SAC/PHX Game thread.

[Wolfay]

I just simply disagree. He's been crap for awhile now, and I can't fathom how anyone can defend him (especially THIS season) without having some kind of bias. Y'all said he would get better, but he got worse! A LOT worse!

[pillwenney]

I just simply disagree. He's been crap for awhile now, and I can't fathom how anyone can defend him (especially THIS season) without having some kind of bias. Y'all said he would get better, but he got worse! A LOT worse!

I'm not talking about this season. I'm arguing against the point that he has been becoming a worse shooter throughout his career--as if this season is just another step down. It's not. It's the only step down he has taken so far in terms of actually shooting the ball.

[Wolfay]

I just simply disagree. He's been crap for awhile now, and I can't fathom how anyone can defend him (especially THIS season) without having some kind of bias. Y'all said he would get better, but he got worse! A LOT worse!

I'm not talking about this season. I'm arguing against the point that he has been becoming a worse shooter throughout his career--as if this season is just another step down. It's not. It's the only step down he has taken so far in terms of actually shooting the ball.

Again, I just disagree. To me, he looks like he's slowly unlearning the game of basketball. He was supposed to give us boost, but the exact opposite has happened. My patience is wearing very thin.

[pillwenney]

Again, I just disagree. To me, he looks like he's slowly unlearning the game of basketball. He was supposed to give us boost, but the exact opposite has happened. My patience is wearing very thin.

And again, I'm not talking about this season.

[Wolfay]

Again, I just disagree. To me, he looks like he's slowly unlearning the game of basketball. He was supposed to give us boost, but the exact opposite has happened. My patience is wearing very thin.

And again, I'm not talking about this season.

I don't care what season it was. This has been happening the past few seasons. You're missing the point.

[pillwenney]

Again, I just disagree. To me, he looks like he's slowly unlearning the game of basketball. He was supposed to give us boost, but the exact opposite has happened. My patience is wearing very thin.

And again, I'm not talking about this season.

I don't care what season it was. This has been happening the past few seasons. You're missing the point.

That's precisely what I'm arguing against. How has this been happening for the last few seasons? And how can you argue that Kevin wasn't getting worse shots in 07-08 than he was in 06-07 and before that? How can you possibly argue that? He was the one creating the offense, and he wasn't before that. I didn't think you even disagreed on this aspect.

I mean seriously, acting like this season is part of a downward slope on Kevin's jumper is downright dishonest. It really is. His 3P% only went up in the years, and his FT% nearly did the same thing. His FG% clearly went down because of increased responsibilities. It's not like that's anything new. The same thing will happen with any player in the league who's not a superstar.

[Wolfay]

How do you explain this season? On second thought, don't. I'm sick of hearing excuse after excuse for Martin's piss-poor play.

[RekeHavoc]

How do you explain this season? On second thought, don't. I'm sick of hearing excuse after excuse for Martin's piss-poor play.

cosigned. 14-17 without him, 3-13 with him(something like that anyway).

[pillwenney]

How do you explain this season? On second thought, don't. I'm sick of hearing excuse after excuse for Martin's piss-poor play.

I'm not trying to explain this season! This is what I've been saying for a page now! I agree that he has sucked for the most part this season. I'm only arguing that it's not part of a downward trend in his shooting that has been going on for years. That's all I'm arguing.

[Wolfay]

How do you explain this season? On second thought, don't. I'm sick of hearing excuse after excuse for Martin's piss-poor play.

I'm not trying to explain this season! This is what I've been saying for a page now! I agree that he has sucked for the most part this season. I'm only arguing that it's not part of a downward trend in his shooting that has been going on for years. That's all I'm arguing.

And I've said for a whole page that I've disagreed. Martin looks like he's regressing as a player the past few seasons. That's what happens when you turn into a ball-dominant player but don't have the skills to do it. I expected that and you didn't, but that's okay.

[pillwenney]

And I've said for a whole page that I've disagreed. Martin looks like he's regressing as a player the past few seasons. That's what happens when you turn into a ball-dominant player but don't have the skills to do it. I expected that and you didn't, but that's okay.

Well I guess I could turn to the age-old question of "who was he supposed to play off of last year?" but that would seem silly at this point, since that's kind of what I always do, and I never really get an answer.

The problem is that we've handed him responsibilities--not that he has taken them without asking. But again, we had no choice last year. I just want to hear what the alternatives for the team were. That's what I guess this boils down to.

The main thing I was arguing against was the idea that his shot has been progressively getting worse. There's simply not a shred of evidence for that. FG% indicates the type of shots a player is getting about 10 times more than their actual shooting ability. The fact of the matter is that Kevin's 3P% has gone up over the years despite the fact that he's been shooting harder 3's. So this idea that his shooting has declined progressively over time is completely unfounded.