Why we should do the Cleveland trade

[Grang33r]

Danny Ferry is not trading J.J. Hickson to any team. Lebron James said J.J. must stay, period.

The trade is Ilgauskas for Murphy straight up and Ilgauskas gets waived and re-signs with Cleveland.

Larry Bird will do it to get Murphy off the team and get rid of his salary from next years payroll.

Prior to tonight, Hickson is shooting 13-73 from outside the paint. Umm, that is NOT very good. And i doubt Ferry is not including him in trade talks. That is .178 shooting percentage..... aka, he's still got a lot to learn and by the time the playoffs come, he won't see much court time. Thus, making him available.

Although, Hickson was great tonight. Doing everything in his power not to get traded to Indiana. lol

[FreeRon]

Except Indiana doesn't have to pay Z $8 million?

Way to jump on the number, dude. I'm sure your math teacher is proud. Now, in case any other Cavs fans are reading, I'll type slower so you all can keep up. Aside from the fact that the Cavs are a division rival, we would rather pay Murphy $(insert pro-rated salary for the rest of the season here) to play for us than pay Z $(insert predicted buyout number here) to play for Cleveland. And I do realize that we would clear the $12 million in Murphy's '10-'11 salary by doing so, but at that point he becomes even more valuable as an expiring contract. So, the way I see it, Cleveland can either offer a reasonable deal, which would include JJ and/or a first, and get Murphy for at least a year (they could trade him as an expiring next year if it doesn't work) or they can keep Z and let him expire with Shaq and have all sorts of cap space this summer. Frankly, I'm ok with either. Murphy straight up for Z when we have other options, though, is not ok with me. I'm not Larry Bird, though, so it's still possible. I'm merely making a point that I don't believe most Indiana fans would approve. Feel free to correct any numbers I may have missed on again if you don't have anything valuable to add to the conversation.

[TheOUTLAW]

Z's contract had him payed early this year meaning that he's not really owed very much at all from hear to the end of the season. Now there is a trade kicker, but I'm almost positive that the entire amount owed is probably right around 3 million. As you guys have said, JJ does have alot to learn, but he's improved markedly which is why people are so excited about him.

[stycool24]

Most of the Z's salary is already paid. There is no way that the Cavs include JJ Hickson in the deal, they refused to deal him to the Sixers for Andre. The Pacers are losing money, they would rather save money and tank than pay Murphy.

So, Big Z + 2012 2nd round pick, then buy him out and send him back.

[basketballwacko2]

Z's contract had him payed early this year meaning that he's not really owed very much at all from hear to the end of the season. Now there is a trade kicker, but I'm almost positive that the entire amount owed is probably right around 3 million. As you guys have said, JJ does have alot to learn, but he's improved markedly which is why people are so excited about him.

I'm understanding that you guys like Hickson but if you get Murphy and you have Varejo and Z. comes back when is Hickson gonna play? I'm ok tith the deal if the Pacers get a #1 pick this yr or next, I don't care, but I want a little something more than just the salary dump. Really pick is gonna be very late and the Cavs would have to give the player picked a gauranteed deal.

So Z and #1 plus $3.0 million for Murph and Diener if you want him?

[FreeRon]

2nd round picks are useless. And for the 3rd time, even if we just want to save money the Sacramento deal is better for us.

[writerman]

Danny Ferry is not trading J.J. Hickson to any team. Lebron James said J.J. must stay, period.

The trade is Ilgauskas for Murphy straight up and Ilgauskas gets waived and re-signs with Cleveland.

Larry Bird will do it to get Murphy off the team and get rid of his salary from next years payroll.

If the Pacer brass are stupid enough to give up a double-double guy--whatever his salary--and then give back Cleveland the guy in the trade and get basically nothing in return, then they should all be fired. Hell, even if the Cavs added their nearly worthless 1st round pick, I'd still say no deal.

This is a Cav fan's wet dream--their cake (and maybe a title) and eat it too.

I say screw that. So keep Hickson, who IMO you are way overvaluing. Murphy will be worth a hell of a lot more to us next year anyway.

[writerman]

Most of the Z's salary is already paid. There is no way that the Cavs include JJ Hickson in the deal, they refused to deal him to the Sixers for Andre. The Pacers are losing money, they would rather save money and tank than pay Murphy.

So, Big Z + 2012 2nd round pick, then buy him out and send him back.

I've seen shyster used car salesmen knowing the transmission of the sale they're pushing is full of sawdust smarter than to offer a deal that one sided--so one sided it almost amounts to an insult to anyone's intelligence. If the Pacer brass are stupid enough to go for snake oil like that, they should be fired.

Yeah---let's give the Cavs the likely final piece they need to win a title and get nothing in return.

[8305]

Before the season I wouldn't have made the deal with Cleveland even if they included Hickson. But as this season has progressed you can plainly see all the pieces of the Pacer puzzle don't fit. After the O'Neal trade I think the Pacers hoped the veteran core of Dunleavy, Murphy, Ford and Foster would make contributions that could get us to the playoffs and the young guys would get enough time to develop. These veterans aren't getting us to the playoffs. Given that they serve no purpose.

Bird should get the best deal he can. But if an expiring is the best you can get you make that deal.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Pacers are losing money, they would rather save money and tank than pay Murphy.

False. Your premise is flawed, meaning your thought process is wrong as well.


Take this back everywhere else. The Pacers threw out false numbers in order to negotiate a VERY SWEET arena lease deal with the city of Indianapolis. The Pacers actually averaged something like $8 million a year in profit over the past 12 years. It's not a ton, but it's in the positive. Now, with a much better arena deal (they pay absolutely NO operating costs anymore on Canseco Fieldhouse), they are looking to make much more money.

Murphy's deal isn't the hindrance you think it is. The Pacers will want something. If Ike Diogu....er....JJ Hickson is the sticking point, that's fine. Just recognize that he's not a top tier prospect, and your 1st rounder isn't very valuable as well. Neither are the 2nds. You need to hope and pray that another team just wants to dump salary, but at that point, don't be surprised if they hold onto Z and you don't get him back as part of the deal. I would think Bird and Obie would love to have Z for even a few months to tutor Hibbert.

[writerman]

Before the season I wouldn't have made the deal with Cleveland even if they included Hickson. But as this season has progressed you can plainly see all the pieces of the Pacer puzzle don't fit. After the O'Neal trade I think the Pacers hoped the veteran core of Dunleavy, Murphy, Ford and Foster would make contributions that could get us to the playoffs and the young guys would get enough time to develop. These veterans aren't getting us to the playoffs. Given that they serve no purpose.

Bird should get the best deal he can. But if an expiring is the best you can get you make that deal.

screw that. I guess I just have this silly objection to us being robbed--and that's what these (IMO) lunatics in Cleveland are proposing. Screw 'em. You don't give up a double-double guy for nothing, then give them back the guy they traded to you to boot.

THEY'RE the ones in the title hunt who may be missing that final piece that might be the key. We know our season isn't going anyplace, we're the ones with no real pressure--we don't need to do squat--they're the ones who may need to make a move. They say they have other options--fine. No-one else is going to donate to the Cleveland Cavaliers Charity Title Fund either--they'll have to give up something of value, and the only things they have are Z's expiring or Hickson. I don't think they're going to get a difference-maker with just Z's expiring, whether they've deluded themselves into thinking they will or not. Besides, no-one has mentioned the obvious--if Hickson is that good, which the Cav fans seem to absurdly think, then why are they trying to deal at all? The title is already as good as theirs, with superstar JJ at forward, right?

Murph's expiring will be even more valuable next year,.

[Ben]

Danny Ferry is not trading J.J. Hickson to any team. Lebron James said J.J. must stay, period.

The trade is Ilgauskas for Murphy straight up and Ilgauskas gets waived and re-signs with Cleveland.

Larry Bird will do it to get Murphy off the team and get rid of his salary from next years payroll.

Prior to tonight, Hickson is shooting 13-73 from outside the paint. Umm, that is NOT very good. And i doubt Ferry is not including him in trade talks. That is .178 shooting percentage..... aka, he's still got a lot to learn and by the time the playoffs come, he won't see much court time. Thus, making him available.

Although, Hickson was great tonight. Doing everything in his power not to get traded to Indiana. lol

Bulls fan here, just dropped by to see what the Troy Murphy discussions would be like over here. Personally I would love to get him for the Bulls if we can't get Amare or Boozer at the deadline, but I don't think that our management will make any kind of offer.

I'm glad to see some guys here resisting the Hickson hype. It's just insane. It was crazier last year, when some Cleveland fans hyped him as the next Karl Malone when he hadn't even done anything. This year he's had a few good games, but as one of your posters pointed out, he has no range whatsoever. He primarily gets his points on open shots right at the rim. The other night he made his first jumper in over a month. That's fine if you've got Lebron and Shaq to get double-teamed, so that the PF can get open looks, but that wouldn't happen if Hickson were playing for you (or for the Bulls, for that matter).

If your management feels that you absolutely must trade Murphy, and if and expiring plus Hickson is all you can get, that won't be the worst thing in the world. But the idea that he's some sort of savior or awesome project is meritless.

[8305]

Reasons why I make the trade for expirings only.

1. When Hansbrough gets back he should play a lot. He is the Pacers futrue at the 4. The sooner he and Hibbert are on the floor together for extended minutes the better. We will no doubt take our lumps for the rest of this season but we would be better for it next season.
2. Hibbert and Murphy are a terrible defensive combination.
3. Moving Murphy now moves the Pacers salary structure to a place where a the full mid-level could be used this summer without exceeding the luxury tax threshold. A player who fits a need could probably be had for that amount of money.
4. Lose a few more games and the chances of getting a higher pick increase.

As to getting HIckson in the deal or not. He doesn't impress me that much. I wouldn't give up the potential salary flexibility holding out for him. Hansbrough is a better prospect.

[PR07]

If it's strictly a salary dump, it doesn't make sense for the Pacers. The only way they should trade Murphy is if there are some pieces that can help their long-term future, be it draft picks or young players with upside.

[floppymoose]

Prior to tonight, Hickson is shooting 13-73 from outside the paint.

A shot is the easiest thing for a player to add to his game. The list of guys who couldn't shoot and later could is long. Jason Richardson couldn't shoot a lick as a rookie, and he led the league in three pointers made a couple of years back. The athletic ability Hickson has, though, can't be gained later on by other players.

[Miller4ever]

^^It depends on the player. Some guys never, ever get a shot, even though it's the only thing they need to add.

[23artest23]

I think that we would be crazy to trade Murphy for Z and Hickson. Much better to hold on to him if that is the best we can do. All the Hickson hype will die out after the deadline...