The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here..

[alphad0gz]

Partisan much? Comparing a handful of words to using a teleprompter to make a point. Is that your best? Because that is a sad, sad comparison regardless of what one thinks of Palin. People would do well to focus on the meat and potatoes of what ANY politician says AND does rather than the superficial crap. These are very serious times and we are at a crucial crossroads in our history.

Any person would be wise to understand that most political supporters treat politics like sports. They support their team no matter what. The right ground is the middle ground, taking ideas from both parties and blending them. Keep waving your arms and criticizing the other parties and their supporters. Be the perfect victims of "political misdirection". You make it easy for them to back the van up to your back door and take all your "valuables" right in front of your eyes. Damn republicans. Damn Democrats. Damn Commies.

[richardhutnik]

alpha, and there is an issue I have with people taking it as a "sport". The difference between sports and politics is that sports is entertainment. The political side impacts everyone in a nation to some extent. I have to live under the outcomes of the politics. I don't live under the outcome of sports, unless I choose to be a sports fan. Have bad policy and I end up homeless, lose my car and put myself in a place where I am not able to get a job. It also is the difference between America having a future and possibly not. This is particularly true if people aren't going to work outside Washington to address the issues of the day.

I am not sure we can get any political blending here. The GOP seems dead set against reforming the health care system. The Democrats gave in a lot, and dropped a lot, but it still isn't enough. Even talk about having non-profits under government guidelines was opposed also.

In regards to the hypocrisy thing (Horthorne), the only OTHER use I see for the charge of such, is to show the other side is bankrupt of values. In the case of Palin, to end up fragging Obama for the teleprompter while defending Palin for hand notes, is absurd. Just say you like Palin and be done with it. I do find it head shaking that you have conservatives, who normally have a set of values they stick with, bringing up the hypocrisy card.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

In other news, someone actually put up a "Miss Me Yet?" sign involving the last president:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15 ... o=18068567

Sorry, I have to say that I don't. People may think of Obama as Isiah. But I happen to think of the last administration as Layden (Scott, not Osama bin).

- Rich

[HarthorneWingo]

Partisan much? Comparing a handful of words to using a teleprompter to make a point. Is that your best? Because that is a sad, sad comparison regardless of what one thinks of Palin. People would do well to focus on the meat and potatoes of what ANY politician says AND does rather than the superficial crap. These are very serious times and we are at a crucial crossroads in our history.

Any person would be wise to understand that most political supporters treat politics like sports. They support their team no matter what. The right ground is the middle ground, taking ideas from both parties and blending them. Keep waving your arms and criticizing the other parties and their supporters. Be the perfect victims of "political misdirection". You make it easy for them to back the van up to your back door and take all your "valuables" right in front of your eyes. Damn republicans. Damn Democrats. Damn Commies.

I'm partisan? No, I'm not. I'm a realistic progressive. I understand that compromise must occur to get anything accomplished. Are republicans will to compromise? Of course not. They're a joke. They will not agree to anything. That's not obvious to you yet?

Yes, but you are obviously a person who thinks through and analyzes, or at least attempts to, what is being said or done. Unfortunately, that's not the majority of the country. There are a lot of stupid people out there that buy into the "Commies" "Socialists" type of attacks. Like the ones that complain about government takeovers of the health care system, while at the same time threatening that the government better not mess with their Medicare/Medicaid benefits.

One of my dearest, best friends from high school is a Sean Insanity, Bill O'Reilly, Fox News loving republican. Right now, he gets 70% of his highest salary from the NYPD as a "service connected disability pension" (back injury) that his union fought for on his behalf. Now, he has five kids, going through a messy divorce and employment/money-making issues. So, my buddy is not waiting for Social Security to rule on his disability application. But when I talk to him, it's all about big government, Obama is a socialist, yada, yada, yada. (One has to admire at how well conservative message indoctrination works.)

Moreover, repug or "conservative" ideology these days transcends the "teleprompter - crib notes" argument into all areas of the conservative message on all issues, including the most important of the day. The republican MO is to "create their own reality" consistent with their agenda .... and while the fems are busy (or not) trying to disprove the lie, the repugs are on to the next lie ... and on and on we go.

EDIT: Btw, you make the statement that "[t]he right ground is the middle ground, taking ideas from both parties and blending them." In the abstract, that's true. We are a country in the middle. But the right, is constantly trying to move "the middle" further and further to the right. Many of Obama's proposals are "centrist." Yet, he is categorized as "a socialist" and someone is not even American (see, "Birthers"). You cannot bargain with these republicans. They will never agree to ANYTHING.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-rosen ... 36772.html

The Retreat from Empiricism and Ron Suskind's Intellectual Scoop

Posted: December 20, 2006 09:07 AM
By: Jay Rosen

* * *

"In the summer of 2002, after I (author Ron Suskind) had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush," Suskind wrote, introducing his characters. "He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency."

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

That passage caused a sensation when it was published, and the sensation introduced a new term, the reality-based community, into political talk. Two things happened right away. Many on the left adopted the term. "Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community," their blogs said. The right then jeered at the left's self-description. (They're reality-based? Yeah, right.)

[HarthorneWingo]

... and they're holding up many of Obama's appointments in an attempt to hold up the administration for "pet" home state projects.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02098.html

Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama holding up Obama nominees for home-state pork
By Scott Wilson and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, February 6, 2010

The Obama administration received a rare political gift Friday that brought together a pair of issues the president is promising this election year to do something about -- pork and partisanship.

Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) announced that he would block administration nominees from Senate votes in an attempt to secure funding for two defense-related projects for his state. The use of the holding tool is often wielded anonymously. But Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) complained publicly about Shelby's effort to win tens of millions of dollars in federal money by delaying dozens of nominees from taking up government positions, including some in national security agencies.

In his State of the Union address, Obama identified Washington's partisan dysfunction as a key concern of economically distressed voters, and he has raised the issue at nearly every turn in recent days, although Obama's own party has used Senate delay tactics to hold up GOP nominees. The president himself signed a $447 billion omnibus spending bill in December that included more than 5,000 of the kind of earmarks that Shelby is seeking.

* * *

[HarthorneWingo]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good lie:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/1 ... 56259.html

or

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

Newt Gingrich WRONG: Says British Shoe Bomber 'Richard Reid Was An American Citizen' (VIDEO)

First Posted: 02-10-10 02:57 AM | Updated: 02-10-10 07:39 PM


***UPDATED***

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich appeared on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart on Tuesday, leveling harsh criticism against the Obama administration.

After Gingrich assailed the administration for reading Miranda Rights to Detroit undie bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, Stewart drew a comparison to something that happened under George W. Bush.

"Didn't they do the same with Richard Reid, who was the shoe bomber?" he asked the Republican icon.

"Richard Reid was an American citizen," insisted Gingrich.

Reid is actually a British citizen of Jamaican descent.

Stewart started to raise the Miranda Rights issue again, but Gingrich pushed the conversation along.
Story continues below

Later, when Gingrich acknowledged that part of his job is to reach out to the emotions of the American people, Stewart shot back, "I think that's wise. And don't let reality get in the way."

At the end of the show, Stewart realized that Gingrich had falsely claimed the shoe bomber was an American citizen and noted that to his audience.

The relevant portion of the interview begins at the 2:15 mark.

[richardhutnik]

I remember reading either here, or in another political forum, how that we have human trafficking in sex trade because prostitution is illegal.

I have a question regarding this. If it is so, then why is Amsterdam, where prostitution is legal, a major place where human trafficking is involved?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Wallen# ... rafficking
Netherlands is listed by the UNDOC as a primary country of destination for victims of human trafficking, [4] and city authorities are very worried about the current situation from Amsterdam: "We’ve realized this is no longer about small-scale entrepreneurs, but that big crime organizations are involved here in trafficking women, drugs, killings and other criminal activities," said Job Cohen, the mayor of Amsterdam.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking
Human trafficking is the practice of humans being tricked, lured, coerced or otherwise removed from their home or country, and then forced to work with no or low payment or on terms which are highly exploitative. The practice is considered to be trade or commerce of people, which has many features of slavery, and which is illegal in most countries. The victims of human trafficking can be used in a variety of situations, including prostitution, forced labor (including bonded labor or debt bondage) and other forms of involuntary servitude. The sale of babies and children for adoption or other purposes is also considered to be trafficking in those children.[1]

And more:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig& ... aqi=g1&oq=

Whomever argued this before, do they care to speak up here and defend their position? I was told making something legal gets rid of all the problems associated with it.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

I found this article via a newsstand copy of Newsweek. Why layoffs are bad for business:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233131

What can one say about business and markets when you get industry after industry following each other off a cliff, and totally undermining their long-term profitability and also the strength of the economy with their short-sightedness?

As the article touched on, you totally undermine moral when you treat workers as disposable. I believe workers won't share ways to improve a company they are at, if they aren't invested personally in the company.

- Rich

[orangeblobman]

Politics is tough. It's tough because between truth and lies, truth is finite and cannot be expanded or tweaked. Lies, they're infinite. You can lie every which way, left, right, up, down, up-down, etc.,. And people don't want the truth, it's tougher to swallow. So lies it is. It's always a losing game for the brave man. This is why it's futile to complain about lying politicians, it's why they all have to lie by default. So it becomes a fun show to keep up on, like sports or poker, and thus should not be taken too seriously but with a touch of humor; which is one reason that shows like the Daily Show are so fun to watch! And I enjoy the Daily Show.

[richardhutnik]

My wish is that things were actually done. I am seeing far too much talk, and not enough people doing anything that would make a difference. An example of this is the fall out of Alex Jones stuff. I know someone who watched "The Obama Deception" and went off telling everyone to see it. He believed we needed to be prepared to "dodge bullets". Well, I am curious how the heck anyone alone will accomplish anything by just watching Alex Jones stuff and telling others? All I can see is a possible riot breaking out, so you get labeled a "terrorist".

I will say, unless people are willing to work together to do things and solve problems behind the scenes, you won't get anywhere. When you get situations where everyone is left to fend for themselves without help, then we will be lost.

Anyhow, just my take here.

- Rich

[orangeblobman]

rock and roll

[richardhutnik]

Evan Bayh isn't going to run for reelection in the Senate:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and- ... 2725.story

He express his disgust at what congress has failed to do regarding the deficit and reducing unemployment. And guess who chimes in? Well, it is good old head of the GOP, Michael Steele, who says:
"Sen. Evan Bayh and moderate Democrats across the country are running for the hills because they sold out their constituents and don't want to face them at the ballot box," said RNC Chairman Michael S. Steele. "Americans are making it clear that they are tired of the Democrats' binge-spending agenda, are done being ignored and are going to do something about it in November."


Thank you Mr. Steele for going way partisan here. And really, "binge-spending agenda"? Apparently Mr. Steele you have forgotten what the GOP has done.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

Nice to see the GOP has own mascot who can constantly play the victim card in Sarah Palin:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/1 ... 62522.html

So, what is the difference between a pitbull, a hockey mom and Sarah Palin? Besides lipstick, Palin's mascara runs whenever someone makes a joke pointed at her.

The Family Guy skit shows a teenage girl with Down's Syndrome getting around and on a date with Chris. She says her father is an accountant and her mom is a former governor of Alaska. The teenage girl is very bossy.

- Rich

[HarthorneWingo]

American terrorist with beef against the IRS flies his plane into a building in Austin, Texas after setting his own house on fire. Where do I begin?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... .Tbs&pos=9

Austin Pilot’s Note Says Dispute With IRS Began in Early 1980s

By Ryan J. Donmoyer

Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Joseph Stack, the software engineer police say flew a small plane into an Austin, Texas, building housing offices of the Internal Revenue Service, may have been in conflict with the U.S. agency for almost 30 years.

Authorities said a suicide note posted on a Web site and signed “Joe Stack (1956-2010)” may have been posted by the 53- year-old suspected of deliberately crashing the plane today. The crash injured at least 13 people, with one federal employee reported missing.

The writer said he lost “$40,000 and 10 years of my life” participating in what tax experts describe as an attempt to avoid taxes by claiming his home was a church. He said he later clashed with the IRS over a law targeting computer consultants suspected of abusing employment tax rules.

In the Web posting, Stack wrote of raiding retirement accounts after suffering a loss of income following a move to Texas, struggling to report “a boatload of undocumented income” earned by his wife, and trying to write-off a piano, which he called “an expensive new business asset.”

Craig Etter, a tax lawyer at Greenberg Traurig LLP in McLean, Virginia, said the employment tax issue has been controversial in the technology industry since it was enacted as a last-minute inclusion in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, the last time Congress overhauled tax laws.

“It caught everybody by surprise,” he said. “It’s not often that legislation carves out one industry to pick on. There were a lot of angry people.”

Computer Consultants

The law makes it harder for software engineers, computer consultants, and other technical services workers to act as independent contractors, rather than as employees.

While some workers prefer to be classified as employees, meaning the employer pays half of Social Security and Medicare taxes that total 7.35 percent of salary, independent contractors can shelter more money from taxes by making larger contributions to retirement accounts and by deducting business expenses. Workers in the computer-consulting industry typically want to be classified as independent contractors for that reason, Etter said.

President Barack Obama proposed a crackdown on employment tax fraud in his 2011 budget proposal with new rules to more clearly define when workers should be classified as employees or as independent contractors. In addition, the IRS this month is scheduled to begin auditing 6,000 companies to test compliance with employment tax laws. Businesses duck about $14 billion a year in taxes due to worker misclassification, the Treasury Department estimated in 2005.

Church Exemption

In his posting, Stack said his tax troubles began when he was working in Southern California in the 1980s. He describes becoming involved in an organization that sought to exploit a tax-code section that exempts churches from taxes.

“We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the ‘best,’ high-paid experienced tax lawyers in the business) and then began to do exactly what the ‘big boys’ were doing,” Stack wrote in his note, referring to tax exemptions claimed by the Catholic Church. That “little lesson,” he wrote, cost him “$40,000 and 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0.”

In a statement today, IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman said his department is “working with law-enforcement agencies to fully investigate the events that led up to this plane crash.”

Stack’s posting, which was taken down from his Web site at the request of authorities, specifically mentioned the IRS as a target.

“Violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer,” it said. “Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.”

J.J. McNabb, a Bethesda, Maryland, author working on a book about tax protesters who has testified before Congress twice on the subject, said the posting echoes the beliefs of such activists.

“He fits the mold,” she said in an interview. “Blaming the government for your failures in life is unfortunately a big factor in the tax protester movement.”

[richardhutnik]

Krugman on the GOP not willing to sit down and discuss what programs they want to cut to balance the budget:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/opini ... ugman.html

O.K., the beast is starving. Now what? That’s the question confronting Republicans. But they’re refusing to answer, or even to engage in any serious discussion about what to do.

...

At this point, then, Republicans insist that the deficit must be eliminated, but they’re not willing either to raise taxes or to support cuts in any major government programs. And they’re not willing to participate in serious bipartisan discussions, either, because that might force them to explain their plan — and there isn’t any plan, except to regain power.

But there is a kind of logic to the current Republican position: in effect, the party is doubling down on starve-the-beast. Depriving the government of revenue, it turns out, wasn’t enough to push politicians into dismantling the welfare state. So now the de facto strategy is to oppose any responsible action until we are in the midst of a fiscal catastrophe. You read it here first.


- Rich

[richardhutnik]

By the way, for anyone who has had their unemployment run out, go here:
http://www.jobs4americanow.org/the-end-of-the-line/

Enter your phone number, and you will have an autoresponder call that will thank you for responding and then it will call your local congressman and you can leave them a message. I did that.

Anyhow, with myself, looks like I am moving out of where I am and back to my parents. I am sorry the social safety net failed here, but hey, it is government. How can one expect government to do anything to help anyone except take their money so you can finance wars and bailouts for large banks?

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

A study done by Harvard founds that more people die in American annual from the lack of health coverage (over 44000): http://harvardscience.harvard.edu/medic ... h-coverage

Than die in auto accidents (40000):
http://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident ... stics.html

Anyhow, carry on.

- Rich

[HarthorneWingo]

A study done by Harvard founds that more people die in American annual from the lack of health coverage (over 44000): http://harvardscience.harvard.edu/medic ... h-coverage

Than die in auto accidents (40000):
http://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident ... stics.html

Anyhow, carry on.

- Rich

Yup.

[HarthorneWingo]

I love this Grayson guy. I hope he runs for President after Obama's finished his second term.

Apparently republicans love him too!!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/0 ... 86090.html

Grayson Leading In REPUBLICAN Primary
First Posted: 03- 4-10 02:51 PM | Updated: 03- 4-10 03:14 PM
By: Ryan Grim


Republicans like a politician who stands up for what he believes -- even if he believes the Republican Party is populated by a bunch of "knuckle-dragging Neanderthals." The candidate leading the Florida GOP primary to determine who will take on Rep. Alan Grayson, the Democrat who represents the Orlando-based district, is none other than Grayson himself, according to a poll paid for by his campaign. Grayson is a freshman congressman who has drawn scorn from the GOP and has quickly built a nationwide following of progressives.

The poll has Grayson leading the 13 Republicans -- among Republicans -- with 27.8 percent of the vote. The congressman who mocked the GOP health care plan by saying that it amounts to telling people not to get sick and if they do, to die quickly, received more support than all of the Republican candidates combined. No GOP candidate scored above 3.7 percent; 57.7 percent said they were undecided. Grayson did particularly well with women, undercutting the notion that referring to a Washington lobbyist as a "K Street whore" would turn female voters away. (Grayson later apologized for the word choice.)

.....(More)......

[cgf]

Is it wishful thinking on my part or could germany really not bail out Greece and Spain? We're too bleeding heart as a people to let it happen, but if we did I'd be so proud of my soon to be ex-country. Greece is going to fail to make significant headway on their budget gap and hopefully when that happens we say nah-uh, no more for you. I just find it so ridiculous that Greece and soon Sapin are going to come begging a country like germany, that works more hours, retires later and in general is more productive to come bail them out.