HOU/NY/WASH - Does this work for you, Rockets Fans?

lowermerionfilms · Post #1 » by **lowermerionfilms** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:34 pm

NOTE: This trade is also posted on the "Trades" page, but I wanted to get feedback directly from the Houston fanbase about this idea. Be gentle.

I'd really like to see this trade work out (for reasons I'll explain in a moment), but I've been racking my brain and can't really find a trade I'm sure all three sides would like. Here's the best I could come up with, and it assumes 3 absolutes:

1. NO ONE wants Jared Jeffries
2. The Knicks are not trading Jordan Hill or Wilson Chandler until the summer, if at all.
3. Houston needs to maintain their cap flexibility this summer.

With those things in mind, this is what I came up with:

KNICKS
Trade: Al Harrington, Cutino Mobley, Chris Duhon, Nate Robinson, $3 million
Receive: Tracy McGrady, Mike James, Kyle Lowry, 2nd Round Picks from WAS & HOU

ROCKETS
Trade: McGrady, Lowry, 2nd round pick
Receive: Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Duhon

WIZARDS
Trade: Butler, Haywood, James, 2nd Round Pick
Receive: Harrington, Mobley, Robinson, $3 million

WHY FOR NY?
The Knicks have a glut of players in the frontcourt. Losing Harrington opens up minutes for Gallinari and Hill and lets Chandler play more minutes at the 3 (currently he spends a lot of time at SG). The Knicks have two point guards they hate. This deal lets them look at two other PGs who can both be dropped at season's end if they don't work out. The 2 2nd round picks help the team put two cheap guys on the end of the bench next season, which will be a big help since they'll be spending most of their cap on just 4 players (Curry, Jeffries, and their 3 FA signings)

WHY FOR HOU?
They get two quality rotation players in exchange for McGrady, who's done nothing and is a pain in their ass, and Lowry, who's never gonna get on the court when they have Aaron Brooks. Duhon is a servicable veteran who can play the 10-15 minutes a night Brooks needs to rest. The 2nd round pick is a throw-in.

WHY FOR WASH
This is the tough part of the trade for me. I couldn't find a better offer for them, and I imagine this fan base would be the ones most against this trade. The upside for them in this trade is cap relief and huge savings. Mobley's contract is insured, they don't have to pay Butler next season, they get $3 million from the Knicks, and they get a cheap look at Nate Robinson to see if he has a future with the team. In the short term, he's a better substitue for Arenas than anyone they currently have on their roster. Also,they send constant headache Mike James packing.

Moreyball · Post #2 » by **Moreyball** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:02 pm

the rockets have been offered butler and haywood for tmac. why would they want to take on duhon for lowry and a 2nd rd pick (which they dont have)

moofs · Post #3 » by **moofs** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:16 pm

They get two quality rotation players in exchange for McGrady, who's done nothing and is a pain in their ass, and Lowry, who's never gonna get on the court when they have Aaron Brooks.

You aren't very familiar with our team, are you?

Rendezvous · Post #4 » by **Rendezvous** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:24 pm

lowermerionfilms wrote:NOTE: This trade is also posted on the "Trades" page, but I wanted to get feedback directly from the Houston fanbase about this idea. Be gentle.

I'd really like to see this trade work out (for reasons I'll explain in a moment), but I've been racking my brain and can't really find a trade I'm sure all three sides would like. Here's the best I could come up with, and it assumes 3 absolutes:

1. NO ONE wants Jared Jeffries
2. The Knicks are not trading Jordan Hill or Wilson Chandler until the summer, if at all.
3. Houston needs to maintain their cap flexibility this summer.

With those things in mind, this is what I came up with:

KNICKS
Trade: Al Harrington, Cutino Mobley, Chris Duhon, Nate Robinson, $3 million
Receive: Tracy McGrady, Mike James, Kyle Lowry, 2nd Round Picks from WAS & HOU

ROCKETS
Trade: McGrady, Lowry, 2nd round pick
Receive: Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Duhon

WIZARDS
Trade: Butler, Haywood, James, 2nd Round Pick
Receive: Harrington, Mobley, Robinson, $3 million

WHY FOR NY?
The Knicks have a glut of players in the frontcourt. Losing Harrington opens up minutes for Gallinari and Hill and lets Chandler play more minutes at the 3 (currently he spends a lot of time at SG). The Knicks have two point guards they hate. This deal lets them look at two other PGs who can both be dropped at season's end if they don't work out. The 2 2nd round picks help the team put two cheap guys on the end of the bench next season, which will be a big help since they'll be spending most of their cap on just 4 players (Curry, Jeffries, and their 3 FA signings)

WHY FOR HOU?
They get two quality rotation players in exchange for McGrady, who's done nothing and is a pain in their ass, and Lowry, who's never gonna get on the court when they have Aaron Brooks. Duhon is a servicable veteran who can play the 10-15 minutes a night Brooks needs to rest. The 2nd round pick is a throw-in.

WHY FOR WASH
This is the tough part of the trade for me. I couldn't find a better offer for them, and I imagine this fan base would be the ones most against this trade. The upside for them in this trade is cap relief and huge savings. Mobley's contract is insured, they don't have to pay Butler next season, they get $3 million from the Knicks, and they get a cheap look at Nate Robinson to see if he has a future with the team. In the short term, he's a better substitue for Arenas than anyone they currently have on their roster. Also,they send constant headache Mike James packing.

lowermerionfilms · Post #5 » by **lowermerionfilms** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Moreyball wrote:the rockets have been offered butler and haywood for tmac. why would they want to take on duhon for lowry and a 2nd rd pick (which they dont have)

You can't trade McGrady for just Butler and Haywood. The salaries don't match. You'll need to add at least $6 million more in salary to make it work. Duhon's deal is expiring. You could get Mike James from the Wizards and the deal still works, but my understanding is that the Wiz want more than just expiring deals for Butler and Haywood, so you'll be giving up young talent to either them or someone else. It seems to me that the Rockets aren't in a position to pay Lowry fair market value this summer because, as good as he is, he'll never beat out Brooks for the starting PG position. You may as well trade him now for some pieces that make you a legit contender this year.

2ksports · Post #6 » by **2ksports** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:50 pm

sure no one wants jeffries, but HOU can afford to take him

Depressio · Post #7 » by **Depressio** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:42 pm

I responded to this already in the Wizards forum, too, but I'll put it here as well. About Lowry:

Lowry is HIGHLY valued by the Rockets as a back-up. Also, I'm not sure you're aware since you may not also be a Rockets fan, Houston often plays with both Brooks and Lowry at the same time and it's really very effective against smaller line-ups. Lowry's value is on his keen ability to draw fouls and push the pace. There are statistics out there that say he's the biggest change of pace player in the NBA and in the top 5 at drawing fouls. Not only that, but his chemsitry with the rest of the bench (Budinger, Landry) is well documented. Check this out:

Code: Select all
On Off Net Brooks +4.7 -2.8 +7.5 Ariza +1.1 -2.5 +3.6 Battier +3.7 -2.9 +6.6 Scola -2.3 -1.1 -1.1 Hayes +5.1 -0.1 +5.3 Landry +5.9 -12.0 +18.0 Budinger +10.2 -13.3 +23.5 Andersen +8.1 -22.1 +30.2

And for further validation of the above, consider Carl Landry's +/- numbers the last 5 games.

PHX: -9 (Lowry out)
GSW: -6 (Lowry out),
@MEM: +15 (Lowry available)
PHI: +7, but -14 in second half (Lowry available 1st half, out second half)
MIA: -12 (Lowry out)

Believe me, unless Lowry gets a large offer of over the MLE, the Rockets will be matching it. I don't think many other teams see him as a more valuable player than the Rockets do.

Post #8 » by **Mr. E** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:17 pm

So the rationale for trading Lowry is that he'll never see the floor for the Rockets? :lol:

Teckon · Post #9 » by **Teckon** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:48 am

Lowry is the X factor of the current rocket team. As mentioned by Depressio, he has the biggest on/off court +/- impact to the team. Lowry was injured for last 2-3 weeks and see how the rockets' performance goes downhill during that stretch in his absence.

Lowry's absence due to injury causes Brooks to play heavy minutes recently and that is probably why you say "never gonna to get on court when they Aaroon Brooks".

Brooks and Lowry works well together on the court. They are extremely effective when the opponents allow them to play both of them together on court.

Below was what Rockets player program Director, Shawn Respert said during one interview:

"What I like about having them together on the court is they are opposites. Aaron sees a living example of the things he needs to improve on with Kyle Lowry around: defense, energy level, hustle, the ability to be more of a playmaker versus a scorer. And then it goes the other way around too: Aaron takes a leadership role in teaching Kyle that if you're going to be a complete point guard in this league, this is how you focus on being aggressive and looking for your shot and making things happen as a guy who has the ball in his hands a lot."

Lowry is not untouchable but he is not a throw in either. There are even some rockets fans willing to trade Brooks for impact player due to the good performance by Lowry. Rockets will only trade Lowry if they can bring back a VERY Good player, someone that can also cover Brooks' off nights and will be part of the long term plan for the Rockets.

Alex_De_Large · Post #10 » by **Alex_De_Large** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:27 am

i do haywood+butler for tmac. haywood+butler+duhon for tmac+lowry maybe if we don't give a second round. lowry is improving every day while duhon is good but getting old.

Post #11 » by **TMU** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:18 am

I expect a massive riot in Houston if Morey gets Duhon. After all, Duhon is a worse outside shooter than Rafer Alston.

Post #12 » by **TMU** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:49 am

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/ne ... id=4909238

It might be over...

So what's next? Cleveland and Detroit? Really?

Iggyemu · Post #13 » by **Iggyemu** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:43 pm

Yea that was short lived. Guess we'll let his contract expire and this will go down as one of the biggest mistakes or Morey's career in Houston. Simply put...they should have let him play instead of assuming they could trade him. Now he can't help the team while we wait for his contract to expire. Nothing McGrady has done warranted the silly notion of telling him they don't want him to play and will try to trade him. Now we are a struggling team and it looks like we won't be able to move this contract for any helpful pieces.

Those are the types of decisions that kill GMs. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. They may not have wanted him back but if he was healthy you let him play while you try to trade him. Sending him home ensured that if you didn't trade him there was noway he could possibly help the team between now and the end of the season.