Our playoff rotation and the need for a trade or signing

[Hemingway]

The thing the team owners and management must be looking at now are the playoffs this year. Doc must be contemplating the rotations he will use. When the playoffs come around the 10-12 man rotations teams run with through the season are tightened. The schedule is slower, usually a day or two between games so player are more rested and you can run with your optimal lineups. This is what scares me with our Celtics.

Lets assume everyone is healthy. We have only 7 guys that I feel have the poise and reliability to be out there. They are the starters, Sheed and Danials. Last year we used House and Davis and while they did alright I still don't feel they are part of the optimal line up we will need to beat a team as good as the lakers in a 7 game series. Baby is too immature as a player and too short. Eddie also lacks the size and it makes him ineffective on D against the majority of guards that will see the court in the playoffs. His ball handling to be counted on.

So where does that leave us? We probably want a solid 8 or 9 man rotation and we can always use Eddie and Glen in some situations and series. Luckily the solid players we have outside the starters are 4/5 and a 1/2/3 guys. So we can basically add someone at any position.

For these reasons I think the team is best to simply sign a player that gets cut or trade our expirings that will not be in our playoff rotations anyways.

[Banks2Pierce]

Come on. Davis not a rotation player? Davis almost got us to the ECF's last year as a starter. And didn't House win a few games for us in the playoffs last year and completely blow the roof off of the Garden?

Assuming full health, we have a good rotation. But we can't assume that and that's why I wouldn't mind picking up a ballhandler.

[Papa Irish31]

I think we could steal Raja Bell away from the Warriors, for cheap now that he is supposedly going to be ready to come back around the allstar game

here are the three biggest problems i have with our current bench:

1. Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels cannot coexist in the same backourt, lets just say its not a good idea. and i personally think, as good as tony has been playing lately, Quisy is still a much better player than he will be, and gives us a more consistent and complete, and versitile option off the bench

possible solutions: see top; Raja bell, quisy is a driver, bell is a spot up three point guy, they both play excellent D, only question mark - health

or trading our expiring contracts for a combination of overpaid players with non desired contracts such as Hinrich, Prince, who knows maybe even Leandro Barbosa

2. Eddie House - he cant handle the ball or guard his position, or maybe even any position, on offense he is strictly a spot up shooter that has trouble getting his shot off when he is not wide open, and has an especially difficult time when teams put a bigger defender on him

solution - trade for a a guy that can legitimately play the point guard (hinrich, robinson, etc.) or someone who can handle the ball and fit into a combo guard role (barbosa, charlie bell, hinrich to name a few)

3. Big baby is not Leon Powe - my favorite thing about Leon Powe was that when you put him out on the court, you knew exactly what you were getting, whether he played 40 minutes or 4 minutes, there was no noticeable change in his game; a rare attribute for a player to carry. The same cannot be said for big baby, he is a different player alltogether when he starts and plays big minutes than when doc burries him on the bench or rotates him in, its not any knock on baby, because im pretty sure this would be true of 98% of guys in the league, just not leon powe

and big baby, is too short, i just dont think he can be effective enough this year to justify keeping him if a trade came along that would improve the team


its amazing how one player could change the whole dynamic of the bench, our bench will see a tremendous improvement in adding daniels back, but i still think we need to make another move, whatever it may be, to become a championship bench, and theres no doubt in my mind whether id be willing to part with TA, Eddie, or Glen to get it done

[Banks2Pierce]

Big baby won a job here over Powe because he was the better player. People tend to forget that, but Davis was more reliable on both sides. People hate Davis for some reason around here and it's been like that since his rookie year. I could see if people turned on him after the fight, but people turned on him long before that. He's a rotation player on 99% of teams in this league.

[SichtingLives]

1. Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels cannot coexist in the same backourt

Unsubstantiated. I'd withhold judgement on that one.

2. Eddie House - he cant handle the ball or guard his position, or maybe even any position, on offense he is strictly a spot up shooter that has trouble getting his shot off when he is not wide open, and has an especially difficult time when teams put a bigger defender on him

I have to point this out: Eddie actually does a good job protecting the ball. Check out his turnover rate this year and over his entire career. Pretty good for a guy who is a supposed liability with the ball. Yes, he's slow so it doesn't look too pretty, but the whole thing started over 1 or 2 plays where he got stripped by Lindsey Hunter (who was, at the time, still a defensive specialist) vs. Detroit 3 years ago. The reputation stuck with him that he can't be trusted with the ball after that happened. The whole 'Eddie can't handle the ball' thing is very overblown.

I agree with everything else you said about him.

3. Big baby is not Leon Powe - my favorite thing about Leon Powe was that when you put him out on the court, you knew exactly what you were getting, whether he played 40 minutes or 4 minutes, there was no noticeable change in his game; a rare attribute for a player to carry.

Leon was the man for this team, but he went through like a 2 month slump last year where he wasn't very effective at all, and his game had some limitations as well. I still wish he was on this team but Glen Davis showed plenty of consistency last spring when it counted. Whether you like him or hate him, you still have to give him time to round back into shape He's months behind the rest of these guys, and unlike them he actually needs the extra cardio. Seriously.

its amazing how one player could change the whole dynamic of the bench, our bench will see a tremendous improvement in adding daniels back, but i still think we need to make another move, whatever it may be, to become a championship bench, and theres no doubt in my mind whether id be willing to part with TA, Eddie, or Glen to get it done

This part I agree with. But it will be interesting to see how the current bench dynamics change with Marquis back in the rotation.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Come on. Davis not a rotation player? Davis almost got us to the ECF's last year as a starter. And didn't House win a few games for us in the playoffs last year and completely blow the roof off of the Garden?

Assuming full health, we have a good rotation. But we can't assume that and that's why I wouldn't mind picking up a ballhandler.

House played big minutes against the Lakers in the finals too. In game 4 he was key to our win. Doc would run a line up of Eddie, Ray, P, Posey and KG every once in a while...and Eddie was big for us in some of those games. Big Baby was maybe our 3rd best player during last years playoffs, hitting buzzer beaters, picking up double doubles, shooting really well. Short term memory is a bitch. I'm all for making a trade, and getting some more reliable people to lean on during the playoffs. But to say we only have 7 players who are 'playoff rotation', is not right. We have a solid 10 IMO. Starting 5 + Sheed, Quisy, TA, House and Davis.

[Captain_Caveman]

"Let's assume we are healthy."

IMO, let's not... with a team this old, beat-up and thin, that's not likely to happen.

Also, look at what our playoff draw is *likely* to be.

A relatively tough 1st round matchup against a 5th or 6th seed, followed by having to beat 2 out of 3 among the Cavs, Magic and Hawks, followed by the Lakers.

Say goodnight. We need a miracle.

[BRUNiNHO91]

^^ If you don't want to 'assume we are healthy', then don't assume what other teams we will face in the playoffs either. Lakers still have to beat Denver, who have been giving them a very hard time this year. We all witnessed what happened to the Cavs last year, Magic are not that tough of an opponent IMO...it's not like anybody has a cakewalk to the finals here. Saying we need a miracle is forcing it a little too much.

[Captain_Caveman]

BRUNiNHO91, here's where you get me wrong.

You aren't arguing against me, you are arguing against the most likely version of reality over the next 5 months.

Don't shoot the messenger. I want them to win as much as you, and probably more.

[BRUNiNHO91]

BRUNiNHO91, here's where you get me wrong.

You aren't arguing against me, you are arguing against the most likely version of reality over the next 5 months.

Don't shoot the messenger. I want them to win as much as you, and probably more.

I would rather just wait and see. Alot could happen in the next 5 months, no need to go around mentioning miracles just yet. That's all.


Hilarious..

[Jajwanda]

Let's just say that if the Celtics pull off some of those rumored Ray Allen deals they're right back in the game. How are Pierce/Garnett doing as far as health?

One thing most seem to glance over is that Cleveland will have a difficulty scoring against Boston in the playoffs. If the Hinrich/Salmons deal is pulled off by Boston I would put money on Boston in that series.

PG- Celtics are more than capable of making Mo Williams look mediocre. Rondo will run circles around him.
SG- Let's say Hinrich vs. West. I'd say that's a win for Hinrich overall although both are similar. Daniels and Salmons are excellent depth, superior to Moon and Parker.
SF- Sure the Cavaliers have this match-up but there's nothing better than having Pierce tired out LeBron as much as possible on the other end. Pierce always seems to play well against LeBron. Salmons off the bench is a key as well since he gives another option for at least trying to slow LeBron.
PF- A healthy Garnett if you can get that will be able to anchor effectively with the offensively inept Varejao completely clueless on offense against Garnett. Garnett will be able to effectively double team onto Shaq.
C- You have the best possible one-on-one defender for Shaq in the league. He has a solid defender in Wallace behind him who will bring defensive value to be sure and will be a pain in the ass if his 3s start falling. Either way a deep big man rotation capable of matching Cleveland.

Your piece of **** **** garbage team yes can take Cleveland, especially with a trade. So no no miracles are necessary. I just think Cleveland is too stupid to realize how they're roster is flawed.

[Hemingway]

House and Davis are fine but when you have them as your 8 and 9 guys off the bench you are depending on them and they will let you down.

Also when Baby does well, really, it is well for him. Hes never putting up huge numbers, taking over a game or anything. Hes just hustling an hitting his shot. Hes not an all round player and not someone I really want in there when the season is on the line.

If the teach can simply trade expirings for a Gomes or Hinrich or sign this years cassell or brown we will be ok.

[captain green]

I have to point this out: Eddie actually does a good job protecting the ball. Check out his turnover rate this year and over his entire career. Pretty good for a guy who is a supposed liability with the ball. Yes, he's slow so it doesn't look too pretty, but the whole thing started over 1 or 2 plays where he got stripped by Lindsey Hunter (who was, at the time, still a defensive specialist) vs. Detroit 3 years ago. The reputation stuck with him that he can't be trusted with the ball after that happened. The whole 'Eddie can't handle the ball' thing is very overblown.

I 100% concur on this.

Big baby won a job here over Powe because he was the better player. People tend to forget that, but Davis was more reliable on both sides. People hate Davis for some reason around here and it's been like that since his rookie year. I could see if people turned on him after the fight, but people turned on him long before that. He's a rotation player on 99% of teams in this league.

No powe was always a better player than glenn, powe was our guy then injury forced our hand.



rondo/house
allen/allen
pierce/daniels
kg/bbd
perk/wallace

wiliams and scal thats our 12 man roster right now. (imho not bad)

weakness is the pg and sf but I can live with pg it seems that's what we've been doing. We would have to trade t. allen or bbd to get better at one position. I would more or less likely trade bbd because of williams.

[SichtingLives]

I think it's close to unanimous that we could use another impact player (or two) on the bench besides Quisy coming back. That may happen, but for the most part this is the team we're running with. That means it's very possible that some or all of Eddie, TA or Glen will still be here after the deadline. They all contribute to this team when they play well. When they don't, not so much......but isn't that how the majority of bench players are anyway?

If there's one thing Doc is usually good for, it's not giving minutes to "maybe's" in the playoffs. Unless it's Sam Cassell.

[The Alchemist]

I think it's pretty obvious we are in desperate need of a bench player who can create his own shot. The whole bench offense consists of spot up shooters, Marquis posting up a smaller man if he has a good matchup and Tony Allen bowling over people giving every fan in the stands a heart attack.

[Hemingway]

I think it's pretty obvious we are in desperate need of a bench player who can create his own shot. The whole bench offense consists of spot up shooters, Marquis posting up a smaller man if he has a good matchup and Tony Allen bowling over people giving every fan in the stands a heart attack.

I agree. Perhaps if we get someone who was once a star and is used to driving and creating his own shot we will be much better off. Part of me hates to keep adding ring chasers because it means we are not adding someone with the potential to help us down the line but you have to play for the season you are in first and foremost when you are a great team.

A back up point might be what the doctor ordered. The only thing I hate is that if we get another Marbs or Sam it is them that will be in in the final seconds because of Rondo's FT liability. I know it is probably the smartest thing but part of me wants Doc to throw Rondo in the fire and hope he comes out stronger. I for one am happy when Rondo takes a big shot because down the road those shots are going to give him the confidence to be real clutch.

[Slartibartfast]

Big baby won a job here over Powe because he was the better player. People tend to forget that, but Davis was more reliable on both sides. People hate Davis for some reason around here and it's been like that since his rookie year. I could see if people turned on him after the fight, but people turned on him long before that. He's a rotation player on 99% of teams in this league.

If Powe hadn't been injured, I'm pretty sure he would have won a spot on this year's roster over Baby. Baby's jumper won him a starting spot next to Perk when KG went down, and his ability to body up 5s like no one else but Perk assured him a permanent spot in the rotation, but Powe was obviously the more valuable player. He could rebound, score with greater volume and efficiency (when Perk wasn't sharing the floor with him) and defend the 4 spot much better, in addition to getting out on the break and finishing.

Baby's positives (decent post game, mediocre jumper, ball-friendly big, ability to guard 5s) are, with the exception of offensive rebounding, all duplicated, and in many cases exceeded by his new frontcourt mate, Sheed, while they share many of the same negatives (inefficient scoring, slowness, a tendency to chuck).

If we could replace Baby with someone who could diversify our bench production (more quickness, drives, defensive boards, steals, blocks), I'd do it.

[klemen4]

I really like our bench...but we lack a real offensive threat...the real 6th man. On the other hand Im ok with this lineup:

DANIELS
HOUSE
?
DAVIS
WALLACE

We lack sf who has height, good defender and that he can hit 3pt. Im ok with Daniels at pg, because also on defense they are ok with house guarding pg and Daniels sg.

If nothing else, no Ray trade I hope at least we get that sf with outside shot...man Raya Bell would be great.

[BG7]

I really like our bench...but we lack a real offensive threat...the real 6th man. On the other hand Im ok with this lineup:

DANIELS
HOUSE
?
DAVIS
WALLACE

We lack sf who has height, good defender and that he can hit 3pt. Im ok with Daniels at pg, because also on defense they are ok with house guarding pg and Daniels sg.

If nothing else, no Ray trade I hope at least we get that sf with outside shot...man Raya Bell would be great.

We'll give you Salmons for T. Allen and Scal/Shelden

[klemen4]

Salmons, Nocioni...one of guys in 6 mio range would be ok....still if we could get Raya Bell in a trade or if being cut that would be the best option