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OT: Guns, what should I buy?

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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#61 » by Al n' Perk No Layups! » Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:06 am

grumpysaddle wrote:most nutrients you find in store bought meats are incomplete anyway. and who said anything about no civilization. humans were at one point herbivore.


Complete lie. Humans were never herbivorous. Humans have always been predatory omnivores.

over time, hunting and eating meat over thousands of years made it essential for humans to get certain nutrients found in meat.



Biology doesn’t work like that. You can’t just change your dietary needs because you want to. If humans were herbivorous we wouldn’t have been chowing on all that meat in the first place, it would have been a huge waste of time an energy. What makes it essential to eat meat is we cannot produce those vitamins and nutrients on our own by eating plants or photosynthesis so we must get them from creatures that can (by consuming them).

but we aren't living in the wild, there is civilization. you don't need to eat meat anymore to get the vitamins and protein you need to be healthy.


You don’t need to eat plants, go chow on some artificially made, nutrient loaded paste so you aren’t harming any life forms.

take some vitamins, eat a well rounded diet with different vegetables and fruits and you're good to go. meat is totally unnecessary to consume these days.


Except that it is.

and don't give me that tired "plants are living beings, too" B.S. plants don't have a central nervous system. plants can't feel pain. its not the same as killing an animal.


It is the same thing.

Although plants are generally immobile and lack the most obvious brain activities of animals and humans, they are not only able to show all the attributes
of intelligent behaviour but they are also equipped with neuronal molecules,
especially synaptotagmins and glutamate/glycine-gated glutamate receptors.
Recent advances in plant cell biology allowed identification of plant synapses
transporting the plant-specific neurotransmitter-like molecule, auxin. This
suggests that synaptic communication is not limited to animals and humans
but seems to be widespread throughout plant tissues. Root apices seated at
the anterior pole of the plant body show many features which allow us to
propose that they, especially their transition zones, act in some way as brainlike
command centres. The opposite posterior pole harbours sexual organs
and is specialized for plant reproduction. Last but not least, we propose that
vascular tissues represent highways for plant nervous activity allowing rapid
exchange of information between the growing points of above-ground organs
and the brain-like zones in the root apices.


http://ds9.botanik.uni-bonn.de/zellbio/ ... ologia.pdf

Pain is not a complex emotional state, it’s a basic perception that notifies the brain that a certain part of the body is damaged and not to use that part until it heals. Plants don’t need pain because they don’t move. Plants do however know when they are damaged and they react accordingly. Plants can also communicate with other plants to warn them of danger. They can even call for backup. There isn’t any realistic difference between plants and most animals that calls for animals to be anthropomorphized while plants are treated like rocks. Plants are every bit as alive and “aware” as most animals.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#62 » by rsavaj » Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:37 pm

Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I don't suggest anyone buying meat in the first place. Its unnecessary in the human diet.


That's not true at all. The only reason you can survive without eating meat is because essential vitamins and minerals are artificially added to foods (Ex: Vitamin D is only naturally found in beef liver, eggs, some fish (and fish liver oil) and sunlight (you can get up to 50% of what you need from the sun) but humans artificially add it to many things, such as milk). Even that aside, without civilization a vegetarian diet would not be possible. In the wild it would be extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible) to meet the energy requirement that a human body needs with a vegetarian diet. Even if you could pull it off for a little while, you couldn't live like that forever.

And before you break out the morality arguement on me, plants are living beings too. Not being able to squeak doesn't make them any less alive than a mouse.




As an aside, anyone who claims that shooting an animal is easy or unfair has never shot a gun in their lives.


My moral opposition to eating meat is not the act of eating meat itself(I really don't care about that). It's the process that PRODUCES the meat that really, really ticks me off. Factory farming is absolutely horrible, inhumane, and cruel.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#63 » by rsavaj » Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:39 pm

btw, I've been "deprived" of meat all my life and I'm not "permanently damaged"...
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#64 » by MaryvalesFinest » Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:45 pm

rsavaj wrote:btw, I've been "deprived" of meat all my life and I'm not "permanently damaged"...


How come you couldn't eat meat?
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#65 » by rsavaj » Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:49 pm

MaryvalesFinest wrote:
rsavaj wrote:btw, I've been "deprived" of meat all my life and I'm not "permanently damaged"...


How come you couldn't eat meat?


Not "couldn't, "didn't". I was referring to the article that he linked to that said that if you didn't eat meat in your formative years, you're going to be "permanently damaged". I've been a vegetarian my entire life.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#66 » by MaryvalesFinest » Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:51 pm

Oh I thought you meant something else my bad.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#67 » by MrCheckOne2 » Thu Feb 4, 2010 12:18 am

well the way meat is produced is simply a business. If you have a more efficient, better, cheap way to feed 300 plus million people on the US (with bout 1 in 8 suffering hunger) then by all means start your business and if it's better you will outdo meat factories and all. Yes, it's inhumane, but it's the cheapest, most efficient way to put the most food out there at reasonable prices.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#68 » by garrick » Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:25 am

MrCheckOne2 wrote:well the way meat is produced is simply a business. If you have a more efficient, better, cheap way to feed 300 plus million people on the US (with bout 1 in 8 suffering hunger) then by all means start your business and if it's better you will outdo meat factories and all. Yes, it's inhumane, but it's the cheapest, most efficient way to put the most food out there at reasonable prices.

Eating meat these days especially beef if not really safe because of all the medication they give to cows, you can look up the horrors of the US Beef & Pork industry on youtube and you'll be shocked at what goes on. Animals are injected with medicines and hormones which make their way into your body when you eat meat, it's no coincidence that the rates of cancer and other rare disorders have skyrocketed in the past 50 years when you see how these chemicals have worked their way into the food that we consume every single day.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#69 » by Biff » Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:46 am

rsavaj wrote:
Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I don't suggest anyone buying meat in the first place. Its unnecessary in the human diet.


That's not true at all. The only reason you can survive without eating meat is because essential vitamins and minerals are artificially added to foods (Ex: Vitamin D is only naturally found in beef liver, eggs, some fish (and fish liver oil) and sunlight (you can get up to 50% of what you need from the sun) but humans artificially add it to many things, such as milk). Even that aside, without civilization a vegetarian diet would not be possible. In the wild it would be extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible) to meet the energy requirement that a human body needs with a vegetarian diet. Even if you could pull it off for a little while, you couldn't live like that forever.

And before you break out the morality arguement on me, plants are living beings too. Not being able to squeak doesn't make them any less alive than a mouse.

As an aside, anyone who claims that shooting an animal is easy or unfair has never shot a gun in their lives.


My moral opposition to eating meat is not the act of eating meat itself(I really don't care about that). It's the process that PRODUCES the meat that really, really ticks me off. Factory farming is absolutely horrible, inhumane, and cruel.



The agricultural industry isn't much different. We kill off all invasive or competing plants so we can grow only the ones we want. You're also killing various rodents/small animals (gophers, ground squirrels, rabbits, etc.) during factory farming due to the use of large farming equipment, plowing, seeding, harvesting, etc. We use pesticides to kill off any insects that might think about munching on it, we use herbicides and fungicides, synthetic fertilizers: It's not very pretty, but that's what we get when we want to feed 6 billion people and do it efficiently and at a reasonable profit. You can harp about moral sentiments all you want, but it's a two way street like Al n Perk said.

I'm not happy with how we produce food, but I really don't have much of a choice. Organic food really isn't much better at this point, they use many of the same techniques that big-agro uses. Growing all my own food to fit my caloric needs is unrealistic, so that's also out of the question. I shop at the local co-op here in Tucson as often as possible, but I'm skeptical about any sort of impact that makes: it more or less just allows me to pat myself on the back and feel good about a decision I made.

So if it makes you feel better, do it, because who cares otherwise? But if you miss eating meat at all, I don't think the morality argument is really strong enough that it should stop you from doing so.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#70 » by Al n' Perk No Layups! » Thu Feb 4, 2010 8:55 am

garrick wrote:
MrCheckOne2 wrote:well the way meat is produced is simply a business. If you have a more efficient, better, cheap way to feed 300 plus million people on the US (with bout 1 in 8 suffering hunger) then by all means start your business and if it's better you will outdo meat factories and all. Yes, it's inhumane, but it's the cheapest, most efficient way to put the most food out there at reasonable prices.


Eating meat these days especially beef if not really safe because of all the medication they give to cows, you can look up the horrors of the US Beef & Pork industry on youtube and you'll be shocked at what goes on. Animals are injected with medicines and hormones which make their way into your body when you eat meat, it's no coincidence that the rates of cancer and other rare disorders have skyrocketed in the past 50 years when you see how these chemicals have worked their way into the food that we consume every single day.


That’s not true. The US beef industry is one of the most heavily scrutinized and regulated industries in the world. The hormones used in meat are estradiol, testosterone, progesterone, zeranol (synthetic) and trenbolone acetate (synthetic). Estradiol, testosterone and progesterone are found in humans, they are natural occurring hormones. Melengesterol acetate is also approved as a feed additive. Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) of the World Health Organization, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United States, the Codex Committee on Residues of Veterinary Drugs in Foods (CC/RVDF) and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) among others have all concluded these hormones are safe. The FDA and various other organizations have also tested the hormone raised meat and concluded there is no discernable difference between hormone raised beef and normal beef. Even if there were a miniscule difference, it’s still well below what would be a danger to humans. The hormones are administered either through feed or through tiny implants located in the animal’s ear (since ears are not sold for human consumption). The hormones are released into the bloodstream very slowly which ensures a low and safe concentration. The hormone levels produced in meat are much lower than found in humans; one pound of beef raised using synthetic estradiol contains about fifteen thousand times less of this hormone than the amount produced daily by the average man and roughly nine million times less than the amount produced by a pregnant woman. Even a young child would need to eat sixteen pounds of beef daily to produce a one percent increase in the production of estradiol.

Antibiotics are only administered when an animal has a disease, in the same manner that a human will only receive antibiotics when he/she is sick. There is a required withdrawal period before an animal is slaughtered so the body can rid itself of any antibiotic residue. This procedure has proven to be safe.

You shouldn’t rely on youtube for your information. It’s an extremely unreliable source.

Here’s a good roundup on the process of beef production if you’re interested:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Be ... /index.asp
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#71 » by DevilsAdv » Thu Feb 4, 2010 9:22 am

Guns are for pigs and pussies.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#72 » by garrick » Thu Feb 4, 2010 9:52 am

Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
garrick wrote:
MrCheckOne2 wrote:well the way meat is produced is simply a business. If you have a more efficient, better, cheap way to feed 300 plus million people on the US (with bout 1 in 8 suffering hunger) then by all means start your business and if it's better you will outdo meat factories and all. Yes, it's inhumane, but it's the cheapest, most efficient way to put the most food out there at reasonable prices.


Eating meat these days especially beef if not really safe because of all the medication they give to cows, you can look up the horrors of the US Beef & Pork industry on youtube and you'll be shocked at what goes on. Animals are injected with medicines and hormones which make their way into your body when you eat meat, it's no coincidence that the rates of cancer and other rare disorders have skyrocketed in the past 50 years when you see how these chemicals have worked their way into the food that we consume every single day.


That’s not true. The US beef industry is one of the most heavily scrutinized and regulated industries in the world. The hormones used in meat are estradiol, testosterone, progesterone, zeranol (synthetic) and trenbolone acetate (synthetic). Estradiol, testosterone and progesterone are found in humans, they are natural occurring hormones. Melengesterol acetate is also approved as a feed additive. Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) of the World Health Organization, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United States, the Codex Committee on Residues of Veterinary Drugs in Foods (CC/RVDF) and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) among others have all concluded these hormones are safe. The FDA and various other organizations have also tested the hormone raised meat and concluded there is no discernable difference between hormone raised beef and normal beef. Even if there were a miniscule difference, it’s still well below what would be a danger to humans. The hormones are administered either through feed or through tiny implants located in the animal’s ear (since ears are not sold for human consumption). The hormones are released into the bloodstream very slowly which ensures a low and safe concentration. The hormone levels produced in meat are much lower than found in humans; one pound of beef raised using synthetic estradiol contains about fifteen thousand times less of this hormone than the amount produced daily by the average man and roughly nine million times less than the amount produced by a pregnant woman. Even a young child would need to eat sixteen pounds of beef daily to produce a one percent increase in the production of estradiol.

Antibiotics are only administered when an animal has a disease, in the same manner that a human will only receive antibiotics when he/she is sick. There is a required withdrawal period before an animal is slaughtered so the body can rid itself of any antibiotic residue. This procedure has proven to be safe.

You shouldn’t rely on youtube for your information. It’s an extremely unreliable source.

Here’s a good roundup on the process of beef production if you’re interested:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Be ... /index.asp

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/12/28/pressure_rises_to_stop_antibiotics_in_agriculture/
Antibiotics are not administered only when animals are sick, they're administered to prevent disease from flaring up even if animals are not sick.
But Kremer's red-hot leg ballooned to double its size. A strep infection spread, threatening his life and baffling doctors. Two months of multiple antibiotics did virtually nothing.

The answer was flowing in the veins of the boar. The animal had been fed low doses of penicillin, spawning a strain of strep that was resistant to other antibiotics. That drug-resistant germ passed to Kremer.

Like Kremer, more and more Americans -- many of them living far from barns and pastures -- are at risk from the widespread practice of feeding livestock antibiotics. These animals grow faster, but they can also develop drug-resistant infections that are passed on to people. The issue is now gaining attention because of interest from a new White House administration and a flurry of new research tying antibiotic use in animals to drug resistance in people.

Researchers say the overuse of antibiotics in humans and animals has led to a plague of drug-resistant infections that killed more than 65,000 people in the U.S. last year -- more than prostate and breast cancer combined. And in a nation that used about 35 million pounds of antibiotics last year, 70 percent of the drugs -- 28 million pounds -- went to pigs, chickens and cows. Worldwide, it's 50 percent.


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/pb-lmr022508.php
Largest meat recall in history 'only the tip of the iceberg'
Slaughterhouse expert and humane farming investigator reveals the shocking story of greed, neglect, and inhumane treatment inside the US meat industry
329 pages; ISBN 978-1-59102-450-7; Paperback: $19.
Click here for more information.

On Sunday, February 17, 2008 the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued its largest meat recall in United States history, less than three weeks after a slaughterhouse worker secretly made a tape depicting violations of federal animal care regulations by a Westland division of the Hallmark Company. Upon investigation, the Humane Society of the United States found animals too sick to walk or stand- called 電owners・by industry- being kicked, beaten, dragged with chains, shocked with electric prods, sprayed in the face with hoses and rammed by forklifts to get them to stand and pass USDA inspection. Of the 143 million pounds of beef recalled, 37 million were likely already consumed. With 20 meat recalls issued last year alone, one of more than 20 millions pounds, Americans are left to question their trust in the USDA and wonder exactly what happens to their food before it enters their mouths.

SLAUGHTERHOUSE: THE SHOCKING STORY OF GREED, NEGLECT, AND INHUMANE TREATMENT INSIDE THE U.S. MEAT INDUSTRY by Gail A. Eisnitz ($19, Prometheus Books, 2006) is the first book of its kind to explore the impact that unprecedented changes in the meat packing industry over the last 25 years have had on workers, animals and consumers. It is also the first time ever that workers- in this case, individuals who have spent a combined total of more than two million hours on the kill floor- have spoken publicly about what痴 really taking place behind the closed doors of America痴 slaughterhouses. Depicting inadequate inspection and control of slaughterhouses and the use of 電owners,・author Gail A. Eisnitz penetrates the veil that hangs over meat production and shocks readers with what she has found.


http://utcare.sa.utoronto.ca/meat2.htm

There's a growing amount of evidence that a meat-based diet actually quite unhealthy for people. But instead of the perspective of "vegetarian diets are healthier than meat-based diets" that you may have heard before, we're going to present to you information that you may not have been aware of: the filthy and unsanitary conditions of slaughterhouses contaminate almost all meats that we eat. "... Increasingly, meat covered with feces, abscesses, tumors, hair, and maggots has moved into the human food system; some plants are infested with cockroaches and rats; and condemned meat is taken out of trash barrels and returned to production lines."


I don't really trust the USDA and FDA to honestly know that these antibiotics and hormones don't have an adverse effect on the human body, for one their tests are most likely short term but have tests ever been taken to study the long term effects of these hormones and antibiotics on the human body?
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#73 » by garrick » Thu Feb 4, 2010 9:55 am

One last link about hormones in meat possibly causing cancer in humans.
http://www.preventcancer.com/press/editorials/march10_92.htm



U.S. Policy Turns Blind Side to Dangers of Meat Additives

Austin American-Statesman, March 8, 1989, p. A15

The United States is alone among other meat-exporting countries, including Argentina and Australia, in accusing the European Economic Community of unfair trade practices in its Jan. 1 ban of hormone-treated U.S. meat and threatening retaliatory sanctions. These actions ignore questions on the dangers of contaminated meat that concern European consumers who pressured the EEC into banning hormones additives two years ago.


The industry then switched to other carcinogenic additives, particularly naturalhormones. Unlike the synthetic DES whose residues can be monitored and whose use was conditional on seven days' pre-slaughter, withdrawal, natural hormone residues are not detectable as they cannot be routinely differentiated form hormones produced in the body. Since 1983, the FDA has allowedunregulated use of these additives right up to slaughter, subject only to the non-enforceable requirement that meat residues must be under 1 percent of children's daily hormonal production.

The dangers of hormone additives were signaled by an epidemic of premature sexual development and ovarian cysts in 3,000 Puerto Rican infants and children from 1979 to 1981. These effects were traced to contamination of meat and were reversed by dietary changes. Using research techniques, meat products were found highly contaminated with estrogens, and Zeranol and excess estrogens were found in the blood of afflicted children. This epidemic also was associated with increased uterine and ovarian cancers in adults.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#74 » by Biff » Thu Feb 4, 2010 5:52 pm

You can buy meat that isn't pumped full of antibiotics and hormones if you want. It's also healthier to eat beef from cows that were grass fed. That kind of beef costs a lot of money. I don't eat very much beef, it's too damn expensive to get the good stuff (or the cheap lean meat isn't very tasty/too tough). I realize chickens are put under similar conditions, but I see recalls for vegetables for salmonella and e. coli all the time, so what am I going to do? Stop eating? I'm a college student and can't afford to eat only locally grown food from small farmers. We wouldn't be able to afford our lifestyles (cable tv, internet, computers, cell phones, etc.) if food prices were more in-line with historical averages. Food is cheap because of how efficiently we produce it and because of how cheap it is we are able to live more luxurious lifestyles.

There's a cancer scare behind everything, but here's thing; we're all going to die one day. I know we'd all like to die in our sleep when we're 90, but that's not realistic. We never know how or when we're going to go, so there's no point in constantly worrying about it. Maybe we get cancer at 55, maybe we die in a car accident at 32, maybe we die of heart disease at 60. Who knows. There's a million different things out there that can kill you, we are fragile creatures, but how much are you really living if you're constantly concerned about it?
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#75 » by GrapeApe » Thu Feb 4, 2010 8:21 pm

garrick wrote:Eating meat these days especially beef if not really safe because of all the medication they give to cows, you can look up the horrors of the US Beef & Pork industry on youtube and you'll be shocked at what goes on. Animals are injected with medicines and hormones which make their way into your body when you eat meat, it's no coincidence that the rates of cancer and other rare disorders have skyrocketed in the past 50 years when you see how these chemicals have worked their way into the food that we consume every single day.


Yep. When I want scientific analysis the first place I head is youtube.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#76 » by GrapeApe » Thu Feb 4, 2010 8:24 pm

rsavaj wrote:
My moral opposition to eating meat is not the act of eating meat itself(I really don't care about that). It's the process that PRODUCES the meat that really, really ticks me off. Factory farming is absolutely horrible, inhumane, and cruel.


So you support hunting.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#77 » by garrick » Fri Feb 5, 2010 4:29 pm

GrapeApe wrote:
garrick wrote:Eating meat these days especially beef if not really safe because of all the medication they give to cows, you can look up the horrors of the US Beef & Pork industry on youtube and you'll be shocked at what goes on. Animals are injected with medicines and hormones which make their way into your body when you eat meat, it's no coincidence that the rates of cancer and other rare disorders have skyrocketed in the past 50 years when you see how these chemicals have worked their way into the food that we consume every single day.


Yep. When I want scientific analysis the first place I head is youtube.

Check the links I posted. None are from youtube but you could find the same info on there too. :roll:
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#78 » by Al n' Perk No Layups! » Sat Feb 6, 2010 9:29 pm

garrick wrote:[Antibiotics are not administered only when animals are sick, they're administered to prevent disease from flaring up even if animals are not sick.


Antibiotics are administered when an animal is sick or after it has recovered from the disease to prevent reoccurrence; those animals will still go through the required withdrawal phase. Healthy animals that have not contracted a disease in the past are not given antibiotics.

But Kremer's red-hot leg ballooned to double its size. A strep infection spread, threatening his life and baffling doctors. Two months of multiple antibiotics did virtually nothing.

The answer was flowing in the veins of the boar. The animal had been fed low doses of penicillin, spawning a strain of strep that was resistant to other antibiotics. That drug-resistant germ passed to Kremer.

Like Kremer, more and more Americans -- many of them living far from barns and pastures -- are at risk from the widespread practice of feeding livestock antibiotics. These animals grow faster, but they can also develop drug-resistant infections that are passed on to people. The issue is now gaining attention because of interest from a new White House administration and a flurry of new research tying antibiotic use in animals to drug resistance in people.

Researchers say the overuse of antibiotics in humans and animals has led to a plague of drug-resistant infections that killed more than 65,000 people in the U.S. last year -- more than prostate and breast cancer combined. And in a nation that used about 35 million pounds of antibiotics last year, 70 percent of the drugs -- 28 million pounds -- went to pigs, chickens and cows. Worldwide, it's 50 percent.




The article is very misleading. First thing to note is the guy who got infected was gored by a boar. His infection was not a result of contaminated meat; the boar was still on antibiotics and was not being prepared for slaughter. The farmer should have gotten treatment after getting gored. Boars are not very clean animals.

The second thing to note is the writer states that overuse of antibiotics in humans and animals has led to an increase in antibiotic resistant infections, killing 65,000 people. This is true (I have had to deal with an antibiotic resistant infection myself), but the vast majority is from the human side of the equation (People getting an infection then taking drugs improperly). I could say that cancer and hopscotch killed a combined 300,000 people last year but does that mean hopscotch is extremely dangerous? No, it means cancer killed 299,999 people and one horrible hopscotch accident took another life. While what the writer wrote is technically true, he packaged it in a way to mislead his audience. Further, most of the deadly animal transmitted antibiotic resistant diseases are caused by direct contact with an animal (ex: a boar inserting its tusk into your leg). It’s important to note that the antibiotics themselves are not causing any diseases; the diseases are already in the animal and have become resistant to the antibiotic, when it is removed they multiply and are much harder to kill the second time around. Also, the diseases that you could get from eating meat specifically (salmonella (causes about 30 deaths yearly, usually acquired from chicken eggs) and campylobacter (not deadly) and maybe a few others) can be avoided by cooking the meat properly (freezing meat can also kill some bacteria).

Here’s a factsheet about antibiotic resistant infections:

http://ecdc.europa.eu/en/eaad/antibioti ... perts.aspx

Largest meat recall in history 'only the tip of the iceberg'
Slaughterhouse expert and humane farming investigator reveals the shocking story of greed, neglect, and inhumane treatment inside the US meat industry
329 pages; ISBN 978-1-59102-450-7; Paperback: $19.
Click here for more information.

On Sunday, February 17, 2008 the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued its largest meat recall in United States history, less than three weeks after a slaughterhouse worker secretly made a tape depicting violations of federal animal care regulations by a Westland division of the Hallmark Company. Upon investigation, the Humane Society of the United States found animals too sick to walk or stand- called 電owners・by industry- being kicked, beaten, dragged with chains, shocked with electric prods, sprayed in the face with hoses and rammed by forklifts to get them to stand and pass USDA inspection. Of the 143 million pounds of beef recalled, 37 million were likely already consumed. With 20 meat recalls issued last year alone, one of more than 20 millions pounds, Americans are left to question their trust in the USDA and wonder exactly what happens to their food before it enters their mouths.

SLAUGHTERHOUSE: THE SHOCKING STORY OF GREED, NEGLECT, AND INHUMANE TREATMENT INSIDE THE U.S. MEAT INDUSTRY by Gail A. Eisnitz ($19, Prometheus Books, 2006) is the first book of its kind to explore the impact that unprecedented changes in the meat packing industry over the last 25 years have had on workers, animals and consumers. It is also the first time ever that workers- in this case, individuals who have spent a combined total of more than two million hours on the kill floor- have spoken publicly about what痴 really taking place behind the closed doors of America痴 slaughterhouses. Depicting inadequate inspection and control of slaughterhouses and the use of 電owners,・author Gail A. Eisnitz penetrates the veil that hangs over meat production and shocks readers with what she has found.




Extraordinarily sensationalistic book excerpt aside, there are two things to note about the recall. First, the plant was shut down; they weren’t allowed to walk away from that. Second, a lot of that meat had already been consumed and it’s unlikely that the meat was contaminated.
Sometimes something slips through the cracks and its bad news, but it happens in every single industry. Life is risky.

There's a growing amount of evidence that a meat-based diet actually quite unhealthy for people. But instead of the perspective of "vegetarian diets are healthier than meat-based diets" that you may have heard before, we're going to present to you information that you may not have been aware of: the filthy and unsanitary conditions of slaughterhouses contaminate almost all meats that we eat. "... Increasingly, meat covered with feces, abscesses, tumors, hair, and maggots has moved into the human food system; some plants are infested with cockroaches and rats; and condemned meat is taken out of trash barrels and returned to production lines."



The third site is just not a trustable source. It’s a website that belongs to an animal activist group (CARE) and the article is completely lacking in legitimate sources. The only source they ever reference is the book in excerpt number two which is written by another activist with very questionable sourcing of her own. I don’t think you would trust something written by the beef industry saying that all meat is always safe, animal activists are the other side of that coin.

I don't really trust the USDA and FDA to honestly know that these antibiotics and hormones don't have an adverse effect on the human body, for one their tests are most likely short term but have tests ever been taken to study the long term effects of these hormones and antibiotics on the human body?


The hormones in question have been studied since the 1950s and have been in widespread use in the US and Canada since the early 80s. There has been no evidence of any ill effects found in humans from any of the hormones.

The US, Canada and other major beef-producing countries believe that such a scientific consensus exists on the safety of beef produced using hormones. In addition to nearly fifty years of scientific study in individual countries and the widespread and long term use of hormones in beef production in over twenty countries – i.e. there is evidence from an experiment writ large – a wide range of international scientific bodies, of which the EU is a member, have judged hormones to be safe when used according to good veterinary practice. Over time, these have included the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) of the World Health Organization and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations; the Codex Committee on Residues of Veterinary Drugs in Food and the Codex Alimentarius Commission. Further, two major internal EU initiatives – the Lamming Committee scientific expert group and the 1995 Scientific Conference on Growth Promotion in Meat Production – concluded there was no evidence of health risk from the use of growth hormones. The basic assertion of the US and Canada is that this represents as close to a scientific consensus as one is likely to get.


http://are.berkeley.edu/courses/EEP131/ ... dHobbs.pdf

I also did a quick search on Toxline to see if anything came up related to the hormones in question and found nothing.
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Re: OT: Guns, what should I buy? 

Post#79 » by Kerrsed » Sat Feb 6, 2010 10:38 pm

I love how this thread went from "Guns, what should I buy?" to "Meat, is it bad for you?".

I think we need to compromise and re-title the thread "Meat, what should I buy?"! :lol:
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