purely to the hall, to me there's two ways to look at it even then. First, wanting to be in the HOF isn't a bad thing. That's about respecting the game and wanting to be a part of it still. Coming out and talking down your biggest claim (saying Maris still deserves the record does that doesn't it?) to a spot is a pretty humble way of trying to go about that. If you want to be purely negative you can claim that the HOF is still only about money from signings and such, but in a case like this I'd ask whether Pete Rose has a hard time doing signings because he's not in the HOF. IMO he probably retains more notoriety and generates more revenue being the badboy PEDs posterchild who isn't in the hall, over a contrite apologetic guy who does eventually get in, so I'm going to say McGwire is doing the best he can to set his own record straight 'cause I can't make a big argument for why you can chalk up his admissions to some sort of Machiavellian performance.

That he doesn't pull off his interviews with perfect polish doesn't make me angry either. Maybe he could be more sincere, and I didn't watch 'cause despite the length of this post to the contrary, I honestly don't really care, but appearing to be properly apologetic on television requires acting skills even if you truly are sorry and I don't begrudge him a lack of acting talent. Not to mention, I wouldn't be too upset if he was honestly a little sore about the whole thing as well as feeling sorry. He played in the league at a time when it certainly appears that an enormous number of guys availed themselves of similar drugs and he is as responsible for baseball's resurgence in popularity as any single individual guy in the league and because he behaved like so many others and achieved beyond them. Because of that he just might feel a little annoyed by the public's reaction to him, even if he's remorseful about his choices at the same time. That's not necessarily an admirable reaction, but to me it's a pretty understandable one.

Especially when the main argument from the detractors amounts to worrying about their long-term health. Most professional athletes, although Baseball's probably the lowest on this scale, put their long-term health in pretty serious jeopardy by being professional athletes. Maybe not from a life threatening perspective, but quality of life as they age certainly. I've always thought that NFL reporters lay off PEDs in the NFL 'cause they see what a 45 year-old offensive lineman goes through just to walk around after a 10 year career and the hypocrisy of the indignation about fan reaction to PEDs stares them in the face just a little too much. Which isn't to say I'm for using PEDs. I hate it for the simple fact you are creating an unfair environment for guys who don't want to use them and try their best to protect their health or to set an example for every kid who might consider taking them 'cause they want to be a professional athlete. But the main lament directed at a single individual about their health from a fan or the writers rings incredibly false to me because we desire them to ignore their health for the good of the team in almost every other way they can.

So for a guy who couldn't care less about McGwire's 'roids confession, I certainly had a little too much to say. If you're still reading all I can say is sorry. xD

[J-Roc]

Another sensible take on the issue from Joe Posnanski: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... index.html

I guess by "sensible", you mean he agrees with you. He says we should forgive McGwire. Big Mac is like a crook who robbed a bank, and got caught. Caught long ago, but only now has he admitted to it. Would we just forgive the bank robber, or would we demand he return the money?

Mark McGwire made a ton of money by cheating. If he wants forgiveness, he should return the money. Donate it all to Haiti or something. That's....sensible.

[Hoopstarr]

Another sensible take on the issue from Joe Posnanski: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... index.html

I guess by "sensible", you mean he agrees with you. He says we should forgive McGwire. Big Mac is like a crook who robbed a bank, and got caught. Caught long ago, but only now has he admitted to it. Would we just forgive the bank robber, or would we demand he return the money?

Mark McGwire made a ton of money by cheating. If he wants forgiveness, he should return the money. Donate it all to Haiti or something. That's....sensible.

If you read the article, he has a different, and much more sensible, definition for "forgive" than most. Like me, it's not even like he's a McGwire fan. It's just that this childish game of "he didn't apologize the way we wanted" has no end. It's a lot like the Obama Birthers. They keep saying "just show us the birth certificate and we're all good". Except that nothing will ever be enough for people who are determined to make a predetermined "truth" into a truth.

[Modern_epic]

Another sensible take on the issue from Joe Posnanski: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... index.html

I guess by "sensible", you mean he agrees with you. He says we should forgive McGwire. Big Mac is like a crook who robbed a bank, and got caught. Caught long ago, but only now has he admitted to it. Would we just forgive the bank robber, or would we demand he return the money?

Mark McGwire made a ton of money by cheating. If he wants forgiveness, he should return the money. Donate it all to Haiti or something. That's....sensible.

If you read the article, he has a different, and much more sensible, definition for "forgive" than most. Like me, it's not even like he's a McGwire fan. It's just that this childish game of "he didn't apologize the way we wanted" has no end. It's a lot like the Obama Birthers. They keep saying "just show us the birth certificate and we're all good". Except that nothing will ever be enough for people who are determined to make a predetermined "truth" into a truth.

Except in the Obama case, none of the nurses at the hospital have said he is still lying. Also, Obama didn't lie about anything, and thus has no credibility problem. And he didn't confess that the birthers were right to become president. And the people who are angry with Obama aren't opposed to him because they think he's not American, just bringing it up because of some unrelated things they don't like.

In fact, the McGwire situation is absolutely nothing like that.

[Hoopstarr]

I'm talking about people who are dead set on having their minds made up and won't change it regardless of what happens.

[Modern_epic]

And you picked an analogy that makes the people who disagree with you seem **** insane. Please.

[Hoopstarr]

I believe Richard Griffin would qualify as "**** insane"

[Modern_epic]

I'm pretty sure Griff is just senile and grumpy about it.

[J-Roc]

I'm talking about people who are dead set on having their minds made up and won't change it regardless of what happens.

Is there really an issue out there whether people are concerned with "how" McGwire apologized? Seems to me people are just concerned with why he's apologizing now (to get into the HoF), and then of course there's the concern over whether or not he should ever get into the HoF. Posnanski seems to have made up an issue, so he could give his sensible take on it.