Has the Big Three Era Closed?

Jammer · Post #1 » by **Jammer** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:28 pm

Winning championships requires outstanding performances from your top players.
When the Celtics won 11 Championships in 13 years, their top 7 players during the
last two years were rock solid under pressure, especially their top 4.

These past 3 games against Orlando, Atlanta and the Lakers were the measuring stick
for where the team stood, but in particular; in a big game match against
likely playoff opponents, what did the Big Three have left?

We all watched the games. The numbers look worse than their actual play.

The Three Game Averages for the Celtics top 4 players.

Ray: 37 mpg, 12 ppg, 3 rpg, 1.7 apg, 14-35 FG (40%)
Paul: 36.7 mpg, 20.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.7 apg, 18-38 FG (47%)
KG: 31.3 mpg, 10.3 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 3 apg, 12-27 FG (44.4%) Career Average is like 54%
Rajon: 39 mpg, 12.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 9.3 apg, 17-38 FG (44.7%)

So, have we just witnessed the "unofficial" end of the reign of the Big Three,
and is it now the Rondo-Pierce era?

Zin5 · Post #2 » by **Zin5** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:40 pm

The era for over reactionary threads is still certainly open.

The merit of the big three will come in the postseason, not in three of the first five games since KG's been back from injury during the regular season. As fans, we'd of course love to see these wins, but they aren't as important to the Celtics. They're the ones that are putting their bodies out there and know how important it is to be healthy for the playoffs.

Pierce is definitely still having a great year, KG hasn't had a chance to get his legs under him, and I think Ray's received a little too much undeserved flak this year (he's still playing on great percentages and a huge part of why he's looked bad is that he's been the only one healthy all year; therefore he's played in every loss).

Post #3 » by **canman1971** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:40 pm

I would not say "closed", but it is not as open as many had hoped. I am now coming to the realization that RA might need to be traded in order for this team to contend. Unfortunately, I don't think Ainge feels the same way or has the balls to be that bold in the middle of a season/playoff run. It all hinges on KG's health. We truly don't know if he will improve or this is as good as it gets. Time will tell.

klemen4 · Post #4 » by **klemen4** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:41 pm

Its Rondo-Perkins-Pierce time

I give Pierce this and next season on the same level, after he will decline

KG must accept smaller role concentrate on commanding the defense and be solid. It time for Ray to accept E.House role of the bench as 6th man...we need energetic sg who can penetrate and draw fouls.

Bad-Thoma · Post #5 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:41 pm

It's a long season man, the team has been plagued with injuries and trying to find it's indentity. It's not like they are getting blown out in the process, some tough losses and blown leads might be painful and it seems like the heart isn't there.... but it's a long season. If we can get some continuity and some health and things can come together where we are hitting stride heading into the playoffs I still like our chances. A "3 game average" is an awfully small sample size to use to declare an "end of an era". If the ship isn't righted by the end of the season and the playoffs are fail, sure, turn the page and move on but..... it's a long season. Not time to give up yet.

Avalanche · Post #6 » by **Avalanche** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:41 pm

We are just a "team" now..

there is no dominant player, no one who knows the offense better then the others

we are a team, and we can win a title that way

BillessuR6 · Post #7 » by **BillessuR6** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:41 pm

I think KG still has a lot to offer. But Ray Allen`s days are number. If we want another ring we need to use Ray`s contract to bring in an upgrade at the SG spot...

CapeCrusader · Post #8 » by **CapeCrusader** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:42 pm

Its not like the last 3 loses were against nobodys...they were against elite teams in league.

sprash9802 · Post #9 » by **sprash9802** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:44 pm

CapeCrusader wrote:Its not like the last 3 loses were against nobodys...they were against elite teams in league.

Precisely the reason to be even more skeptical... Ainge has a ticking time bomb on his hands.

SichtingLives · Post #10 » by **SichtingLives** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:55 pm

canman1971 wrote:I would not say "closed", but it is not as open as many had hoped. I am now coming to the realization that RA might need to be traded in order for this team to contend. Unfortunately, I don't think Ainge feels the same way or has the balls to be that bold in the middle of a season/playoff run. It all hinges on KG's health. We truly don't know if he will improve or this is as good as it gets. Time will tell.

Can, even if KG does improve, it's only likely to be as good as he was in December. Which is pretty good but not enough to put this team over the top.

A trade is essential and it should involve Ray for more than one reason. Danny needs to save Doc from himself, and even if Ray has a shooting revival his defense still kills us. Plus that contract can bring us more than 1 capable player.

Bottom line for me is that we still have the skills but not the stamina or athleticism anymore to compete with the best teams. We need some younger legs on this team or we're just going to run KG, Paul, Ray further into the ground. How much better can it get for these guys when they're already being overplayed in January? We need help on the bench AND in the starting lineup.

Let's see what happens when Marquis comes back first, but I don't think I'm likely to change my mind on this.

return2glory · Post #11 » by **return2glory** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:59 pm

Why is did even a question? The answer is yes.

Here are the reasons.

1. KG is old and hurt. 2 years ago, he was a top 10-15 player in the NBA. Now I wouldn't even consider him a top 50 player. But the problem is that he is still getting paid like a top 10 player.

2. Ray Allen is the oldest of the 3. He is struggling because of age. He is not even close to being an all-star anymore. His game has declined a lot this year and he is struggling with his shot. Doc Rivers is an idiot for playing Ray all these minutes.

3. Pierce is getting up there in age as well. He doesn't get to the line as much as he used to. He can't take over games on a regular basis anymore. Ainge needs to consider trading Pierce in the off season because he is the only asset of the so called big 3.

klemen4 · Post #12 » by **klemen4** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:03 am

I will say this one more time...

If Ray can bring us Iguodala, Martin or even Ellis he has to be traded...

Martin would be amazing, but I really doubt SAC will trade him.

SichtingLives · Post #13 » by **SichtingLives** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:07 am

klemen4 wrote:I will say this one more time...

If Ray can bring us Iguodala, Martin or even Ellis he has to be traded...

Martin would be amazing, but I really doubt SAC will trade him.

You never know, seems his presence may be stunting the development of Evans and I think they'd rather move forward with him than Martin if they have to choose, plus Sac has been going nowhere for a while. Still, I just can't picture us actually getting him, I don't see any way we have enough to offer.

Avalanche · Post #14 » by **Avalanche** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:09 am

If Philly is desperate to save money a Ray for Iguadala/Delambert deal has to be explored

We need to be more athletic, faster and more energetic.. Iguadala brings that, as well as better defense and constant scoring all be it without a great outside shot

armageddon · Post #15 » by **armageddon** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:10 am

If this was Theo's team (or mine), we have to be happy that we won one championship with this team. We have only ONE way of improving this team - trading expiring contracts.

Ray traded this year, Paul traded next year or this off-season, KG traded the next year. If we don't do this, we have zero other options.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #16 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:35 am

Come on now..we are right there with the top teams. We lost to the Lakers by 1, and we had them down 11 int he 4th. Same thing with the Magic. And vs the Hawks we have our troubles, but still..it's not like they blew us out of the water in any of the losses.

We need a move that can put us over the top...from the looks of todays game, it doesn't have to be a ridiculously huge move. Just something that can improve our team, at the SG position..that's our weakest position right now IMO. Ray Allen, lord forbid, has absolutely SUCKED lately..something like..Scalabrine level of suckyness. He used to put us OVER the top on many games..he is just..invisible now. You have people wanting Tony friggin Allen to play, just because he can score 8 pts, and Ray has such difficulty in doing even that. Ray needs to be moved to the bench, and somebody needs to come to replace him. KG will either come back to playing 16-10 type ball, or get injured for good, so I'm not worried about him now. Paul is fine, Rondo is fine, Perk is fine. Ray is killing us. We need his scoring, and he just can't do it anymore. Once Daniels gets back, Ray will see ALOT of bench time, and that's IF he is still here. Only reason he doesn't see it now is because Doc doesn't trust TA...he trusts Daniels though.

Lewis35 · Post #17 » by **Lewis35** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 12:43 am

CapeCrusader wrote:Its not like the last 3 loses were against nobodys...they were against elite teams in league.

And they lost to each of them. What does that tell you about this team?

As for the window being closed I am not going to say it is 100% closed but it is pretty damn close. I know Ainge is looking to trade Allen but like Canman said I doubt Ainge has the guts.

Captain_Caveman · Post #18 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 1:19 am

It is absolutely over.

Ray is washed up and KG is playing on one leg.

Rondo has been better than either of them for at least a year now.

Captain_Caveman · Post #19 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 1:20 am

CapeCrusader wrote:Its not like the last 3 loses were against nobodys...they were against elite teams in league.

It's not like we have a single quality win since Christmas.

It was a good ride, but it is over now.

return2glory · Post #20 » by **return2glory** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 1:39 am

Avalanche wrote:We are just a "team" now..

there is no dominant player, no one who knows the offense better then the others

we are a team, and we can win a title that way

That's exactly what we are Avalanche.

As far as winning a title, that's going to be very challenging. In most cases the team that wins the title has a superstar. Barring any injuries, the Lakers and Cavs are the favorites because of their superstars.