John Wall vs Evan Turner

pacersrule08 · Post #1 » by **pacersrule08** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:18 pm

why is evan turner not getting any love? He has better stats than wall. Why wouldnt we draft turner instead of wall?

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/26678/Evan_Turner

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/101095/John_Wall

Dunthreevy · Post #2 » by **Dunthreevy** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:01 am

pacersrule08 wrote:why is evan turner not getting any love? He has better stats than wall. Why wouldnt we draft turner instead of wall?

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/26678/Evan_Turner

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/101095/John_Wall

Because Wall is a PG (the position that we are in most need of). He's a freshman and already putting up the numbers that he is. He's shown the ability to put a team on his back and lead them. And he has the "it" factor.

Post #3 » by **PR07** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:24 am

Wall's a PG. We currently have Earl Watson as our starter. That pretty much says it all.

spudmonkey31 · Post #4 » by **spudmonkey31** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:20 am

PR07 wrote:Wall's a PG. We currently have Earl Watson as our starter. That pretty much says it all.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes- yes it does

basketballwacko2 · Post #5 » by **basketballwacko2** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:12 am

I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Turner but I have to agree that Wall would be the pick if we han the choice sad part is we likely won't get either. We need to tank, as bad as that sounds, I'd like to play the young guys, as soon as AJ comes back from his concussion and Tyler is able to play I'd be playing them big minutes it will only make them better next seasons and it doesn't matter if we win one more game this season. I'm thinking the top 4 draft picks look like this:

1. Wall
2. Turner
3. Cousins
4. Favors

If we can get in that top 4 we're ok.

DWCP2 · Post #6 » by **DWCP2** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:18 am

As much as I think John Wall can help this team with his passing ability, Let's face facts here. Outside of Magic Johnson and Chauncey Billups how many teams have won a championship with a PG as it's star. Think maybe one if that.

Turner on the other hand has the complete game and high basketball IQ that Bird covets grately. He's drafted with that same facet in mind each of the last two years and I doubt it will change. Right now only four players declaring have the high basketball IQ Bird covets in round 1. Turner of Ohio State, Greg Monroe of Georgetown, Patrick Patterson of Kentucky, and Elian Harris of Gonzaga.

Yep that's it!

Post #7 » by **Miller4ever** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:37 am

DWCP2 wrote:how many teams have won a championship with a PG as it's star.

Including The Pistons with Isiah Thomas, the Supersonics with Dennis Johnson, and a recent Finals MVP Tony Parker (fluke, but still.), and Magic and Billups, that makes 5 teams.

At the same time, I do see where you're coming from. However, we are looking to straight-up improve the team as much as we can. If that means taking a PG, so be it. Also, it's a TAD early to be thinking about the championship ramifications when you need to first be over .500, or at least in the playoffs.

DWCP2 · Post #8 » by **DWCP2** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:34 pm

Miller4ever wrote:
DWCP2 wrote:how many teams have won a championship with a PG as it's star.

Including The Pistons with Isiah Thomas, the Supersonics with Dennis Johnson, and a recent Finals MVP Tony Parker (fluke, but still.), and Magic and Billups, that makes 5 teams.

At the same time, I do see where you're coming from. However, we are looking to straight-up improve the team as much as we can. If that means taking a PG, so be it. Also, it's a TAD early to be thinking about the championship ramifications when you need to first be over .500, or at least in the playoffs.

I would be fearful of getting the no. 3 pick or lower in this draft. Outiside of Wall or Turner, I don't see how getting a big can help us. However, the current mock drafts are based on players likely to declare not have declared. Only New Jersey, Washington, and maybe Minnesota can do damage to the Pacers chances at Wall and Turner. Golden State, IMO, would be alienating Ellis if they took another guard in this draft.

I'd simply hate to select Cole Aldrich or another big that high when the Pacers already have Hibbert and need wing help opposite Granger or a point that can get guys the ball.

Post #9 » by **PR07** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:09 pm

DWCP2 wrote:As much as I think John Wall can help this team with his passing ability, Let's face facts here. Outside of Magic Johnson and Chauncey Billups how many teams have won a championship with a PG as it's star. Think maybe one if that.

True, but how many teams have won a championships with a PG group as bad as the Pacers? Maybe the Heat with Jason Williams and an over-the-hill Gary Payton, but that's probably it.

Post #10 » by **Miller4ever** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:27 pm

^^Lakers also. Way-old Fisher, Farmar, and Shannon Brown? At least J-Will and the Glove used to be all-stars.

8305 · Post #11 » by **8305** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:22 pm

I see Favors as a sleeper. Super atheletic bigs are just too rare. Unlike Cousins he's playing in a awful situation to showcase what he can do. The Draft Express scouting report indicates that he' a good guy, hard worker etc. Wall is still my number one for the Pacers but I'm not sure Favors isn't number two.

Post #12 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:20 am

I think right now we're all essentially in rough agreement that Wall would be our #1 choice and Evan Turner #2. Then, it looks like Cousins and Favors battle it out for the #3 and #4 spots, and I think we're all then not so excited for anything really after that. It's a big, tight drop off from there on down to around....8 or so.

I'd kill for either of Wall or Turner. Obviously, Wall would probably be the most intense change, as he'd be essentially our 1st PG we've had since the better days of Jamaal Tinsley, but in reality, since Mark Jackson. Turner would be a great combo 2 guy, that would be a great scorer next to Granger, and play in kind of a Brandon Roy type manner. He could help hide our lack of a PG pretty well. Then, either Favors or Cousins would probably make a great 3 man rotation with Hibbert and Hansbrough long-term as the big men (think Hansbrough as Dale Davis with a jumper, Hibbert as Smits, and Favors or Cousins as the Tony Davis who bounces back and forth between the 4 and 5 spots.

basketballwacko2 · Post #13 » by **basketballwacko2** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:37 am

If we wind up in 3rd and get Cousins I'm not gonna be complaining.

8305 · Post #14 » by **8305** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:56 am

I'm alot less high on Cousins than Favors. Can't see him playing effectively with Hibbert. Their combined lack of quickness would get abused in the quicker NBA of today. Favors is enough of an athlete to be effective at either position and would ultimately compliment anyone well. From an athletic perspective Favors is more along the lines of a young Jermaine. Still think he's a better option even than Turner. All that said, Larry's history might even point to Turner being his first choice.

In my mind Cousins is almost a non factor since the likelihood of us having the number four pick is probably less than 1 through 3. Once again looking at the Pacer's appreciation for more mature guys I wonder if they would like Aldrich better than Cousins? Aldrich is another guy I can't see playing next to Hibbert.

In the 5 to 10 range of picks the best I think we can hope for is either Wesley Johnson or Al Aminu.

DWCP2 · Post #15 » by **DWCP2** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:46 am

As much as Cousins or Favors could help, think trading down for Greg Monroe would be better. Draft express did a recent article comparing him to Mike Dunleavy with lateral defense.

jowglenn · Post #16 » by **jowglenn** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:10 am

DWCP2 wrote:Draft express did a recent article comparing him to Mike Dunleavy with lateral defense.

Interesting. But I'm not sure I want a guy who can't do anything except lateral defense.

DWCP2 · Post #17 » by **DWCP2** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:42 pm

jowglenn wrote:
DWCP2 wrote:Draft express did a recent article comparing him to Mike Dunleavy with lateral defense.

Interesting. But I'm not sure I want a guy who can't do anything except lateral defense.

Well the one weakness in Mike Dunleavy's game is his ability to move laterally on defense.

8305 · Post #18 » by **8305** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:23 am

DWCP2 wrote:As much as Cousins or Favors could help, think trading down for Greg Monroe would be better. Draft express did a recent article comparing him to Mike Dunleavy with lateral defense.

Don't think I can disagree with this sentiment strongly enough. The Pacers are already a team full of role players. They need another exceptional player. Whatever additional marginal value that could be obtained through a trade down would be inconsequencial. If you determine that Cousins or Favors are the superior talent that's who you take.

old rem · Post #19 » by **old rem** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:31 am

Frankly...not sold on Favors.....and Monroe will go top 8.

Aside from passing well, Dun and Monroe have little in common.

8305 · Post #20 » by **8305** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:49 pm

If we are comparing Favors, Monroe and Cousins I think everyone would agree that Favors is the superior athlete. He is playing in a lousy situation (bad guard play and the second best player on the team has a remarkably similar skill set to his own). Cousins and Monroe on the other hand are playing in ideal situations. Cousins benefits from outstanding guard play and Monroe playing in the Princeton offense gets to utilize his passing ability to the max.

If you are going to add a big who you hope will complement HIbbert and Hansbrough I think the athlete makes the most sense. I'm not sure you could even put Cousins and HIbbert on the floor together.

Monroe stikes me as a Channing Frye/Charlie Villenuava type. A big guy with really interesting skills but potentially lacking the more basic skills you need from a big (the ability to post up, rebound and block shots). I would want either Aminu or Wesley Johnson before Monroe another Granger type player as opposed to a soft big.