My Take on the Current State of the Celts

[celticsnut]

Take this for what it is worth, coming from a fan who has watched every game live on TV or live in person for the last 4 years (since discovering the beauty of League Pass). I am not giving up, but there is no chance as it stands today, a healthy Celtics team with its current roster can win a title. The defense and rebounding is atrocious. We win that game last night if we don't blow a defensive assignment late and let Reddick take a three. I posted this on the game thread, but I have noticed many times this season that one play during the course of the game changes our play immensely. When KG missed that back door lob, they came down and hit a three and it was virtually a 5 point swing, we played awful from then on. I think it is obvious that KG is nowhere near his old self. For the first time in a long time, Pierce just simply dissapeared. Ray played solid on the O-end. I almost logged as many mins as Perk. The fact that we were even in that game is something to be said. Only problem is this: there is ZERO chance we win tonight in ATL coming off a lose and on a back to back. I also think we lose to the Lakers and that pains me to say. We could easily lose 7 of the next 10 after I looked at the schedule. This is a little tough to swallow but I am almost worried about the division. Raptors are finally playing great ball and only 6 games back. I could absolutely swallow my words tonight if we win, but the big issue I see is that a win is nice, but it just shows how inconsistent we are. This is a 50 win team. We really need to start making some moves for the future. We are just old and unathletic. I damn near threw my cell phone through the TV last night. It's almost like you know we are going to blow leads this season. I do think this team is capable of putting things together to make a nice run, but no chance at a title. Even if we make moves, I don't think we can win one. We just don't have the pieces right now to make a significant deal. I am by no means giving up, just being realistic. Those of you who can't see this are just nieve to the fact that it is inevitable. We need pieces around Rondo and Perk for the next 10 years.

[hairybyrd]

So in watching all those games over the past 4 years you didn't notice that a healthy Celtics team won the title in 2008 and could have repeated last year had it not been for KG's injury? I'm convinced the only thing holding this team back is, in fact, injuries. Either way, theres 7 title contenders this year but that's probably stretching it a bit. There's BOS, CLE, ORL, LAL and then there's SAS, ATL and DAL. Of that group the Celts are definitely in the upper half though no team really stands above the rest. Point being: Right now the Celts probably have about a 25% chance at the title. I'll roll with those odds.

[BillessuR6]

So in watching all those games over the past 4 years you didn't notice that a healthy Celtics team won the title in 2008 and could have repeated last year had it not been for KG's injury? I'm convinced the only thing holding this team back is, in fact, injuries. Either way, theres 7 title contenders this year but that's probably stretching it a bit. There's BOS, CLE, ORL, LAL and then there's SAS, ATL and DAL. Of that group the Celts are definitely in the upper half though no team really stands above the rest. Point being: Right now the Celts probably have about a 25% chance at the title. I'll roll with those odds.

I disagree. KG and Ray Allen are not even close to the players they were 2 years ago. They went from stars to role players and can only play at a star level occasionally...if we want to win another ring we need to make a big upgrade, IMO...

[sully00]

If that is a healthy KG them I am Beyonce.

We aren't winning anything with KG giving us Glen Davis production especially with Perk in foul trouble.

Rashard Lewis has always been a bad match up for KG especially that far outside of the paint but the impact just is lacking.

We were in the game because of 3 point shooting and Rondo being aggressive offensively that just isn't a faucet that stays on long especially in the postseason.

There is plenty of blame to go around when you collapse like we did last night but damn we need to find some scoring, somebody besides Ray and Paul the other team has to friggin guard.

60 points in 3 quarters of NBA basketball my eyes, my eyes ... I think I just say Walter McCarty.

[celticsnut]

Hairybyrd - it is official, there are some crazy people on here. Do you realize that makes us 4:1 odds to win essentially? The Lakers don't even have those odds in Vegas right now. I understand your point about injuries, but these guys are two years and not producing nearly as much as they were even last season let alone two years ago.

[hairybyrd]

So in watching all those games over the past 4 years you didn't notice that a healthy Celtics team won the title in 2008 and could have repeated last year had it not been for KG's injury? I'm convinced the only thing holding this team back is, in fact, injuries. Either way, theres 7 title contenders this year but that's probably stretching it a bit. There's BOS, CLE, ORL, LAL and then there's SAS, ATL and DAL. Of that group the Celts are definitely in the upper half though no team really stands above the rest. Point being: Right now the Celts probably have about a 25% chance at the title. I'll roll with those odds.

I disagree. KG and Ray Allen are not even close to the players they were 2 years ago. They went from stars to role players and can only play at a star level occasionally...if we want to win another ring we need to make a big upgrade, IMO...

Baby got a late start and has been a disappointment, Quis has been out 2 months, KG is hobbling, Pierce had a random infection, Rondo and Sheed have missed some games...the consistency hasn't been there because of injury. I'm fine with trading Ray Allen (who I'm assuming is the logical choice) for an upgrade but it appears less and less likely that will happen so, then, what do we do? Blow it up and trade everyone? The C's have more playoff experience as a core group than any other contender in the league and that should play to their advantage assuming everyone's healthy come playoff time.

[hairybyrd]

Hairybyrd - it is official, there are some crazy people on here. Do you realize that makes us 4:1 odds to win essentially? The Lakers don't even have those odds in Vegas right now. I understand your point about injuries, but these guys are two years and not producing nearly as much as they were even last season let alone two years ago.

My point was this: Boston, LAL, CLE, and ORL are the four best teams in the league and comparable by record. Therefore, it's about 4:1...I'm not getting complex with Vegas equations just speaking generally.

[hairybyrd]

Hairybyrd - it is official, there are some crazy people on here. Do you realize that makes us 4:1 odds to win essentially? The Lakers don't even have those odds in Vegas right now. I understand your point about injuries, but these guys are two years and not producing nearly as much as they were even last season let alone two years ago.

My point was this: Boston, LAL, CLE, and ORL are the four best teams in the league and comparable by record. Therefore, it's about 4:1...I'm not getting complex with Vegas equations just speaking generally.

[Red2]

it's always an interesting discussion with the glass half full and the glass half empty points of view. Count me in the glass half empty. I pray that I'm wrong and would like nothing more than to be proven wrong but as Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." I.e. what you see on the floor and what we've all been seeing this season and the second half of last season is a team that has injuries to key players, lacks athleticim save for one or two players, doesn't have a consistent bench and plays down to the level of its competition ( Doc calls that a lack of focus). We can barely beat a depleted Portland team at home and we haven't blown anyone out since the Orlando Christmas game. (BTW that was also the last quality team that we beat)Teams no longer fear us and know they can come back on us. We have 2 starters who are shooting less thatn 60% on free throws and we get out rebounded on a nightly basis. Two of our stars turn the ball over 3-4 times a game and Pierce is no longer a go to guy. Sure, he's injured but why does everyone think that come April we're all of a sudden going to be healthy and playing good basketball? Where is the evidence for that? Everything we've seen from this team so far suggests that we'll win about 50 games and unless we get a really favorable matchup we will be out in the first or second round of hte playoffs. It's nice to hope we'll suddenly discover the fountain of youth and good basketball but I haven't seen anything so far to support that belief. House, Davis, Ray are all having bad years. KG i,Pierce and Daniels are hurt and Rondo is battling a bad hamstring. All of the signs are there for another dismal finish.

[Kefa461]

Take this for what it is worth, coming from a fan who has watched every game live on TV or live in person for the last 4 years (since discovering the beauty of League Pass). I am not giving up, but there is no chance as it stands today, a healthy Celtics team with its current roster can win a title.


Well with that statement.......I take it for what it's worth.

I will say this.....imho....healthy.....current roster......wins it all.

[Havlicek17]

Wow, it's getting a lot less crowded on this bandwagon...

Let's get healthy and past the allstar break before we call it a rebuild O.K.?

As far as I can see, our biggest problem right now is rebounding. Second chance points are killing us. I think this will improve as our bigs recover from their injuries and get their timing back.

[Banks2Pierce]

What's funny is this: (and I am in no way wishing this on the guy, I am just using an example) say Kobe Bryant goes down with a season ender....Do people honestly think that "this team as currently constructed has no chance at a title"? People ignore the possibility of KG getting to 85% of 2007 KG and assume he will only get worse.

That is why I always laugh when people say that because it is just flat out dumb.

[JSABleedsGreen]

A Heathly Celtics can win the title.....they have the talent but health is the biggest concern.

HOWEVER.....The person I fear the most on this team is Doc Rivers. He is a terrible minutes guy. He's literally running his core players to the ground. Last night Orlando game....why in the world is Pierce playing 40 and Allen 42 minutes? WHY? you were up 16 at one point. I understand playing your starters a lot of minutes when the team has many injuries but right now....on Daniels is not on the active roster.....have faith and play your bench. Tony Allen was playing great yet he only logged 12 minutes.....how about giving him 20 minutes and taking at least 4 minutes from Allen and Pierce.

The celtics are losing 4 quarters but the stars are too tired in the 4th.

I like Doc and he's a good players coach. He's just terrible with time management. They need to hire someone to tell Doc "he listen up, 4 minutes left in the 3 Quarter....pierce has played 30 already....we need him in the 4th"

Doc is killing the players, have a faith in the bench....

[Hemingway]

If we are healthy I think we have as good a shot as anyone to win the title. To say Ray and KG are role players is just foolishness. Maybe KG if he is really hurt and going to play at this level for ever. But Ray? He is still a star player. His bball iq is off the charts.

[GreenDreamer]

So in watching all those games over the past 4 years you didn't notice that a healthy Celtics team won the title in 2008 and could have repeated last year had it not been for KG's injury? I'm convinced the only thing holding this team back is, in fact, injuries. Either way, theres 7 title contenders this year but that's probably stretching it a bit. There's BOS, CLE, ORL, LAL and then there's SAS, ATL and DAL. Of that group the Celts are definitely in the upper half though no team really stands above the rest. Point being: Right now the Celts probably have about a 25% chance at the title. I'll roll with those odds.

I disagree. KG and Ray Allen are not even close to the players they were 2 years ago. They went from stars to role players and can only play at a star level occasionally...if we want to win another ring we need to make a big upgrade, IMO...

Agreed, Birdman. It is delusional to think that these guys are the same, and will get back to their old level of play "once the get better." They aren't getting better. They are going in the opposite direction.

Personally I think that the team should be building directly around Rondo. Get guys who can play with him, and try and stay competitive in the process. Ray needs to go as far as I'm concerned. KG is untradeable at this time. Paul I want to keep, but only at the right price. He is better than the other two, but even he is showing some signs of slipping. Two years from now he might be a role player for all we know.

[hairybyrd]

^I haven't posted this much in 1 thread ever but I can't believe some of what I'm reading. It took us 20+ excruciating years to get where we are right now. 1 bad move and we're "fubar".

"We should build around Rondo? Find players that complement him?"

Rondo doesn't even have a consistent foul shot letalone jump shot. He's not ready to carry the offensive load, maybe next year. Ray Allen complements Rondo better than anyone could because Rondo can't shoot. 2 all-stars forwards and a top-5 center rounds out the starting 5. What team is going to better complement Rondo's skill set? He's got bangers, outlet passers, shooters, slashers, team defenders.

"KG and Ray are role players? Maybe we should re-sign Paul?"

KG's an all-star however you look at it and Ray, at the very least, is a top-10 shooting guard. Maybe we'll trade KG and/or Ray down the line but not Paul. He will retire a Celtic and play in Boston for as long as he wants.

[Captain_Caveman]

Told you guys we should have traded Ray in the offseason.

$20m should buy you AT LEAST two quality starting-caliber players.

We are not getting value out of that money at all.

[GreenMachine]

So in watching all those games over the past 4 years you didn't notice that a healthy Celtics team won the title in 2008 and could have repeated last year had it not been for KG's injury? I'm convinced the only thing holding this team back is, in fact, injuries. Either way, theres 7 title contenders this year but that's probably stretching it a bit. There's BOS, CLE, ORL, LAL and then there's SAS, ATL and DAL. Of that group the Celts are definitely in the upper half though no team really stands above the rest. Point being: Right now the Celts probably have about a 25% chance at the title. I'll roll with those odds.

25% IF healthy?

And what % chance do we have of BEING healthy???

The problem with everyone around here (sorry Hairy, not singling you out) that says - 'there is no problem with this team... we just need to get healthy' or 'KG is fine, he just needs to get healthy' - is that there is a diminishing probability of that happening.

Fact is - the chance of our top 8 being healthy for the playoffs is rather slim. And the chances of KG Ever being the same player, are even slimmer.

[Captain_Caveman]

Agreed, Green. Not sure why this team is expected to get healthier as this long season moves along.

[Captain_Caveman]

By Sunday, Celts will likely have lost 11 of their last 17 games, with the 6 wins being rather unimpressive (Nets, Raps twice, OT games vs Heat and a seriously depleted Blazers team at home, edging out Clips at home).

Time to make a trade, Danny.