Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[Wizards2Lottery]

Is the lux tax that big of a deal that we just start pawning away players who are actually useful? Please don't tell me we traded the #5 pick for lux tax relief. I at least want Miller to finish one full season as a Wizard.

[Dat2U]

Wow. I'm trying to figure when Mike Miller morphed into the franchise caliber player. Because reading all the posts about how great he is, its a wonder he didn't lead Minnesota into the playoffs by himself. It's like the board has a collective hard on for the guy.

I guarantee had the board done a poll about choosing b/w Mike Miller & Shane Battier before last week, Battier would have won hands down. Only now, after the trade is made and we have Miller do we all the sudden question Battier's age, stats or ability to fit in our lineup.

Irregardless I think the guy we'll come to end up regretting we passed on was Steph Curry. It's a gut feeling but if we were going to sell out on having a completely offensive minded team then Curry was the guy to select. Contrary to popular belief Curry was the type of rookie that could come in and contribute immediately in a team's rotation. And the sad thing about the trade was that if EG waited until draft day, he possibly could have had Curry AND Miller or at least Curry and the #18th pick. You can make an argument about Miller being a good fit next to our big three but I'd take Curry over Foye 10 times out of 10 and find it hard to believe that someone can make a legitimate argument the Foye is an ideal fit or anything more than mediocre guard.

Posted on 6/29/09.

[Dat2U]

After some time, I wonder how these people feel now given that Rubio will only have an affordable buyout for the 2011-12 season:

I respect your posts bro, but your making yourself look foolish with this one. It's waaaaaaaaaay too early to start dealing out 'I told you so's'. Rubio's deal ain't done. Secondly, there's no telling whether Rubio would be worth the wait until he actually plays in the NBA. Thirdly, Rubio wasn't the player available at #5.

More importantly, as alluded to, the Wizards because their offseason acquistitions, face some tough offseason choices next year with regards to Foye, Haywood & Miller. Losing any of those guys should bring into question whether the trade was the right move.

Finally, anything less than a high 40s win total or a first round exit would show that throwing all your eggs in the basket with this roster was a mistake. It's put up or shut up with this squad and there are no more excuses for failure. We have to let this year play out (and possibly beyond) before anyone can claim being on having the right or wrong opinion of EG's trade.

Now you can say "I told you so".

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I gotta side with barely & CCJ on this one. I don't like the trade all that much.

My theory on NBA trades is pretty simple and is a tried and true measure. Whoever gets the best player in the deal gets the better of the trade.

Can any of you honestly say that Mike Miller or Randy Foye are and will be better than anyone we could have drafted at #5?

For all you James Harden fans, alot of you are the same folks touting this trade, are you suggesting that he would have never equalled what Mike Miller or Randy Foye is today?

Both Miller & Foye are considered offensive minded players. Neither is known for their defense. However Miller's PER last year was 13.84 and Foye's PER was 13.76. So what does that tell us if the league average 15.00 and PER is considered the best way of measuring a players productiveness?

I believe we needed quality talent NOT quantity. To me its about a team filling out its rotation, instead of attempting to add an impact player.

Unless you can convince me that Miller & Foye are the final pieces to a championship puzzle, I have trouble viewing this as a good deal for the Wizards.

Props to you, too, Dat.

I was wrong thinking Pecherov would be good elsewhere, but did think the #5 pick would be better than what they got. At the time of my first reaction, I hadn't even realized Minny kept the 18 and 28. When I found that out I was really down on the deal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't like this trade at all. I was never a big fan of Foye and I don't think he's any better than Nick Young. I like Miller, but not for the #5 pick.

And for the life of me, I don't understand why we didn't give them Stevenson instead of Songaila. We now have Arenas, Foye, Young, Stevenson, James and Crittenton in the backcourt, plus Miller, DMac and Butler who can also spend some time there. That's a huge log jam. Meanwhile, we only have 4 credible big men: Jamison, Haywood, Blatche and McGee - and McGee hasn't shown that he's a reliable player yet.

I hope another trade is in the works.

Props to nate.

Too bad that other trade in the works happened February 13, 2010, with Ernie just traded Haywood and Butler for a tiny bit of cash.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is a laughably bad trade, and I am shocked that anyone is supporting it.

Foye can't defend.
Miller can't defend.

In terms of this team, we either needed a defensive upgrade from Jamison while providing a good portion of the offense, or we needed quality defensive backups who were not horrible offensively.

Instead we bring in Mike Miller who can do a lot of nice things but can't defend, and we bring in Randy Foye who can't defend the pick and roll (on a team that has never been able to defend the pick and roll) and can't guard SGs.

Ernie clearly has no real understanding of what this team actually needs, and is content to stack one-dimensional scorers thinking he can put up 120 a night. That will get us to the second round...and no further.

I'm not saying he had to go out and trade for Amare/Bosh, but I am saying that a trade involving the pick has to fill actual team needs, and not just continue to add redundant pieces. Yes, Foye and Miller are "upgrades" on DMac and Critt. Do they fix the primary weakness of this team?

If another trade is not forthcoming, then this is yet another idiotic shortsighted move by Ernie Grunfeld.

Chaos really knew what was going on and he knew EG was idiotically shortsighted back last summer.

[Kanyewest]

After some time, I wonder how these people feel now given that Rubio will only have an affordable buyout for the 2011-12 season:

I respect your posts bro, but your making yourself look foolish with this one. It's waaaaaaaaaay too early to start dealing out 'I told you so's'. Rubio's deal ain't done. Secondly, there's no telling whether Rubio would be worth the wait until he actually plays in the NBA. Thirdly, Rubio wasn't the player available at #5.

More importantly, as alluded to, the Wizards because their offseason acquistitions, face some tough offseason choices next year with regards to Foye, Haywood & Miller. Losing any of those guys should bring into question whether the trade was the right move.

Finally, anything less than a high 40s win total or a first round exit would show that throwing all your eggs in the basket with this roster was a mistake. It's put up or shut up with this squad and there are no more excuses for failure. We have to let this year play out (and possibly beyond) before anyone can claim being on having the right or wrong opinion of EG's trade.

Now you can say "I told you so".

Yup. Steph Curry or even DeRoazan would've been better. Although I guess it didn't jepordize the Wizards lottery chances.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I go out to the movies for a couple of hours and I come back to THIS?



Seems like most of my fellow die-hard Wizheads like the deal. Me? I'm with Ji et al...not feeling this one AT ALL.

As many have stated, we are now so guard heavy, it is ridiculous

Better hope EFG has another move up his sleeve. Otherwise, hello 30 win season!

mo and ji both hated it, and wondered (later in thread) why EG couldn't get the 18th pick.

(I know now it was due to him being incompetent, unfit, myopic, or my word: stupid).

[Ruzious]

Wow. I'm trying to figure when Mike Miller morphed into the franchise caliber player. Because reading all the posts about how great he is, its a wonder he didn't lead Minnesota into the playoffs by himself. It's like the board has a collective hard on for the guy.

I guarantee had the board done a poll about choosing b/w Mike Miller & Shane Battier before last week, Battier would have won hands down. Only now, after the trade is made and we have Miller do we all the sudden question Battier's age, stats or ability to fit in our lineup.

Irregardless I think the guy we'll come to end up regretting we passed on was Steph Curry. It's a gut feeling but if we were going to sell out on having a completely offensive minded team then Curry was the guy to select. Contrary to popular belief Curry was the type of rookie that could come in and contribute immediately in a team's rotation. And the sad thing about the trade was that if EG waited until draft day, he possibly could have had Curry AND Miller or at least Curry and the #18th pick. You can make an argument about Miller being a good fit next to our big three but I'd take Curry over Foye 10 times out of 10 and find it hard to believe that someone can make a legitimate argument the Foye is an ideal fit or anything more than mediocre guard.

Posted on 6/29/09.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced Curry is any better than Foye. We're talking about 2 guys who should be nice 3rd guards. Curry's stats might look bright and shiney on a lousy run and gun GS team, but the meaningful stats are pretty much the same as Foye's. Their PERs are basically the same, and before you say but, Foye's was also about the same when he was a rookie - while playing out of position. And looking at their measurement, Curry doesn't stack up to Foye physically. Even though Foye measured in at 27 lbs heavier, he did much better than Curry in the lane quickness drill and a little better in the 3/4 court sprint. Foye's wingspan and verticle jump were both nearly 3 inches longer. If you want to talk little guards, Washington would have been better off with Jennings or Flynn - or even Lawson - picked with the pick EG should have been able to get in the Minny trade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Our retread GM strikes again. Man, and I thought the Jamison deal was bad, this one is the worst of his tenure.

#5 pick is better than Mike Miller & Randy Foye COMBINED right now, not even mentioning the productive backup we gave up and the prospect 7 FT'er.

Stephen Curry would have put up 20 ppg on the Wolves last season with better FG%. James Harden couldn't put up the #'s Foye did? Both are legit NBA players, not NBA scrubs like Miller & Foye.

This team is going nowhere even faster than before. :-\

KZ knew the real deal!

But I bet he'll agree EG just outdid himself with an even worse deal this weekend.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Again, if another move is coming that makes this one look good, my tone will change. But on the face of it, this feels like so many Bullets moves of the past: Gus Williams, Dan Roundfield, Jay Vincent, Kevin Duckworth, Ike Austin, Mitch Richmond and so many other band-aid moves to stay "competitive" with veterans. At least get the 18th pick out of this deal or dump Stevenson instead of Songaila. I'm sorry, this is simply not good value, even for a poor draft, unless Foye flat out blows up.

Ben with the old school perspective that was spot on.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

When I first saw the story, I was disgusted - especially since we didn't get the #18 (or even 28?) included. Looks like a salary dump, which means giving away the #5 pick to shave one year of Songaila's contract? Yeah that sounds like a good deal...

At this point, I'm still on the "against" side, but then I'm a draft geek, so I tend to think that every prospect is going to pan out, and we're giving up a definite all-star in the #5 pick. Since there's also the possibility that the #5 turns into a bust, I have to acknowledge the risk factor there.

So here's my best estimate of Ernie's thinking on this one: Sure, it makes us better this year. But we weren't going to the Finals this year anyway - new coach, new system, Gil getting back into the swing after 2 years. So whatever marginal increments are made this year are somewhat irrelevant if they guys who brought them about are gone after the season. And then we'd have to work new guys into the system. Doesn't make any sense.

So I suspect that he likes Miller and plans to retain him past this season, hopefully as an all-purpose 6th man at SG/SF. (Of course, Jamison is supposed to be an all-purpose 6th man too, but we can't seem to get anyone who will push him out of his starting role.) Hopefully MM would re-sign for a reasonable deal (MLE? $6M?), because keeping MM while losing Haywood would be really going backwards. And maybe shedding Songaila's contract gives Ernie just enough space to keep Miller & Haywood - even if they're over the tax threshold, it still saves $10M to have Songaila moved.

Even so, dealing the #5 pick for a one-way swingman off the bench doesn't seem like good value to me. And that's IF he re-signs! So they must think highly of Foye to make the deal.

My guess is - they envision the 2010-11 lineup something like this:

Arenas/backup (Critt? Collison?)
Starter*/Miller/Stevenson (if not dealt by then)
Butler/Miller/McGuire
Jamison/Blatche (or vise versa)/McGee (can he play PF?)
Haywood/McGee

* Starter = season-long competition between Nick Young & Randy Foye. Winner stays long-term (i.e., Foye gets re-signed), loser goes. If Young goes, he might help complete a package for a big-time contributor (could be done at the deadline with James?). If Foye loses out, they could let him walk or try to get something in a sign-and-trade. Basically, drawing two tickets to try and get one winner as a starting-caliber SG.

Not the worst strategy, but too contingent for my liking. It requires pretty much all of the following to be successful, IMO:

* Haywood re-signs
* Miller re-signs
* One of Foye/Young earns the starting SG role - not just gets it by default
* We get something of value for the other one

Otherwise, we'll be here in 2-3 years complaining about how Harden or Evans or Curry is an up-and-coming All-Star while we have nothing to show for the worst season in franchise history.

Turns out we couldn't have got Harden or Evans, but we now know Curry's a star in the making as is Jennings. Flynn will be solid for years to come. Could have had Lawson, Darren Collison, or Blair with the 18th.

Sev foretold of this being the worst season in franchise history. It's worse than the 19-63 season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WOW what a flop of a trade

EG pulled the trigger WAAAYYYY too early. Why couldn't he wait til draft night so see what he could do.

We could have had Rubio or traded it then.

I HATE this trade and I hate this team.

I'll drink to what he said back then and I don't even drink (except like one beer every 3 months).

EG's consistent. Traded Butler and Haywood way too early. Stupid man.

Forgive me if my repetitive tirades get old, but I'm on a mission to use the word stupid in every post about EG I make.

[closg00]

Yep, he did it again (traded too early). Funny thing is that with respect to both trades, HE was in a position of strength both times. Our 5th pick was highly sought and Haywood was wanted badly by Western teams yet Ernie folded early both times and came-out on the losing end of both trades....very badly.

[Dat2U]

EG defines patience AND panic if that's humanly possible.

Generally, he prefers to sit back, do nothing, and let continuity take its course. However when he's under the gun and feels pressured to make a deal, he's incredibly impatient and appears almost desperate. Even a 'wet behind the ears' GM like Kahn picked up on that.

[Benjammin]

The attitude EG portrays to me is arrogance and laziness. That's not a good combination.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The attitude EG portrays to me is arrogance and laziness. That's not a good combination.

That and he's a liar. And a stupid one at that.

[closg00]

The attitude EG portrays to me is arrogance and laziness. That's not a good combination.

+1 If I had to sum-up Ernie in one word, it would be lazy.

[Kanyewest]

Sorry, but I'm not convinced Curry is any better than Foye. We're talking about 2 guys who should be nice 3rd guards. Curry's stats might look bright and shiney on a lousy run and gun GS team, but the meaningful stats are pretty much the same as Foye's. Their PERs are basically the same, and before you say but, Foye's was also about the same when he was a rookie - while playing out of position. And looking at their measurement, Curry doesn't stack up to Foye physically. Even though Foye measured in at 27 lbs heavier, he did much better than Curry in the lane quickness drill and a little better in the 3/4 court sprint. Foye's wingspan and verticle jump were both nearly 3 inches longer. If you want to talk little guards, Washington would have been better off with Jennings or Flynn - or even Lawson - picked with the pick EG should have been able to get in the Minny trade.

The problem with the trade is that Foye is a free agent after this year. If The Wizards can't resign Foye to a reasonable contract after the season is over, this becomes a horrible trade. Although, the Wizards did save money by doing this deal by trading Darius and Etan, the money saved can be used to resign Foye, I guess.

[Ruzious]

Sorry, but I'm not convinced Curry is any better than Foye. We're talking about 2 guys who should be nice 3rd guards. Curry's stats might look bright and shiney on a lousy run and gun GS team, but the meaningful stats are pretty much the same as Foye's. Their PERs are basically the same, and before you say but, Foye's was also about the same when he was a rookie - while playing out of position. And looking at their measurement, Curry doesn't stack up to Foye physically. Even though Foye measured in at 27 lbs heavier, he did much better than Curry in the lane quickness drill and a little better in the 3/4 court sprint. Foye's wingspan and verticle jump were both nearly 3 inches longer. If you want to talk little guards, Washington would have been better off with Jennings or Flynn - or even Lawson - picked with the pick EG should have been able to get in the Minny trade.

The problem with the trade is that Foye is a free agent after this year. If The Wizards can't resign Foye to a reasonable contract after the season is over, this becomes a horrible trade. Although, the Wizards did save money by doing this deal by trading Darius and Etan, the money saved can be used to resign Foye, I guess.

That's why I mentioned Jennings, Flynn & Lawson. My point was about Curry not being an alternative to lose sleep over - which some here seem to have. His name has come up several times, and I wanted to give my 2 cents about it.