NBA/ABA Decades League Playoffs: Round 1 DUE SATURDAY

[dockingsched]

my comments on the matchup might sound like gibberish, but just typing out stuff that sticks out to me.

Bracket 1:

Group A:

Snakebites vs. CellarDoor

first off, thank you so much for the quick and concise rebuttals

i don't think snake did a good job of addressing how he was going to defend payton. the size advantage for payton was acknowledged by both, but snake said that he'd simply rely on the fact that payton's post play "will often be a zone in which he is not as free to operate with the defenders we have down low." defenders down low are a bit limited with mchale guarding bird and walton being pulled out by lanier. still, payton's post play can only get you so much.

also of note is that cellar's keys to victory includes "Not letting Kobe beat us" but he didn't mention in his writeup anything about bruce bowen. kobe once said bowen was the toughest defender he faced, that would have been huge and he probably deserves some of those minutes being given to VC specially since some of your strategy is to post payton/bird and have VC doing some spotting up.

bird is going to just destroy snake's defense imo. snake is going out there with mchale on bird which i don't think will be too effective, but he's also feeding mullin to the wolves on the glass like cellar mentioned. this is just a really tough break of a matchup for snake who has mullin and jones getting his SF minutes and normally could get somewhat away with it, but not on bird.

i took note of snake's mchale vs. buck comment and think walton would be smooth with kobe/mullin/mchale flanking him, i just don't think its enough. its a really tough matchup for snake with bird forcing his defense to adjust so much.

vote for cellar, sorry snake.

[dockingsched]

Bracket 1:

Group A:

SabasRevenge! vs. bryant08

first off, kudos to the rebuttals. sabas really came out firing with his write-up and point by point rebutalls and bryant08 was quick to respond. very impressed honestly. if my write-up doesn't live up to your write-ups/rebuttals, i apologize...

so, this was really a fun matchup to read about because it went beyond the player vs. player matchups and really came down to philosophy. bryant08 is stacked with talent, specially offensive talent, sabas is stacked with defensive awards and went with team building role players like the much talked about michael cooper. i don't agree with the way bryant08 just wrote coop off and i was satisfied with sabas' stat that coop was 2nd in the league in 3's with at a rate of 39%. that's going to fill the role that sabas' is using him in. i don't see his presence in the starting lineup as a negative, something that bryant08 was adamant about.

frontcourts is, like mentioned, where the fireworks are at. ewing, barkley, gasol vs. unseld, mourning, hayes. i don't think unseld can defend barkley as effectively as sabas' asserts, and find bryant08's pace comparison between the two players very damaging to sabas' rebounding argument in this same matchup. also of note, which i think is pretty clever, is sabas' bringing up the illegal defense rule change that truly should but a bit of a hit on barkley's style. gasol is going to be limited by the physical players involved in this matchup, but ewing should be able to get his, something i might not think if sabas' focused on it a little more when replying to bryant08.

lebron james vs. dr j is going to be tough for erving. lebron is going to bulldoze his way to the rim, and he has some capable shooters to kick out to.

if i missed anything in my write up, know that i did read everything. i'm going with sabasrevenge!, mostly due to his write-ups' points. bryant08 had a great team too, and it was tougher than the writeup makes it seem.

[dockingsched]

Bracket 1:

Group B:

TMACFORMVP vs. Warspite

another great matchup of well constructed teams. incredibly, incredibly difficult to choose.

i first give credit to tmac for bringing the stats, especially in the barry/jones matchup. showing some of the performances that players had against jones, and showing why performances from other yrs could be relevant to the yr jones was chosen for this game, and showing barry's stats at the time, really was nicely presented (unlike the sentence i just wrote).

i'm not comfortable with the way tmac somewhat dismissed the wilt vs. hakeem matchup just relegating it to great player vs. great player, i do however completely understand his point when he says "I mean, Wilt is better than Robinson, and Ewing sort defensively, but is it entirely possible to be THAT much better than those players defensively that it would reduce Hakeem's effectiveness that much? Hakeem not only played well against those players, but he took their families and raped them". still, wilt, in the yr chosen, damn tough matchup haha. i guess the answer lies somewhere between tmac's assertions and warspite's 18ppg 45% prediction.

the backcourts, man warspite just tore MMR's offense to bits. tmac recovered well by reminding us that while MMR will be playing shooting guard, dumars isn't exactly a traditionally sized sg that would give MMR the type of trouble warspite claims. still though, MMR's range is something that warspite effectively outlined as a debilitating weakness that he'd fully take advantage of. well done. tmac came back with putting cp3 and thomas on the same level, using the yr that thomas is being used to show that he still wasn't terribly more experienced than cp3 and attacked warspite's outside shooting in a equally effective manner. both very good points that hurt warspite's writeup.

warspite did a good job of presenting how his bench would come in and contribute to his game plan including king, richmond, and sikma.

i could honestly flip a coin, and will go with tmac's team. great presentation on the rebuttals. this is hard.

[CellarDoor]

So now if Gremz and Ronny vote in Snakebites' favor, how are we going to break the tie?

[dockingsched]

if u don't count mine, its all good. i said i was going to do it and didnt want to go back on that. i think i'll only be able to get to the last bracket 1 matchup anyway if anyone wants to take bracket 2 or just do everything and ignore my votes.

[SamBone]

mascot has said he would vote if wanted

[CellarDoor]

No reason not to count votes..I'd say just have Mascot or someone break the tie if our match-up comes to it.

[SamBone]

if u don't count mine, its all good. i said i was going to do it and didnt want to go back on that. i think i'll only be able to get to the last bracket 1 matchup anyway if anyone wants to take bracket 2 or just do everything and ignore my votes.

u have put in the time to give great writeup votes, your votes WILL BE COUNTED

[dockingsched]

Bracket 1:

Group B:

BlackIce vs. pancakes3

i really like the write ups in this. they were written in a very descriptive style that had me imagining the actual game being played in my head with the adjustments and sub patterns you guys mention. mcadoo and baylor playing the pick n pop, ak47 and kg switching everything to defend it, ellis chasing miller around while this is happening, mutombo and malone throwing bows fighting for position on the weak side...and thats before throwing jerry west and penny/deron in there.

anywhoo, one of the main issues that was presented...rebounding. both had good points when it came to addressing this part of the matchup. blackice did a good job of minimizing the gap that pancakes established with the pace adjusted stats presented for mcadoo. in pancakes' favor though is his very eloquent description of how much a rebounding sf like baylor could change how his frontcourt rebounds. his last little tidbit on boxing out vs. chasing down a board was a good read. made me want to go and box someone out, i'll just do it on nba 2k10 though.

i didn't find myself agreeing with pancakes' point that "6’11 McAdoo will have no problem shooting over AK47". ak47's wingspan isn't going to be easy to shoot over. on the other hand, i do like his strategy to force mutombo into foul trouble, and while dikembe is no marcus camby like BI says, malone's physicality should be able to accomplish some of the goals that pancakes' sets him out to reach.

i don't think ellis has the speed and mobility to keep up with miller around so many screens. however, i also think ellis fills a role perfectly for BI.

ultimately though, and not to minimize everything else, this is what the matchup came down to for me: can dj guard baylor better than deron/penny can guard west? BI presented some anecdotal evidence in the form of DJ guarding magic to show how dj could handle someone baylor's size. on the other hand, defending jerry west was kinda never addressed, or at least all that was mentioned was putting penny on him, but like BI said deron is playing 28 mpg.

fun read. vote for blackice.

[dockingsched]

ok, i won't be getting to bracket 2, specially with that sambone/bastillion 10 rebuttal matchup. hopefully i explained my votes well enough so that no one feels slighted.

[Miller4ever]

^^I think from here on out you only need to break ties.

[ronnymac2]

I'll try to get my remaining 4 done by tonight.....

[ronnymac2]

Cellar vs. Snake......

I really like both of these teams. Both teams work together beautifully. There's some great passing here.

I actually got to watch a Bill Walton game in its entirety for the first time recently, and what struck me was how great he was ito hurting the other team while helping his team. His main thing wasn't dominating his individual matchup....he gave his team an advantage with effects on the game that involved throwing a wrench in the other's teams plans while getting his teammates to perform at their best regardless of their matchups. Very Russell-esque. His scoring game was a poor-man's Tim Duncan, which is still pretty damn good.

I of course love GP defending Kobe. However, when citing Payton slowing Jordan down, one must remember that Jordan was the first option. Bryant is being used as a overall offensive option (or at least 1b) to Walton. That will help him out. I'm not enamored with Vince covering KJ/Wilkens. I don't think he has the ability to cover those guys, especially KJ and his elite slashing ability (KJ is getting 23 minutes, which is a lot of minutes for a sub).

From personal experience in ATL's, Bird is an extremely tough cover. He's the best player in this series, and he's being guarded by Mchale. He'll enjoy that challenge, letting Mchale know how he can't guard Bird everytime down the court. I don't think Mullin can slow Williams or Hawkins down (though he is an underrated defender...but Hawkins is extremely talented offensively, and Williams is a beast on the offensive glass). I do, however, think Larry will guard Mchale decently. Bird was a better defender in the post than against athletic slashers, so this matchup is his bread and butter defensively. Rememer though, Mullin and Mchale are pretty damn good offensive players who play off others well, and with bryant and Walton helping them out, they'll do pretty well.

The battle of the centers is huge. I honestly don't think Lanier can guard Walton effectively enough to slow his effect on teammates down, and Walton will be able to score decently enough on him. His first step will do well against Lanier, who was better as a low-post defender (though was mobile, too). Walton can defend Lanier well, though Lanier's J takes Walton away from the basket. Walton was quick, agile, and smart though, and should be able to recover much of the time.

What it comes down to me for me is this.....Bird coming off screens is going to be a major problem for Mchale, who won't be effective guarding that style of play. However, Walton will be a major factor in this matchup, helping his teammates out. In trying to guard against the explosive Bryant, Cellar has to sacrifice production from the opposing point guards. I think Wilkens and KJ can make him pay, and I think this version of Bryant can guard Vince pretty well while getting his against the Glove. It's an incredibly tough matchup, but I'm going with Snake in 7. Fantastic job guys (and echoing what D said, I appreciate the concise writeups haha).

[ronnymac2]

Sam vs. Bastillion......

These are teams that will produce beatiful basketball. The writeups were very good, but there are things I have problems with.

Robert Parish is not a bad defensive player by ATL standards. His rotational defense is actually very good, as is his defensive rebounding. He has length and blocks shots, and his man d is good. Also, Shawn Kemp was not some kind of lock-down defender, and he was a turnover and foul machine (Sam mentioned this). Bast is fortunate that Cowens is required to play more minutes than Kemp....Cowens fit his team better. Cowens is actually a great team defender, world's better as a passer, will work better in the up-tempo offense created by Magic (he was an amazing fast-break center for Heinsohn's mid-70's Celtics), and doesn't mess up as much. Dwight won't be able to create any offense for himself against Parish (against Camby he likely can though). To be fair though, Cowens, Pip, and Magic will create lots of offense for him.

I'm not sure why Sam is using Camby, Oakley, and Marion for 18 minutes each. In the context of this ATL, and in this particular matchup, I think Pettit and Parish work much better. I can't think of a way Camby is better than Parish except weak-side shot-blocking (basically gambling for blocks), and Oak's superior post defense isn't necesary against Cowens, who is a high-post big man. Pettit would be better considering Bob's superior jumper, equal rebounding, better passing, and better overall offense compared to Oak. Worthy's just plain better than Marion.

Though I believe Scottie to be the best perimeter defender ever, Jordan won't be stopped. MJ is an underrated spot-up shooter, so Sam's shooting is a strength. Parish, Jordan, Nash, and Pettit have elite mid-range games, and Worthy is pretty damn good, too.

I can see Parish grabbing a defensive rebound and outletting out to Nash, who has Worthy and MJ on the wings, with Pettit trailing ready to pull-up or finish.

Cowens and Pettit might be the best matchup in the entire ATL. Personally, I feel Pettit was Cowens before Cowens- and slightly better in every way. But Dave will not be out-hustled. He is as intense as they come and the perfect guy to defend Pettit and keep the hustling Pettit off the offensive glass.

Putting Mike on Magic is a decent strategy, but I don't think the Magic man will be slowed. Not with Scottie and Cowens able to deliver him the ball in his sweet spots. Scottie and Magic are great together. Both can play either finisher/post player or facilitator. Magic definitely helps Pip in the full-court and on the break, as Scottie is an amazing finisher and athlete.

Nash is great. Sloan is a great defender, but not exactly the best defender on Nash. I do, however, like how Bast said he will switch on everything. I do believe he has the players to do so and not get killed by it. At least Sloan can bother Nash's J in iso situations.

I have to give Bastillion the edge on the glass. That helps the fast-break out. Magic has all the weapons he could ever want on the break....Dwight, Cowens, Thompson, Sampson, Walker, Scottie, and Kemp are so dangerous on the break...that will be hard to stop.

This is a tough call, but I'm going with Bastillion. While I believe his individual defenders vs. Sam's offensive players are getting a bit overrated here, the team defense is exceptional. I believe over the course of the game, they can bother Sam's offense more and get fast-break buckets out of it. In the half-court, the passing is excellent, and Magic can be that offensive constant every team needs. Bastillion wins a great series. Excellent teams guys. Really could have went either way.

[ronnymac2]

The other 2 matchups will be done by tomorrow.

[Gremz]

All In The Name Vs Baller24

All In The Name:

Your points speak volumes about Shaq not requiring 3 point markmenship in the 2000 series, but let's not forget that this is an ATL where most, if not all players selected are a lot better on the defense end than a regualr season. With that said, I don't think it's primarily too much of a problem here, but I would much prefer to see more applicable pieces from range. No knock to Lou Hudson, hell anyone who has seen my teams in ATLs know that I love having him as an option, but I really think at the SF position he could be out of his depth. I understand the restrictions with decades, but I've always seen him as a spark offense from the bench type of guy. He does receive some decent minutes at SG which is nice to see though.
Defesively I like the plan. I'd probably rather see Moncrief stick to his perimeter D rather than get involved in a wing battle with Hill, but I can't fault you too much as the other matchups look pretty good on paper for you.

Baller24:

Sad to see no writeup as I usually enjoy your points. I guess around the team's structure, It's one of the more interesting ones of yours that I have seen. I like the overall chemistry in the backcourt and the dominant scoring from the wings. As per usual the two big guys provide good contrast. Overall a nice bench that brings some nice offensive variety with the range of Price and Webber's passing.

Pretty well rounded matchup here. A very good battle inside with Russell and Shaq, that looks to be the primary focus point. There's more volume offense from Baller and better all around defense from AITN.

Have to give it to AITN, as he points out, I'd assume Shaq would be the main reason for it.

[Gremz]

Snakebites Vs CellarDoor

Snakebites:

Defensively, I don't mind the push for McHale to match up with Bird. Not that it's a premium option, but certainly would be more effective than Mullin's chances. I hardly see it being overall too restrictive considering Bird's IQ, but it will prevent too much of his usual oversizing his opponent on the offensive end. I'm a little concerned with the time that Wilkens and company will have with Payton. Even though Lanier wasn't a dominant beast from midrange, he can provide a solid option from there. If this is the case, then there will be more room for Payton to operate low post which could be worrysome.
Offensively, the team shapes up pretty well. Walton's passing game is huge and really compliments volume scorers and shooters rather well (Kobe and Mullin should benefit most). I would have loved to see you push the interior rebounding and ball movement that you have in this one.

CellarDoor:

The gameplan on the offensive end is solid. Having the ability to post up from the PG ans SF spots will indeed open up a lot of lanes. It's hard to see your bigs getting a great offensive flow going however against the strong PF and C rotation that Snakebites possesses, but the guards and SF options should be quite a handful.
I do like the way the defense sets out. It actually looks to fall into your favour quite a bit in terms of size and overall defensive specialities.


Both great writeups. Short and straight to the point, and I'd expect no less from either of you.

It's tight. The ball movement for Snakebites is oustanding, and there's a number of quality options at both ends of the floor. I have to be a little discouraged by the offensive variety that Bird and Payton can offer up against their matches.

Vote with CellarDoor here.

[Gremz]

Just reading through a few more writeups now (sabas V bryant and bastillon V SamBone for example), and I do apologize if this offends anyone, but I'm not reading past the first rebuttal of each poster. It's not in the rules here, but I've always felt you can get most of your points across in a single rebuttal, otherwise it turns into a PC board debate imo.

I remember all to well in my first ATL when Sabas pretty much destroyed me in a single rebuttal, everything that was needed to be said was, and it's firmly stuck with me.

[Gremz]

SabasRevenge! vs bryant08

This one was closer to a boxing match than a basketball series. I know it's all in good spirit, and thanks for the read guys, a very well matched battle.

SabasRevenge!:

I like the overall build of the team, it's a very solid mix of all the basketball fundamentals that we're after, as you point out. I don't think I can completely buy into the Cooper hype that you illustrate, but for what your team is I think you can get away with him being in there. Being surrounded by the ball movement that your guys have will help him out dramatically on the offensive end.

I do like the strategy of hounding Billups and Cheeks from the defensive end. I do agree that having the ball controlled by score first options could really hurt the offensive gameplan of bryant08. The pace numbers you mentioned are interesting. Not sure if it will speak overall volumes in terms of the big picture, but the illustration there does look to give your team a decent edge.

I am a little concerned about the chances of your guys getting involved in a shootout. I can see how you would restrict that as much as you can, if the tempo was to shift into a high octane affair though, I'm not sure if your ammunition can holds it's own.

bryant08:

I'm not going to lie. Although you make a pretty good argument for possessing a great deal of offensive weapons, the amount of volume you have does concern me. It would be interesting to see how the overall shot selection would work, but I do think Barkley's passing could help you out. Ewing? Not so much. It's tough to look past the numbers though, and what a great array of scoring options tehre are.

I don't see your team as having a defensive blackhole, but I can't say you are even on the same page as Sabas in that department though. Ewing will be a very viable option here however, and you do hold quite a number of help team defenders to assist his anchor work.

What an offensive show this team would put on. I was very surprised with all the TS% numbers that your team possesses.


What a series. A true offense Vs defense in every sense of the word. It seems quite odd, but there's really not a whole lot in this one for me. I'm incredibly impressed with the significant defense of Sabas and the offense of bryant, and as well to the extent you both adamantly pushed you point across.

I spent 5 minutes or so trying to find a reason to vote either way, ultimately I had to relate to the only ATL in which I was lucky to win in, and what got that was a dominant offense.

Disgruntingly voting bryant08, sorry Sabas.

[Gremz]

TMACFORMVP Vs Warspite:

TMACFORMVP:

I do like the chances you have in the passing lanes as you point out. That is a very effective defense against a team with tremendous ball movement such as the Pistons here. You so have a significant edge from the 3pt line in my view, most defeinitely in terms of options. The backcourt defensive switch works well in favour of you also, as MRR is a very prolific PG defender. I'm not debating whether CP3 is a bad defender, he's extremely solid, but if there is one thing I can fault him for it's his perimeter D. We know he's great at hounding players during their dribble and staying with his man, but I'm not so sure he turns into a quality defender if Dumars is operating from range.

I do like the range that Lucas will be able to utilize. It will be a very tough test for McDyess to try and stay with him. Hakeem in his prime is a tough task for anyone, it is Wilt here though.

The overall ball movement with guys like CP3 and Barry is fantastic as you point out. Great to have a guy like Ray Allen to help out as a spark from the bench. There's quite a theme for a lot of offensive brilliance from your team, especially with your plan in mind. Hack-A-Wilt could be useful, but I would be concerned about using too many fouls with his other decent FT shooters, and the risk of little resistence left to halt Wilt.

Warspite:

Your writeup sums up a lot. All about the winning fundamentals. What a great trio to put together (Wilt/Dumars/Thomas). I'm not convinced that Wilt will have such a devastating effect on Hakeem, but the numbers will drop. The turnover numbers you point out are a great facet for you here.

I remember watching the draft and wondering why you hadn't picked up a starting PF until late, and now it all makes sense. That's a deadly bench with such great options as the two way Sikma, and a dominant scorer in King. I am a little concerned with the overall range even though Sikma gives contrast from mid range and Dumars/Richmond can really hurt teams from three.

I do see a great amount of the classic fundamentals with your team, and agree with most of your points.

Sorry TMACFORMVP, but I can't look past perhaps the GOAT in the GOAT season and that classic backcourt of the Pistons.

Vote Warspite.