Favre's Playoff INTs In OT /Will They Impact His Legacy?

[rilamann]

I wanna get some opinions on this.

When you consider Favre's playoff INT in overtime vs the Eagles in the Divisional playoff in 2003 along with Favre's latest INT in overtime vs the Giants in the NFC championship game what kind of impact do you think those two INTs will have on Favre's overall legacy.

Should it have an impact on his legacy?? Will it have an impact?? Or no?

I actually think when you take both INTs into account I think it tarnishes his overall leagcy a bit and drops him a spot or two when you are talking about the greatest QB's of all time.

Reason being is the magnitude of each INT,your talking about two INT's in the playoffs in sudden death overtime and of course the Packers ended up losing both games.

You could make a legit argument that those two INT's cost the Packers two world championships.

Obviously Favre still goes down as one of the all time greats without a doubt and im one of the biggest Favre fans around im just wondering if those two INT that came in OT will have a negative impact on his legacy and if you bring up Brett Favre lets say 20 years after he retires one of the first things mentioned ''those 2 playoff INTs in OT''.

The funny thing is if that happens I think the 2003 INT vs the Eagles would have probably been totally forgotten if Favre dont throw the pick vs the Giants.

The INT vs the Giants kinda brings the one vs the Eagles back to life.

Its one those things if it happens once you chalk it up as ''one of those things that happens'' but when it happens twice (both in the playoffs and both in OT) it might become part of Favre's legacy.

If it does become part of Favre's legacy I have no problem with it as a Favre fan,those INT's where huge and costed the Packers bigtime.You can't argue that.

[th87]

Of course they will. And they should.

They were violently boneheaded plays which a 17 year veteran should've grown out of. And like you said, they cost us Super Bowls.

The errors have largely been unforced too. It'd be one thing if Dawkins/Webster/Polley made amazing plays, or the defense really shut things down, but this was never really the case. It was Favre throwing lollipops at the most inopportune moments, defying explanation.

It'd be like Jordan inexplicably throwing the ball out of bounds right before he was about to shake (and push) Bryon Russell.

I don't get why it happens. Coaching? Out of body experiences? It makes no sense.

Things like this make me rethink my Favre>Elway discussion.

[eagle13]

Not only those INTS but his overall poor play in post season.

I love Brett and He will always be a lock for top ten b/c of stats & 1 SB - but he is NO lock for top 5 and for sure NOT among top 3 unless he has another great year and wins the SB next season.

[ReasonablySober]

Agreed with both of the above.

Did you read MD's thread about that list of Greatest QBs of All Time? It's Favre's failures in the post season that drop him down the list so far.

There's a reason Brady and Montana are on the short list for greatest of all time. Right or wrong, it's because they came through in the post season. Conversely, Favre's cost his team dearly on numerous occasions and it's going to really drop him.

Had he brought the Packers back against NY last week, that would have gone a long way towards helping his legacy. Instead, the lasting memory from that game will be Favre throwing a gimme INT to essentially end the game for GB.

[El Duderino]

Brett always brushes off these killer mistakes to the media like aww shucks, this stuff happens. You know though that deep down inside those two picks will haunt him forever.

[rilamann]

Of course they will. And they should.

They were violently boneheaded plays which a 17 year veteran should've grown out of. And like you said, they cost us Super Bowls.

The errors have largely been unforced too. It'd be one thing if Dawkins/Webster/Polley made amazing plays, or the defense really shut things down, but this was never really the case. It was Favre throwing lollipops at the most inopportune moments, defying explanation.

It'd be like Jordan inexplicably throwing the ball out of bounds right before he was about to shake (and push) Bryon Russell.

I don't get why it happens. Coaching? Out of body experiences? It makes no sense.

Things like this make me rethink my Favre>Elway discussion.

I was thinking the same thing about Favre>Elway.

Favre was a guy I always put ahead of Elway but when you combine these 2 playoff INTs in overtime I think Elway is the guy that has to move ahead of Favre on everyone's all time QB list.

Favre forever killed the Elway vs Favre argument with that throw last sunday in my opinion.

The playoff game vs the Rams in 2001 when Favre had 4 or 5 INTs doesnt realy bother me because that year in my opinion it was Rams>>>Packers anyway.

I remember right before I sat down and watched that game I thought the Packers would have to play a perfect game while the Rams made some big mistakes for the Packers to even have a chance in that one.That was one of those games where the Packers could have played their best game of the year and still lost.

At that point in time the Rams where pretty much unstoppable & unbeatable in that dome.

The Giants game last week was at home and a game they should have won and the Eagles game is a game that had won so in that regard much different than the Rams game,at least to me.

I think Favre can kind of ''lessen'' the impact those INTs have on his legacy if lets say the Packers come back and win Super Bowl 43 next year.

Obviously if the Packers dont get back to the NFC title game agian in Favre's carrer then it becomes a huge factor in his legacy.

Hypothetically lets say the Packers go back to back and win Super Bowls 43 & 44.If that where to happen that Giants game for not only Favre but for the Green Bay Packers becomes somehwhat forgotten and is probably looked at as a stepping stone game for two world championships.

People will say ''they where a young team and they needed to lose that game so they could grow up as a team and go on to win 2 world championships''.

If the Packers with this current group oflayers dont sniff a super bowl and dont make it to another NFC title game we'll be seeing a 2 hour documentry 15 years from now on the NFL network about that game and how the Packers and a 38 year old Brett Favre choked away a golden oppritunity.

For example you think John Elway's ''drive'' ('86 AFC title game) would go down in such lore and have 20 ESPN classic specials on it had the Browns come back and won the next 2 super bowls in '87 & '88?

If the Browns do that Elway's drive goes down as just a ''good game''.

Where that Giants game stands in Packers history and what kind of final impact it has on Favre's legacy wont be completly determined for another couple years based on what the Packers do over the next couple years obviously.

[paulpressey25]

Things like this make me rethink my Favre>Elway discussion.

I think we all were wrong and right in our assessments of Favre before the season began.

Clearly I was wrong in that the guy did have something left in the tank. Given better weapons and a good defense, he produced big-time this year.

But at the same time, in the two biggest games of the year, he wilted terribly under the pressure. Against Dallas and then the Giants he had every opportunity to make something happen.....instead we got the boneheaded INT's that essentially cost us the games.

I guess if you go back and look at all his bad games the answer is clear. If you can really get pressure on Favre, he really has a hard time dealing with it. By pressure I mean playoff type intensity pressure from a good team. Even in the SuperBowl winning year of 1996, he played terrible against Dallas and Kansas City, two teams with bruising, physical defenses back then.

The performance pushes him closer to the Fran Tarkenton class than the Montana/Brady class. It's too bad because a Giants comeback drive combined with a Super Bowl win over Brady might have put him back in the discussion of the greatest ever.

[NeedsMoreCheese]

Ill stand by my post i made back at the end of september on the general board

-= original quote snipped =-



The same elway that holds the super bowl record for most interceptions (8), yea he played in a bunch of them but then again so did others like Terry Bradshaw. Most fumbles 3, 2 in 1 game (also a record). 14 career postseason fumbles (1st all time), The guy is extremely overrated and if it werent for The Walrus not knowing how to coach (gee a guy is running all over a D in the SB in the first half, how about we stop going to him in the second half) he wouldnt have that first SB and probably wouldnt have had the momentum to carry him to the second. Damn Walrus, look what youve done.

As you can see Elway wasnt very good at avoiding turnovers in the playoffs either. This is the reason I hate Holmgren, he significantly helped Elways legacy. I'm not a fan of the packers (well obviously, I dont even know why i say that because you all know), but I was pissed about them losing that SB.

[th87]

Ill stand by my post i made back at the end of september on the general board
-= original quote snipped =-




As you can see Elway wasnt very good at avoiding turnovers in the playoffs either. This is the reason I hate Holmgren, he significantly helped Elways legacy. I'm not a fan of the packers (well obviously, I dont even know why i say that because you all know), but I was pissed about them losing that SB.

I know Elway got smothered in the Super Bowl, and was a turnover machine there. But how was he in the AFC playoffs? I feel like he did fine in the games that he "should" win, only to get destroyed in the Super Bowl against far superior opponents. Given most of his Super Bowl participations were blowouts anyway, I'm willing to excuse some of his blunders as a by-product of his team being badly overmatched.

Favre gets a slight pass from me against St. Louis too. That was a game that we were badly overmatched, and he felt like he needed to force to even have a shot (erroneously or not).

But he does not get a pass for making completely unnecessary throws when the team's on the verge of winning. Those I cannot forgive, and they force me to downgrade Favre on my list.

I still don't think Elway's better, but it makes me think now, when it didn't before.

[rilamann]

Thought it would be fun to revisit this topic I made from two years ago,2 years ago almost to the day.



Might have to ''bump'' that legacy down another notch or two.

[ReasonablySober]

AMAZING bump. Well done, sir.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I read the whole thread and only a few spots caught my eye. Thought it was a current thread

[chuckleslove]

I read the whole thread and only a few spots caught my eye. Thought it was a current thread

Yeah I was trying to figure out how a new thread appeared and got 10 replies so quickly

[Mags FTW]

The guys on 540 just made an amazing point. If not for his 2 bonehead INTs in the recent NFC title games, and his 4th quarter meltdown in DAL in 1995, he could've played in 5 Super Bowls. If you're like me and thought the 4th and 26 team would've beat CAR in the title game, it's 6. He had the potential to cement himself as the greatest QB ever but repeatedly choked it away.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

I read the whole thread and only a few spots caught my eye. Thought it was a current thread

Yeah I was trying to figure out how a new thread appeared and got 10 replies so quickly

Same here, haha.

The guys on 540 just made an amazing point. If not for his 2 bonehead INTs in the recent NFC title games, and his 4th quarter meltdown in DAL in 1995, he could've played in 5 Super Bowls. If you're like me and thought the 4th and 26 team would've beat CAR in the title game, it's 6. He had the potential to cement himself as the greatest QB ever but repeatedly choked it away.

Really interesting point.

[WEFFPIM]

For a second I thought KIAM had made a return and was very excited.

[Fight the Tank]

The guys on 540 just made an amazing point. If not for his 2 bonehead INTs in the recent NFC title games, and his 4th quarter meltdown in DAL in 1995, he could've played in 5 Super Bowls. If you're like me and thought the 4th and 26 team would've beat CAR in the title game, it's 6. He had the potential to cement himself as the greatest QB ever but repeatedly choked it away.

Ragging on a guy for not cementing himself as the greatest QB of all time. I find that weird to say the least.

[rilamann]

If Favre comes back for the 2010 season I'll be sure to bookmark this thread so I don't have to dig so deep for it next year.

[El Duderino]

I actually thought the impact of his INT tonight was way overstated and nowhere near as instrumental in a playoff game being lost as other picks in his past.

The pick today wasn't really much more damaging than if he had thrown an incomplete pass. If i remember correctly, it was 3rd and 13 after the penalty at the 38-39 yard line. If Brett had say thrown the pass away out of bounds instead of for the pick, it's 4th and 13 at the 38-39 yard line with about 13-14 seconds left.

What does Chili do then? Try a 56-57 yard FG? That's a longshot FG at best. If Longwell misses, the Saints get the ball at the 46-47 yard line and maybe enough time for one play to get into FG range themselves. Chili may have punted if Brett had just thrown the ball away.

The absolute killer for the Queens was the 12 man in the huddle penalty, that took them out of realistic FG range.

[an_also]

High-Level thread bumping