Marvin Williams

Vindicater · Post #1 » by **Vindicater** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 2:58 am

Just thought I would bring this name up again as some of us were very interested in him earlier on this year (and some like myself are still interested)

I know alot of us want Rudy Gay in the offseason but I think Marvin Williams is also a viable option still. His numbers have been down this season due to Jamal Crawfords emergance as a scorer off the bench, yet Marvin is still the starting small forward on an elite Hawks team who plays tough defense and can knock down the threeball with the best of them.

I know hes off the table now to ign in fre agency as he was extended but maybe he could be pried from the hawks for somthing alittle cheaper if we used our salary cap space?

Any thoughts?

Krapinsky · Post #2 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:10 am

I'm not so sure he's much of an upgrade over Gomes.

Post #3 » by **Calinks** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 5:57 am

Not this crap again!

cpfsf · Post #4 » by **cpfsf** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 6:07 am

Still don't understand the obsession for Marvin

shangrila · Post #5 » by **shangrila** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 7:58 am

If the team ends up with Turner it makes a little sense and while he's no star he could be one of those young veterans this team always seems to end up with.

Post #6 » by **Klomp** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:56 am

Krapinsky wrote:I'm not so sure he's much of an upgrade over Gomes.

Ryan Gomes vs. Marvin Williams

Age: Gomes - 28.5; Williams - 24.8
MPG: Gomes - 27.8; Williams - 29.5
PPG: Gomes - 10.9; Williams - 10.2
RPG: Gomes - 4.5; Williams - 5.1
APG: Gomes - 1.5; Williams - 1.0
FG%: Gomes - 45.0; Williams - 44.2
FT%: Gomes - 81.7; Williams - 82.0
3FG%: Gomes - 40.6; Williams - 34.4

Salaries (This season included)
Gomes - $3,867,500 / $4,235,000 / $4,602,500 / $4,970,000
Williams - $7,500,000 / $6,712,500 / $7,500,000 / $8,287,500 / $7,500,000

southern wolf · Post #7 » by **southern wolf** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 10:34 am

I've always thought of him as more of a power forward, but I haven't seen a lot of him play, and you don't hear much about him considering he was a top 3 pick. The comparison to Gomes says it all really.

Vindicater · Post #8 » by **Vindicater** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 12:31 pm

Apart from the fact Gomes is nowhere near the player Marvin is. Nor the fact that Gomes would not start at small forwar for the Atlanta Hawks. Nor that Marvin Williams actually plays man defense.

If you guys seriouslly think Gomes and Marvin Williams are close as player then I dont know what to think...

freakafied · Post #9 » by **freakafied** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 2:58 pm

Vindicater wrote:Apart from the fact Gomes is nowhere near the player Marvin is. Nor the fact that Gomes would not start at small forwar for the Atlanta Hawks. Nor that Marvin Williams actually plays man defense.

If you guys seriouslly think Gomes and Marvin Williams are close as player then I dont know what to think...

How can you ignore the numbers Gomes is better than Williams

Post #10 » by **C.lupus** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:07 pm

In Williams' defense, he's not getting any offense run through him. I'd really like to see what he would look like in the triangle. That said, I'm no longer interested in him for the Wolves at $7 million +.

Post #11 » by **Klomp** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:04 pm

C.lupus wrote:In Williams' defense, he's not getting any offense run through him. I'd really like to see what he would look like in the triangle. That said, I'm no longer interested in him for the Wolves at $7 million +.

1. Neither is Gomes
2. The triangle is predicated on ball movement, not one player getting the offense run through him

Krapinsky · Post #12 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:26 pm

Vindicater wrote:Apart from the fact Gomes is nowhere near the player Marvin is. Nor the fact that Gomes would not start at small forwar for the Atlanta Hawks. Nor that Marvin Williams actually plays man defense.

If you guys seriouslly think Gomes and Marvin Williams are close as player then I dont know what to think...

IMarvin is a little better, but night by much right now.

think Gomes could start for them.. All they ask out of Williams is that he hits spot up jump shots really. Gomes can do that, but at a higher % actually. Defensively Marvin is better because he can probably go against 3's and 4's while Gomes struggles against most 4's. There opponent PER against SF's are relatively close though, and that's with Williams having much better defensive help in the paint.

Post #13 » by **C.lupus** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:58 pm

Klomp wrote:
C.lupus wrote:In Williams' defense, he's not getting any offense run through him. I'd really like to see what he would look like in the triangle. That said, I'm no longer interested in him for the Wolves at $7 million +.

1. Neither is Gomes
2. The triangle is predicated on ball movement, not one player getting the offense run through him

Well, true. I guess what I was trying to say is that I'd like to see what Marvin could do in a more structured offense. He certainly hasn't shown more than Gomes so far but he is still young and, in theory, has a higher ceiling than Gomes (who is at his ceiling right now). I still wouldn't pay him $8m to see if he can live up to his potential, though.

john2jer · Post #14 » by **john2jer** » Tue Feb 9, 2010 5:23 pm

Marvin Williams is about the 5th or 6th option for the Hawks, a playoff team, and one of the best in the East. Gomes is like the 4th or 5th option on the 2nd worst team in the league. I think that shows a huge difference in their similar stats.

M-Will is also 4 years younger. Put him on the Wolves and he's probably our 2nd or 3rd option and putting up much better numbers.

Now having said that, and move to get M-Will would have to happen after we make any other big splash because I wouldn't want it to hinder us getting a legit 1st or 2nd option on this team.

Vindicater · Post #15 » by **Vindicater** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:41 am

john2jer wrote:Marvin Williams is about the 5th or 6th option for the Hawks, a playoff team, and one of the best in the East. Gomes is like the 4th or 5th option on the 2nd worst team in the league. I think that shows a huge difference in their similar stats.

M-Will is also 4 years younger. Put him on the Wolves and he's probably our 2nd or 3rd option and putting up much better numbers.

Now having said that, and move to get M-Will would have to happen after we make any other big splash because I wouldn't want it to hinder us getting a legit 1st or 2nd option on this team.

Wow... look, somone realises you cant just compare statistics between players who play for teams with such huge talents gaps...

As for Krapinsky, you need to take the Timberwolves goggles off mate, There is no way in HELL Gomes starts for the Hawks.

Krapinsky · Post #16 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:45 am

Vindicater wrote:
john2jer wrote:Marvin Williams is about the 5th or 6th option for the Hawks, a playoff team, and one of the best in the East. Gomes is like the 4th or 5th option on the 2nd worst team in the league. I think that shows a huge difference in their similar stats.

M-Will is also 4 years younger. Put him on the Wolves and he's probably our 2nd or 3rd option and putting up much better numbers.

Now having said that, and move to get M-Will would have to happen after we make any other big splash because I wouldn't want it to hinder us getting a legit 1st or 2nd option on this team.

Wow... look, somone realises you cant just compare statistics between players who play for teams with such huge talents gaps...

As for Krapinsky, you need to take the Timberwolves goggles off mate, There is no way in HELL Gomes starts for the Hawks.

Who else would they start at SF?

shangrila · Post #17 » by **shangrila** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:46 am

Klomp wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:Williams - $7,500,000 / $6,712,500 / $7,500,000 / $8,287,500 / $7,500,000

Does anyone else find this 7.5 million leap year contract weird?

the_bruce · Post #18 » by **the_bruce** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:26 am

Is he an upgrade sure. But the benefit is marginal at best.

Neither player will ever be a top 5 player at the 3 or 4 so who cares. Marvin is more of a 4 anyway.

Vindicater · Post #19 » by **Vindicater** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:40 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
Vindicater wrote:
john2jer wrote:Marvin Williams is about the 5th or 6th option for the Hawks, a playoff team, and one of the best in the East. Gomes is like the 4th or 5th option on the 2nd worst team in the league. I think that shows a huge difference in their similar stats.

M-Will is also 4 years younger. Put him on the Wolves and he's probably our 2nd or 3rd option and putting up much better numbers.

Now having said that, and move to get M-Will would have to happen after we make any other big splash because I wouldn't want it to hinder us getting a legit 1st or 2nd option on this team.

Wow... look, somone realises you cant just compare statistics between players who play for teams with such huge talents gaps...

As for Krapinsky, you need to take the Timberwolves goggles off mate, There is no way in HELL Gomes starts for the Hawks.

Who else would they start at SF?

IF you switched Marvin for Gomes the Hawks would start Maurice Evans at small forward, then they would bring Jamal Crawford off the bench and go small with Bibby/Crawford/Johnson.

Gomes would average around 20 minutes a game for the Hawks in this situation, mostly backing up Josh Smith at the power forward spot with some SF minutes thrown in.

john2jer · Post #20 » by **john2jer** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:16 pm

shangrila wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:Williams - $7,500,000 / $6,712,500 / $7,500,000 / $8,287,500 / $7,500,000

Does anyone else find this 7.5 million leap year contract weird?

It averages out to $7.5mil per all the way through, and assuming the re-sign Joe Johnson, it's safe to say they won't have any cap space, but maybe it's in case they don't re-sign Joe, that way they'll have 800k more in wiggle room? Yeah, it's weird.

I agree with Vindicater on Gomes' minutes for the Hawks and that either Johnson or Evans starts at SF, with either Crawford or Johnson at SG.