Heinsohn's Free Agent Ratings

[Octolor]

Have to say the guy is a sage.

He said the following players are best free agent available:

1. Lebron (thinks he'll stay in Cleveland especially if they win title)
2. Dwayne Wade (more complete player than other free agents available but needs ball all the time to be affective)

On another tier

3, Joe Johnson (said we should go get him but probably can't ( I've actually seen him lobby Celts management to open the checkbook and get him on air.)

What was very insightful was his damnation of the following players:

Bosh (not all around player)
Stoudemaire
Boozer

He wouldn't pay the money for these three players.

It seems pretty basic but maybe that's why he won championships as both a player and coach.

I would love to see the Celts somehow get Johnson, especially with Heinsohn's sealed approval, but it seems very unlikely.

It is also important to note that Heinsohn said (in studio) that Ray Allen was going to have problems with his shot because he is a jump shooter and he's losing his athleticism.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Can't argue with the first 3. But on the other 3, idk. I think Bosh and Amar'e are really damn good. Amar'e is one of those 'hidden agenda' type players. But he can dominate when he wants, that's for sure..him and Rondo on the same team would be UNREAL!...Boozer is just..blahh..so overrated.

I would love getting Jo Jo too..but it won't happen. I'm very curious of where he will end up though.
]
As for the Sugar Ray part, the athleticism should only count on shots off curls. There is no reason to miss wide open spot up jumpers(Eddie House type shots) like he is missing...

[Ben-N1ce]

Bosh is considerably better than Amare now. He pretty much has a good game 90% of the time. I've seen Amare have some real stinkers and alot of average games. Both are average defenders.

[Tricky Ricky]

Tommy also didnt like the KG/Big Al trade and look how that turned out. I agree with him though Id love to get JJ but that seems impossible.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Amare

[ddb]

I actually agree with him 100%.

The thing with Bosh, yeah he's super talented and puts up stats, but what has he ever done in terms of winning? If Tim Duncan played for the Raptors and Chris Bosh played for San Antonio the Raptors would be the 3rd or 4th seed in the east this year and the Spurs would be between 8-10 in the west. If Lebron played for Toronto and Bosh played for Cleveland then Toronto would be the top seed and Cleveland would be 7 or 8. That's how I judge players.

I think Bosh can win a title and be a winner if he plays with a guy like Lebron or Wade. Or finds a perfect "04 Pistons-like" fit that's well balanced.

[Celts17Pride]

Tommy also didnt like the KG/Big Al trade and look how that turned out. I agree with him though Id love to get JJ but that seems impossible.

Tricky Ricky, you know Tommy doesn't like it if you trade any Celtics.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^agreed...but Amare hasn't even been able to do that, with all that talent in Phoenix...plus, he has a bad 'tude

[Tricky Ricky]

Tommy also didnt like the KG/Big Al trade and look how that turned out. I agree with him though Id love to get JJ but that seems impossible.

Tricky Ricky, you know Tommy doesn't like it if you trade any Celtics.

Agreed, I think Tommy wouldve been upset if we traded Al for Bron it was hard not to like Big Al, Gomes etc.

[Tricky Ricky]

^agreed...but Amare hasn't even been able to do that, with all that talent in Phoenix...plus, he has a bad 'tude

Agreed when Nash goes down that team cant get W's, IMO Bosh is equal to him his teamates usually do worse when he comes in the game.

[Collinto]

I respect the opinions on Amare, but don't agree. I think there is a similarity between Amare and Pierce, minus the injuries Amare has sustained. Both had early success and obvious talent. Both excelled on great teams early, but regressed as their teams lost talent. Both had been tabbed as minus defenders. Both had been tabbed as selfish. Both had been tabbed as not able to lead their team.

I hear Amare talk about playing for a winner, and much like Pierce (reportedly), blocked a trade to a team that wasn't going to compete.

I think Amare is a risk, but it is more based on his injury history. It is my belief, that on a winning, veteran roster where he has support (much like Pierce), he falls into a 1b type role and maturely proves the neigh-sayers wrong.

Edit: And I stand by the trade I proposed back at the beginning of the trading season: Allen, Perkins, BBD, #1 for Amare and Richardson. We get more athletic (which makes Rondo more valuable), we get younger (2 guys under 30, extending the window), we get more offensive punch. We take a hit defensively, but I think 2 vets who 'buy-in' to winning the title with D will surprise (again, see Pierce and Allen defensive effort pre/post trade). And I think the plusses, out-weigh the losses on the defensive end.

[Ben-N1ce]

I actually agree with him 100%.

The thing with Bosh, yeah he's super talented and puts up stats, but what has he ever done in terms of winning? If Tim Duncan played for the Raptors and Chris Bosh played for San Antonio the Raptors would be the 3rd or 4th seed in the east this year and the Spurs would be between 8-10 in the west. If Lebron played for Toronto and Bosh played for Cleveland then Toronto would be the top seed and Cleveland would be 7 or 8. That's how I judge players.

I think Bosh can win a title and be a winner if he plays with a guy like Lebron or Wade. Or finds a perfect "04 Pistons-like" fit that's well balanced.

Lebron would make the Raptors the #1 seed and Duncan would have them 3 or 4 Pass the pipe.

[JSABleedsGreen]

I agree with most of you. Amare is that type of player that needs a really good PG to get him the ball. He's not the type of player whom you can hand off the ball to get you a win. You pay elite players with the capability to finish games bigtime money.

You can go to Duncan and expect a win if he has the last posession. You can go to Dirk. You can even possibly go to Bosh or Boozer and expect a better outcome than if you go to Amare.

So I agree with Tommy. I don't agree with Tommy about Bosh but....I do agree with him if his analysis included defense. Both of those players are average defenders, not elite defenders.

JJ would be the best option here. JJ and Rondo and Perk for the next 5 years? Wow.....that would definitely be a yound nuclues that you could build around and add middle to aging stars and get a title or two.

[MyInsatiableOne]

I respect the opinions on Amare, but don't agree. I think there is a similarity between Amare and Pierce, minus the injuries Amare has sustained. Both had early success and obvious talent. Both excelled on great teams early, but regressed as their teams lost talent. Both had been tabbed as minus defenders. Both had been tabbed as selfish. Both had been tabbed as not able to lead their team.

I hear Amare talk about playing for a winner, and much like Pierce (reportedly), blocked a trade to a team that wasn't going to compete.

I think Amare is a risk, but it is more based on his injury history. It is my belief, that on a winning, veteran roster where he has support (much like Pierce), he falls into a 1b type role and maturely proves the neigh-sayers wrong.

Edit: And I stand by the trade I proposed back at the beginning of the trading season: Allen, Perkins, BBD, #1 for Amare and Richardson. We get more athletic (which makes Rondo more valuable), we get younger (2 guys under 30, extending the window), we get more offensive punch. We take a hit defensively, but I think 2 vets who 'buy-in' to winning the title with D will surprise (again, see Pierce and Allen defensive effort pre/post trade). And I think the plusses, out-weigh the losses on the defensive end.

^what do you call Phoenix the last 5 years if not a veteran team with talent and a future HOF PG (Nash?) If he can't do it there, where can he?

[Collinto]

I respect the opinions on Amare, but don't agree. I think there is a similarity between Amare and Pierce, minus the injuries Amare has sustained. Both had early success and obvious talent. Both excelled on great teams early, but regressed as their teams lost talent. Both had been tabbed as minus defenders. Both had been tabbed as selfish. Both had been tabbed as not able to lead their team.

I hear Amare talk about playing for a winner, and much like Pierce (reportedly), blocked a trade to a team that wasn't going to compete.

I think Amare is a risk, but it is more based on his injury history. It is my belief, that on a winning, veteran roster where he has support (much like Pierce), he falls into a 1b type role and maturely proves the neigh-sayers wrong.

Edit: And I stand by the trade I proposed back at the beginning of the trading season: Allen, Perkins, BBD, #1 for Amare and Richardson. We get more athletic (which makes Rondo more valuable), we get younger (2 guys under 30, extending the window), we get more offensive punch. We take a hit defensively, but I think 2 vets who 'buy-in' to winning the title with D will surprise (again, see Pierce and Allen defensive effort pre/post trade). And I think the plusses, out-weigh the losses on the defensive end.

^what do you call Phoenix the last 5 years if not a veteran team with talent and a future HOF PG (Nash?) If he can't do it there, where can he?

How exactly has he 'not done it there'?

He's been NBA 1st or 2nd team every year he wasn't injurred.
He's been to 2 Western Conf. Finals
4 All Star Games
Lead the team in Points and Reb's

Again, I think your sentiment is prevailant, but not correct. Short memories remembering the struggles of PHO as they transition the past couple of seasons. Amare has not wavered much. Again, this is similar to PP, in my opinion, as people remembered him for the Indiana series melt down and the crappy teams, forgetting the season's just preceeding those.

[Banks2Pierce]

I think you guys are underrating Amare's game. He is a beast of epic proportions.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Offensively, yes he is...his D is poor, though, and he's not a great teammate...

[Banks2Pierce]

Offensively, yes he is...his D is poor, though, and he's not a great teammate...

Never heard the "not a great teammate" side of things.

But yea, his D gets a lot of criticism, but he has been on teams that don't seem to care in the least bit about defense. And he is playing against C's a lot, which is not his true position. I'd rather have his defense than Bosh's.

People would regard Amare differently if the Suns had gone on to win one of those years that they were legit contenders, which I feel they were during the Nash MVP era. They came close to knocking off the Spurs.

[MyInsatiableOne]

There were a couple of articles on ESPN.com and SI.com last week talking about how Amare's teammates are pissed at him because he's already mentally checked out and wants to be traded...

[Collinto]

There were a couple of articles on ESPN.com and SI.com last week talking about how Amare's teammates are pissed at him because he's already mentally checked out and wants to be traded...

Links please.