Raja Bell

Post #1 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:00 am

I saw the article on ESPN titled "Bell intends to stay with Warriors" but the only direct quote from him in the article said "I’m fully prepared to play here." It said he's not pursuing a buyout.

I think the Jazz need to lean on Raja a little. He'd be great to have for the playoffs.

CAE15 · Post #2 » by **CAE15** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:06 am

HappyProle wrote:I saw the article on ESPN titled "Bell intends to stay with Warriors" but the only direct quote from him in the article said "I’m fully prepared to play here." It said he's not pursuing a buyout.

I think the Jazz need to lean on Raja a little. He'd be great to have for the playoffs.

We just cleared up our logjam at the 2 and 3 spot now you want to bring in a vet who is well past his prime and take away minutes from the younger guys? Yeah he can hot the corner 3 and defends well. wait that sounds like wes who can also do other things. I loved bell on the jazz and even liked him on the suns, but we should all know he isnt going to provide much for us in this stage of his career.

Post #3 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:15 am

Raja Bell is trying to play this year. He probably won't.

red4hf · Post #4 » by **red4hf** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:18 am

Why are people here so obsessed with Raja Bell????

I don't get it...... He wasn't that good when he was here.......

Post #5 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:23 am

He was ok. This is many years later now, but he was defensively good and good from the corner.

Post #6 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:25 am

He elbowed Kobe in the throat. Isn't that enough?

Post #7 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:33 am

A Jazzman would be suspended for that ****.

red4hf · Post #8 » by **red4hf** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:40 pm

DelaneyRudd wrote:He was ok. This is many years later now, but he was defensively good and good from the corner.

He actually wasn't good defensively, that's one of the biggest missconceptions out there.......

QuantumMacgyver · Post #9 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:56 pm

red4hf wrote:
DelaneyRudd wrote:He was ok. This is many years later now, but he was defensively good and good from the corner.

He actually wasn't good defensively, that's one of the biggest missconceptions out there.......

Well that's just crazy talk. He didn't have staggering stats, but he was a great man-on defender. Hard-nosed and and really wore his man down physically and mentally.

red4hf · Post #10 » by **red4hf** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:24 pm

QuantumMacgyver wrote:
red4hf wrote:
DelaneyRudd wrote:He was ok. This is many years later now, but he was defensively good and good from the corner.

He actually wasn't good defensively, that's one of the biggest missconceptions out there.......

Well that's just crazy talk. He didn't have staggering stats, but he was a great man-on defender. Hard-nosed and and really wore his man down physically and mentally.

No, he didn't...... People just have fond memories of him for some reason.......

kebutah · Post #11 » by **kebutah** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:38 pm

He was a better defender than Giricek but not an elite defender. He has a rep because he wasn't afraid to mix it up. He never was a lock down stopper. When he was here opposing SGs scored a ton of points.

QuantumMacgyver · Post #12 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:12 pm

He didn't have incredible stats but he was a difference maker. Like Harpring a few years ago, players hated playing against him cuz he wore them down. Him and Wes do have a lot of similarities. I'd say physically Wes and Raja are very similar defensively, but mentally Raja has always been great at getting under players skin. Look at Kobe and him. How many times have you ever seen Kobe get so frustrated by another player. And that made a difference in that series, not enough of a difference, but no one can STOP Kobe.

Saying Raja Bell wasn't a good defender is like saying Bruce Bowen was a good defender. They were far more effective than their stats would propose.

erudite23 · Post #13 » by **erudite23** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:25 pm

He wasn't that good defensively for us, but once he went to the Suns and became part of a contender and filled the role of defensive ace for them, he became much better. One of the reasons why you can never evaluate a player in a vacuum, circumstance has far too much to do with performance. I didn't like him much when he was here, but he was a much better player for Phoenix. If he could give us similar production to what he did in his prime Phoenix days I would love to have him. Not likely, though.

red4hf · Post #14 » by **red4hf** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:01 am

I love the argument "His stats didn't show his true value", that's another way of saying "I really don't have any EVIDENCE to back up what I'm saying, but I'm going to go ahead and argue it anyway."

Bruce Bowen is an aberration, as far as stats go....... Raja Bell isn't...... He just isn't that good......

In fact, the two seasons he was in Utah, the Jazz did better defensively when he wasn't on the court...... You can find the numbers at www.82games.com......

But, I'm sure all of his defenders are going to find a way not to believe actual numbers........

QuantumMacgyver · Post #15 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:47 am

red4hf wrote:I love the argument "His stats didn't show his true value", that's another way of saying "I really don't have any EVIDENCE to back up what I'm saying, but I'm going to go ahead and argue it anyway."

Bruce Bowen is an aberration, as far as stats go....... Raja Bell isn't...... He just isn't that good......

In fact, the two seasons he was in Utah, the Jazz did better defensively when he wasn't on the court...... You can find the numbers at http://www.82games.com......

But, I'm sure all of his defenders are going to find a way not to believe actual numbers........

82games.com is a great site and anyone interested in basketball should check it out. Really great stuff. However, it isn't the end all and be all.
Raja Bell 03-04
On Court +/-
-1.7
Off Court +/-
-0.7
Team Net +/-
-1.0

It's worth noting the following stats as well
On Court +/-
+23.5
Off Court +/-
-1.4
Team Net +/-
+24.9

Whose stats are these? Micheal Jordan's? Karl Malone's? LeBron James'? Nope. The one and only Keon Clark.

This is the perfect example of how stats can be deceiving. Useful, but can be deceiving.

As far as your EVIDENCE goes. There is an old saying, "The proof is in the pudding". If Raja Bell "just isn't that good" why would every team he plays for consistently put him on the opposing teams best player?

No one here is trying to say that Raja Bell was the defensive player of the year caliber, but he was a solid defender, and it never hurts to have a guy like Raja Bell on your roster.

red4hf · Post #16 » by **red4hf** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:14 am

That's a garbage argument right there...... Clark played TWO GAMES........ Bell played TWO SEASONS......

That's the best you've got? Really?????

Look at the numbers, both seasons Bell played in Utah, the Jazz did better defensively when Giricek was on the court.......

Make of that what you will, most people would not say that Giricek was a good defensive player, and yet he was btter than Raja.......

QuantumMacgyver · Post #17 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:20 am

red4hf wrote:That's a garbage argument right there...... Clark played TWO GAMES........ Bell played TWO SEASONS......

That's the best you've got? Really?????

Look at the numbers, both seasons Bell played in Utah, the Jazz did better defensively when Giricek was on the court.......

Make of that what you will, most people would not say that Giricek was a good defensive player, and yet he was btter than Raja.......

No thats not the best I've got, but I don't really care to dive into it any deeper. All I'm saying is that stats are not everything. A wise man once said "Stats are the only stat that matters.". If you really think Giricek was a better defender than the point it moot, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I'd rather have Raja than Giricek any day... and both the Jazz and Phoenix would second the sentiment.

HE Pennypacker · Post #18 » by **HE Pennypacker** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:27 am

LMAO. Giricek was a terrible defender. He had the reputation of being a good one because 1) he moved around a lot on D and 2) he was a good defender when he was younger and playing in Europe.

stevebozell · Post #19 » by **stevebozell** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:37 am

HE Pennypacker wrote:LMAO. Giricek was a terrible defender. He had the reputation of being a good one

He did?? Thats worse than your constant airport sightings of players to be traded to our team.....get lost, troll.

And I liked Gira....at least a hell of alot more than overrated Raja.

tylero87 · Post #20 » by **tylero87** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:50 am

stevebozell wrote:
HE Pennypacker wrote:LMAO. Giricek was a terrible defender. He had the reputation of being a good one

He did?? Thats worse than your constant airport sightings of players to be traded to our team.....get lost, troll.

And I liked Gira....at least a hell of alot more than overrated Raja.

In Giri's defense he did manage to shut down Lebron James in a memorable Jazz victory 3 years ago.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Gordan Giricek smothered LeBron James throughout the fourth quarter and helped hold the Cleveland star to four points in the final period.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270214026