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mohammed10's Official "Ted's Wizards" Thread

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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#101 » by fishercob » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:40 pm

lupin wrote:Unless some one wants to move the Wizards (to Seattle?), I can't really see too many buyers. They'd be in the exact same situation as the Caps are now.

People have to look at the Caps, WSELP, etc as SEPARATE business entities. The Caps might fill the Verizon Center, but they don't get a lot of the revenues that go exclusively to WSELP. When looking at them as separate entities, remember too that they have separate accounting books. So, even though Ted Leonsis, The Man, might be raking in some money because The Phone Booth sells out for the Russian Revolution and the luxury suites are booked to capacity, the lowly Caps Owner, T. Leonsis, doesn't get enough back from the general admission to pay the rent and the salaries. Ted personally should be making some money off the whole situation, but they get to declare a loss over in Cap Land (and write it off on their taxes?).



With all due respect, how on earth do you possibly know what Ted is or isn't making on the Caps?
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#102 » by BanndNDC » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:07 pm

a large part of the caps financial issues is rent at verizon center. reunify ownership of the wiz, caps and verizon and itll all be good. add in ticketmaster and they make good money. not concerned about the financials because that ticketmaster franchise is the ultimate in cash cows (legally sanctioned monopoly, low costs, high profit - up to $15 a ticket).


anyway, another ownership article. this time AP and somebody talked to a Pollin.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... AHeadlines

this is gonna get ugly. the pollins disagree on what the contract means and have taken active steps to solicit other buyers. it also says they are hundreds of million apart (which seems quite odd to me that it can be that much). not only does ted have a potential breach of contract claim against the pollins and he also has a very strong case (imo) against Biche and WSE as a shareholder due to their taking of sides (the memo). the plot is really thick. wish one of these reporters would just publish the darn memo already.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#103 » by montestewart » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:33 pm

BanndNDC wrote:a large part of the caps financial issues is rent at verizon center. reunify ownership of the wiz, caps and verizon and itll all be good. add in ticketmaster and they make good money. not concerned about the financials because that ticketmaster franchise is the ultimate in cash cows (legally sanctioned monopoly, low costs, high profit - up to $15 a ticket).


anyway, another ownership article. this time AP and somebody talked to a Pollin.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... AHeadlines

this is gonna get ugly. the pollins disagree on what the contract means and have taken active steps to solicit other buyers. it also says they are hundreds of million apart (which seems quite odd to me that it can be that much). not only does ted have a potential breach of contract claim against the pollins and he also has a very strong case (imo) against Biche and WSE as a shareholder due to their taking of sides (the memo). the plot is really thick. wish one of these reporters would just publish the darn memo already.


As usual, the mediated reporting makes it hard to know what is really going on, but the word I see repeatedly used is "marketing" the team to other buyers, even as Leonsis is contractually entitled to negotiation, appraisal, arbitration, and still, if all else fails, a chance to match any offer. Depending on the language of the contract, he probably has all those rights and can enforce them, but I have yet to hear anyone explain why the family and/or the estate cannot "market" the team, in order to give notice to potential buyers that, at some point, it may be on the open market.

NBA teams change hands infrequently, and the Arenas situation, the economy, and a pending labor dispute all make difficult the assessment of the team's value. Knowing that there are one or more bidders willing to give offers would figure into an assessment of its value; the true value of something is how much a buyer will pay. This could result in higher price for Leonsis or even to another person/group buying the team. Or there may be no serious bidders, and appraisers might take that into account and lower the appraised price (it's not a Wizards player, so there's no need to overpay if no one else is interested).
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#104 » by BanndNDC » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:08 pm

montestewart wrote:As usual, the mediated reporting makes it hard to know what is really going on,

indeed. i wish theyd give us more facts but they never do.

Depending on the language of the contract, he probably has all those rights and can enforce them, but I have yet to hear anyone explain why the family and/or the estate cannot "market" the team, in order to give notice to potential buyers that, at some point, it may be on the open market.


i guess it would depend on the contract but i can see a situation where the appraisal process was purposefully designed not to find the highest possible price but merely produce a number for "fair" compensation. in that situation the sale took place 10 years ago but abe had a sort of life tenancy and the only thing that needed to be determined post-death was a current fmv.

what i really dont get is WSE's role in all of this. why are they taking sides (seemingly)? that seems very odd and inappropriate. they have no interest in getting the highest price possible only the estate does. biche et al dont work for the pollins they work for WSE (which was/is partially owned by the pollins). if the agreement was more of a stock buy back (seemingly leonsis' position) then shouldnt their interests be more in line with leonsis than the estate?
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#105 » by closg00 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:16 pm

From the way is was presented on 980 today, the Pollin's are trying to go around Abe's wish's for how the team was to be sold after he was gone. The Pollin's come-off as greedy MF'ers to me. It was Abe's hard-work that built the empire, now Irene and son are playing hard-ball with Ted.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#106 » by montestewart » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:32 pm

BanndNDC wrote:
montestewart wrote:As usual, the mediated reporting makes it hard to know what is really going on,

indeed. i wish theyd give us more facts but they never do.

Depending on the language of the contract, he probably has all those rights and can enforce them, but I have yet to hear anyone explain why the family and/or the estate cannot "market" the team, in order to give notice to potential buyers that, at some point, it may be on the open market.


i guess it would depend on the contract but i can see a situation where the appraisal process was purposefully designed not to find the highest possible price but merely produce a number for "fair" compensation. in that situation the sale took place 10 years ago but abe had a sort of life tenancy and the only thing that needed to be determined post-death was a current fmv.

what i really dont get is WSE's role in all of this. why are they taking sides (seemingly)? that seems very odd and inappropriate. they have no interest in getting the highest price possible only the estate does. biche et al dont work for the pollins they work for WSE (which was/is partially owned by the pollins). if the agreement was more of a stock buy back (seemingly leonsis' position) then shouldnt their interests be more in line with leonsis than the estate?


I can see the agreement more toward a fair price (for a part owner that already has shown his commitment) rather than the highest price, but still, with the rarity of franchise transfers and the somewhat unique circumstances here, I can see the Pollin's thinking that other potential buyers could contribute to establishing a fair price, even if that price isn't as high as other buyers were willing to pay.

As far as WSE's role, I mentioned previously the possibility that some executive's bonus is tied to the sale price, but even absent that, it attaches to a larger, more complicated debate (likely more appropriate for the Black Hole thread); that being whether a corporation's primary obligation is to the majority of its shareholders, particularly in protecting, maintaining, and enhancing the value of their shares.

I hope Leonsis has protected himself from this in some way, because his prior purchases showed commitment and good faith. Should some other party purchase the 56%, his 44% would likely not fetch a comparable price; the 56% is worth more to him and he would likely pay a premium to obtain it. Maybe his offer is the highest they'll get, and that could result in a lower appraisal. The Pollins and the estate are likely just posturing; they don't appear to care about the future of the franchise beyond the sale price. Leonsis' press release seems more concerned with the franchise itself. I hope this doesn't end up in court, but if it does and the agreement says what Leonsis implies it does, I can see the Pollins losing big time.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#107 » by verbal8 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:34 pm

closg00 wrote:From the way is was presented on 980 today, the Pollin's are trying to go around Abe's wish's for how the team was to be sold after he was gone. The Pollin's come-off as greedy MF'ers to me. It was Abe's hard-work that built the empire, now Irene and son are playing hard-ball with Ted.


If that is accurate, that really sucks. It is obvious from a lot of what Pollin did that making every last cent off the team was not a high priority for Abe Pollin. They really are doing a diservice to Abe's legacy if they are trying to screw Leonsis out of getting the team at a reasonable price. While in some other cases you could argue the heirs are the owners and entitled to maximize the value of their asset, they implied that they were using Abe's way in their response to the Arenas situation.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#108 » by verbal8 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:39 pm

I predict Leonsis does 3 things when he buys the team:

1. Fire Biche
2. Resolve the Arenas situation
3. Fire Grunfield or the players - I think EG's fate depends on whether Leonsis sees him as following Abe's misguided lead or as leader in the personnel decisions.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#109 » by fifthstop » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:38 pm

As is so often the case with great, self-made men, the heirs are not cut from the same cloth as their father. They're not in the game of building fortunes or empires, they're in the business of protecting to the max the nest-egg the old man made for them. For them it is the only rational path because they cannot grow one of their own. Or they lack to confidence to try. I've seen it alot.

We can expect all kinds of pettiness around getting that sale price as high as possible. I just hope Ted's team did all kinds of due dilligence at signing time and didn't assume the estate would be similar in temprament to the patriarch himself. A handshake or a word of honor are not gonna cut it.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#110 » by BanndNDC » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:57 pm

montestewart wrote:As far as WSE's role, I mentioned previously the possibility that some executive's bonus is tied to the sale price, but even absent that, it attaches to a larger, more complicated debate (likely more appropriate for the Black Hole thread); that being whether a corporation's primary obligation is to the majority of its shareholders, particularly in protecting, maintaining, and enhancing the value of their shares.

it would seem an odd clause to have in a contract for a privately held corporation. hmm... i wonder if his contract was renegotiated post death (in which case it would seem challengable) and the debate is tricky (and black holeesque) but we're not talking about a corporation with any public shares. i was thinking it had more to do with interpersonal issues (a blurring of the wall on the pollins part and an assumption by Biche that he's gone after the sale anyway so might as well support his benefactors).

...The Pollins and the estate are likely just posturing; they don't appear to care about the future of the franchise beyond the sale price. Leonsis' press release seems more concerned with the franchise itself. I hope this doesn't end up in court, but if it does and the agreement says what Leonsis implies it does, I can see the Pollins losing big time.

that's my thought (and hope) as well. especially since leonsis took the worst performing (at the time) assets completely off of abe's hands (he actually paid money for the mystics) and gradually bought more shares when he didnt need to. i think it'd be a real shame if leonsis' prior good faith comes back to hurt him.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#111 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:28 pm

If he has the agreement in writing then it won't come back to hurt him. The Pollins' are being idiots.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#112 » by willbcocks » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:19 am

This definitely belongs in this thread. There is hope for the future guys...


http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1264828444870RA57
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#113 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:12 pm

willbcocks wrote:This definitely belongs in this thread. There is hope for the future guys...


http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1264828444870RA57


LOOOOOLLLL!!! I was like, "WTF?"
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#114 » by JWizmentality » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:53 pm

willbcocks wrote:This definitely belongs in this thread. There is hope for the future guys...


http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1264828444870RA57


Who made that...and more importantly, how can we hack into the jumbotron and play it at the next home game?
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#115 » by closg00 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:10 pm

verbal8 wrote:I predict Leonsis does 3 things when he buys the team:

1. Fire Biche
2. Resolve the Arenas situation
3. Fire Grunfield or the players - I think EG's fate depends on whether Leonsis sees him as following Abe's misguided lead or as leader in the personnel decisions.


I just hope that the new ownership group is in-place before the next draft so we don't end-up trading or selling our picks again.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#116 » by Rafael122 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:38 pm

I really think this whole "once Leonsis buys the team, everything will be OK" argument is overrated. You guys are making him out to be the Messiah and savior of this franchise, mostly because of the success he had with the Caps. Keep in mind, the NHL and NBA are different beasts. Secondly, the guy failed big time when he signed Jagr to that money deal, and that set the franchise back a few years. Third, the team was terrible for about 5 years until they got Ovechkin, which was a no brainer pick at the time. I'm not saying Leonsis is terrible, but he lucked into a lot of these situations and all of a sudden he looks like a genius.

I want him to be the owner of the Wizards, but I don't expect things to be OK overnight.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#117 » by Donkey McDonkerton » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:20 pm

Rafael122 wrote:I really think this whole "once Leonsis buys the team, everything will be OK" argument is overrated. You guys are making him out to be the Messiah and savior of this franchise, mostly because of the success he had with the Caps. Keep in mind, the NHL and NBA are different beasts. Secondly, the guy failed big time when he signed Jagr to that money deal, and that set the franchise back a few years. Third, the team was terrible for about 5 years until they got Ovechkin, which was a no brainer pick at the time. I'm not saying Leonsis is terrible, but he lucked into a lot of these situations and all of a sudden he looks like a genius.

I want him to be the owner of the Wizards, but I don't expect things to be OK overnight.


:evil: BAD FORM MAN, BAD FORM

We need something to look forward to.

He learned his lesson already, especially signing players like Jagr.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#118 » by Rafael122 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:31 pm

Well he had to, the team was losing money, attendance was going down. There was nowhere to go but up.

He built through the draft, and signed key guys. That's great and all, to build through the draft. But guess what? In the NBA, it's 2 rounds. NHL...who knows...they pick like 12-15 players, if not more, every year. So if you've got a lottery pick, and the guy turns out to be a bust, that's gonna set your team back 5 years. Look at Kwame.

Just saying, Leonsis has had success, but like I said, part of it was luck. The other part is that he had nowhere else to go but up. His team couldn't get any worse.
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#119 » by JWizmentality » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:48 pm

^^ Are you implying that the Wiz have room to get worse? :(
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Re: Doc's Official "All Things Ted Leonsis" Thread 

Post#120 » by closg00 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:55 pm

Raf, what else do we have to look forward to? The sooner the Pollin's, Unseld's, and Grunfeld are gone the better.

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