Bargnani vs. Blatche

[Ortho Stice]

Andray Blatche is Mark Blount, the sequel. Andrea Bargnani is a seven foot version of Eddie House. I would rather have Luc Mbah a Moute as my power forward, because his defense and intangibles are necessary for a championship team, yet he won't command a ridiculous salary, unlike Andr(ay, ea). There's a reason why the Bucks are on the verge of making the playoffs, and it's not because of Mr. .37% Shooting Cool Haircut, or a 35-year-old Jerry Stackhouse. It's because of grit, blood, sweat and tears.

Yea because Andray's 3 million dollar per year salary is really a drag on the Wizards cap.

Stupid post.

If I had said that Andray's salary was dragging the Wizards' cap, then maybe your reply would actually make sense, but I didn't. The Wizards' cap is firmly placed on its head, although a sudden gale is on the verge of pulling it off.



Nothing says vitality like an extremely long white beard. The Wizards were a truly doomed franchise from the start.

[yungal07]

Andray Blatche is Mark Blount, the sequel. Andrea Bargnani is a seven foot version of Eddie House. I would rather have Luc Mbah a Moute as my power forward, because his defense and intangibles are necessary for a championship team, yet he won't command a ridiculous salary, unlike Andr(ay, ea). There's a reason why the Bucks are on the verge of making the playoffs, and it's not because of Mr. .37% Shooting Cool Haircut, or a 35-year-old Jerry Stackhouse. It's because of grit, blood, sweat and tears.

Yea because Andray's 3 million dollar per year salary is really a drag on the Wizards cap.

Stupid post.

If I had said that Andray's salary was dragging the Wizards' cap, then maybe your reply would actually make sense, but I didn't. The Wizards' cap is firmly placed on its head, although a sudden gale is on the verge of pulling it off.



Nothing says vitality like an extremely long white beard. The Wizards were a truly doomed franchise from the start.

Oh I get it...you're the comic relief.

*ignores post*

[Ortho Stice]

*ignores post*

If you ignored the post, you wouldn't have read it and replied to it. Watch, you'll ignore this post as well, and then acknowledge what I said and reply to it.

Anyway, I know Blatche is getting paid three million this year. I can look up his contract just like everyone else who has the internet. I was implying that after given carte blanche on a terrible team, he'll put up big, yet empty statistics, and eventually get a large contract the next time he's up for one, and then they'll have a terrible contract on their hands. Look at Andris Biedrins. Samuel Dalembert. The Wizards are in trouble if Blatche keeps putting up big numbers. And he doesn't even need to put up big numbers -- he can put up 16 PPG and 9 RPG and he'll get a ridiculous contract. The Wizards should probably trade him this summer before it's too late.

[raps4life~]

It's clearly Bargnani, especially after 2 or so years since this poll was made. Anyhow, while Blatche is finally maturing and showing that he can put it all together, Bargnani has been playing at this level for a lot longer.

At what level? Bargnani has only done one thing at a high level, and that's shoot the basketball from the perimeter as a bigman. He literally does nothing else that would be considered at a high level – rebounding, defense, shotblocking, passing, post play, etc. I could go on.

Seriously, have you even watched Bargnani play? Because you are clearly spewing out crap from what you have "heard".

IMO, Bargs shooting isn't even that "great". Hes a good shooter. What makes him a really good player is his ability to drive, play in the post, and btw, his shotblocking IS AT A HIGH LEVEL. In the last 28 games, Bargs is averaging 2 blocks a game, which only a few players in the league are doing.

Man it pisses me off when people just say random ****, like "Bargs is just a great shooter, nothing else" when that couldn't be farther from the truth. Ah well, thats the interwebz for you.

[kcthekid]

Bargnani will be better in the future? LMAO

Bustnani has no game. All he does is hoist jump shots and nothing else. He can't rebound, can't defend, can't handle the ball, is soft as a cupcake, and has no post game despite being 7 feet tall. Even his name sounds soft.

Blatche has been head and shoulders better than that BUM. Defensively and on the boards, Blatche is AEONS better. Blatche can handle the ball too.

Dude was right when he said the comparison isn't close...Blatche is much better than the bust. Bargnani is arguably as bad as Kwame when it comes to being the worst #1 pick of all-time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70fELZPMQpg


ether

[Ripp]

Ripp, Gil still averaged 23 & 7 even with a very slow start and was finally starting to come on. Caron cant do anything but shoot jumpers at the 3 in Flip's styem. I thought he may have played alot better at the 2 but Flip never went big. You cant act like he wasnt a beast at the 3 in EJ's system. I feel the same way about him in Dallas and I told them that. He wont be anything special at the 2 because his lack of handles but put him at the 3 and I bet he looks great again. AJ turned into a black hole. Either way, the system Offensivley was much better for all those guys in the Princeton. Flip doesnt even run that high screen/ pick & roll play that was the Wiz #1 play. Gil was like Wade and the other top guys where he would get one on one with the Center and kill them all day but the way Flip does it, the PG never gets one on one with the Center and he never really attacks it.

As for signing Gil, thats apples & oranges. Gil was already on the Wiz, not coming from a new team. When Gil got hurt, the Wiz were the #1 seed in the east the year before and he put fans in the seat. Brand never had any of that. Im not saying signing Brand was that bad of a move. Its just that you signed him and then got EJ. They dont match. Thats what Im saying with the Wiz. You have to get the players to match the Coaches system. Again, you make it sound like Im upset at the moves. Im not upset at all. I hated AJ and our local media always overhyping him as the greatest leader of All time and a straight pro when all he did was talk down on the young guys non stop and was the most selfish stat padder in the NBA. Meanwhile Caron wouldve done nothing here with Flip. Ive always wanted Blatche, McGee, and others to get there shot. I always felt that Howard would fit way better here than Caron and I loved Thorton in skool since I live in ACC Country

I'm from PG County, so I know how it is there too. The problem with the fan base is that they love Arenas too much, and don't realize that he is done as an impact player. The 23 and 7 he put up was with no defense, no explosion, and no efficiency. That sort of 23/7 will kill a team.

[Ripp]

*ignores post*

If you ignored the post, you wouldn't have read it and replied to it. Watch, you'll ignore this post as well, and then acknowledge what I said and reply to it.

Anyway, I know Blatche is getting paid three million this year. I can look up his contract just like everyone else who has the internet. I was implying that after given carte blanche on a terrible team, he'll put up big, yet empty statistics, and eventually get a large contract the next time he's up for one, and then they'll have a terrible contract on their hands. Look at Andris Biedrins. Samuel Dalembert. The Wizards are in trouble if Blatche keeps putting up big numbers. And he doesn't even need to put up big numbers -- he can put up 16 PPG and 9 RPG and he'll get a ridiculous contract. The Wizards should probably trade him this summer before it's too late.

See, this "big numbers on a bad team" argument is just stupid. If you put up big EFFICIENT numbers as the FIRST option on a bad team, then you are genuinely a gem. It is too simplistic to say big numbers on bad team = scrub.

[Dagger Three]

Bargnani will be better in the future? LMAO

Bustnani has no game. All he does is hoist jump shots and nothing else. He can't rebound, can't defend, can't handle the ball, is soft as a cupcake, and has no post game despite being 7 feet tall. Even his name sounds soft.

Blatche has been head and shoulders better than that BUM. Defensively and on the boards, Blatche is AEONS better. Blatche can handle the ball too.

Dude was right when he said the comparison isn't close...Blatche is much better than the bust. Bargnani is arguably as bad as Kwame when it comes to being the worst #1 pick of all-time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70fELZPMQpg


ether

LOL...it's funny that he was so wrong. Bargnani is actually head and shoulders above Blatche right now. Far more proven, despite Blatche's recent stretch of good play.

[Zarko]

Blatche impressed me, but his basketball IQ is pretty low.

He was killing the Raptors for the most part, but he had a few headscratchers.

The other night he pulled up for a 3? Does he have that range? Not that I know of.

Anyway, I don't know how anyone takes Blatche over Bargs. The only thing Blatche has on Bargs is rebounding, and you can improve on rebounding, not on bball iq.

[Dagger Three]

I don't know why everyone is speaking of Blatche so highly. he puts up a measly 6.5 and 4. He's 6"11 so why don't you look at his statistics before saying its pathetic for a 7 footer to only get 3.5 rebounds. I guarantee Bargnani will be at 20 and 7 in 2 years once he gets comfortable in the NBA. You have to take in account that this is his first season playing center and he's still learning the position. Let's make ths comparison again in a few years and I think it will be a lot more fair.

This one was pretty much bang on.

[dlts20]

Blatche impressed me, but his basketball IQ is pretty low.

He was killing the Raptors for the most part, but he had a few headscratchers.

The other night he pulled up for a 3? Does he have that range? Not that I know of.

Anyway, I don't know how anyone takes Blatche over Bargs. The only thing Blatche has on Bargs is rebounding, and you can improve on rebounding, not on bball iq.

His IQ is not low. He was just young at 1st and then he always had to give in to the stars on the team which forced him to play outside alot and so on. If you watch him now then he hardly ever makes any bad decisions and yes he does have 3pt range. He's not Bargs but if he takes a 3 then no one who has seen him play will be like "NOOOOO"! He can make that shot. Infact, he use to be criticized even this year for just being on the perimiter and not on the block. His response always was that he's not afraid to go down low but when he does, he never gets the ball and he was right. Now with those guys gone, he's scoring mostly on the block and taking the J when its there

[dlts20]

Ripp, Gil still averaged 23 & 7 even with a very slow start and was finally starting to come on. Caron cant do anything but shoot jumpers at the 3 in Flip's styem. I thought he may have played alot better at the 2 but Flip never went big. You cant act like he wasnt a beast at the 3 in EJ's system. I feel the same way about him in Dallas and I told them that. He wont be anything special at the 2 because his lack of handles but put him at the 3 and I bet he looks great again. AJ turned into a black hole. Either way, the system Offensivley was much better for all those guys in the Princeton. Flip doesnt even run that high screen/ pick & roll play that was the Wiz #1 play. Gil was like Wade and the other top guys where he would get one on one with the Center and kill them all day but the way Flip does it, the PG never gets one on one with the Center and he never really attacks it.

As for signing Gil, thats apples & oranges. Gil was already on the Wiz, not coming from a new team. When Gil got hurt, the Wiz were the #1 seed in the east the year before and he put fans in the seat. Brand never had any of that. Im not saying signing Brand was that bad of a move. Its just that you signed him and then got EJ. They dont match. Thats what Im saying with the Wiz. You have to get the players to match the Coaches system. Again, you make it sound like Im upset at the moves. Im not upset at all. I hated AJ and our local media always overhyping him as the greatest leader of All time and a straight pro when all he did was talk down on the young guys non stop and was the most selfish stat padder in the NBA. Meanwhile Caron wouldve done nothing here with Flip. Ive always wanted Blatche, McGee, and others to get there shot. I always felt that Howard would fit way better here than Caron and I loved Thorton in skool since I live in ACC Country

I'm from PG County, so I know how it is there too. The problem with the fan base is that they love Arenas too much, and don't realize that he is done as an impact player. The 23 and 7 he put up was with no defense, no explosion, and no efficiency. That sort of 23/7 will kill a team.

I just dont think thats fair to say. You act like he didnt miss 2 years. He was just starting to find his groove. I admit that he has no lift & explosin but I honestly think that a 3rd of that was real, another 3rd was mental, and another 3rd was physical but will come back next year like it does with alot of guys in there 2nd season back. Basically I think he may lose some of it but he will look alot more explosive next year and he's going to be in his prime mentally. I just think next year may be the best Arenas of all because of that and it would be a horrible move to try to get rid of that. Team him with Blatche & maybe McGee and I think he will play great. I mean, his turnovers dropped alot as the season went on and his shooting percentage was mostly bad due to all the times he couldnt finish in the paint. I think he will be better at that next year and he also will be better because the big 2 are gone and the team takes better shots now

[Ortho Stice]

If you put up big EFFICIENT numbers as the FIRST option on a bad team, then you are genuinely a gem.

And you're also a gem if you put up big stats for 4 games.

[nate33]

If you put up big EFFICIENT numbers as the FIRST option on a bad team, then you are genuinely a gem.

And you're also a gem if you put up big stats for 4 games.

Pace-adjusted per 36 numbers for the season:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.2  8.6  2.0  1.3  1.5  2.4 .493 .532 17.0
bargnani,andrea 18.0  6.5  1.1  0.3  1.6  1.5 .529 .561 16.2

Blatche averaged 23 minutes, Bargnani 35.

I'll readily cede that it's more difficult to produce over 35 minutes a game, but can we please drop this notion that Blatche has only produced in 4 games. He has been putting up solid numbers all year on a per-minute basis. He just has had the misfortune of playing behind the two best players on the team (Haywood and Jamison), which curtailed his minutes. Indeed, when Jamison has been out and Blatche has been forcefed more minutes, he has actually played dramatically better.

Over the the first 10 games of the season (Jamison missed the first 9), Blatche posted the following per-36 numbers

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.7  7.9  2.1  0.6  1.9  1.9 .529 .567 19.1

Actual minutes played: 29

Over the past 10 games (I can't do just the 4 as a starter), Blatche's pace-adjusted per-36 numbers are:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  23.4  9.4  1.8  1.8  1.2  1.8 .560 .610 28.0

Actual minutes played: 27

So basically, Blatche has posted a PER of around 22-24 in games when he has been forcefed minutes due to the absence of Jamison.

[no D in Hibachi]

Nate has done it again. Once again proving why he's the authoritative source of all basketball related discussions, debates, or arguments. Everyone must stand down to Nate!

[highlightstick]

Bargnani will be better in the future? LMAO

Bustnani has no game. All he does is hoist jump shots and nothing else. He can't rebound, can't defend, can't handle the ball, is soft as a cupcake, and has no post game despite being 7 feet tall. Even his name sounds soft.

Blatche has been head and shoulders better than that BUM. Defensively and on the boards, Blatche is AEONS better. Blatche can handle the ball too.

Dude was right when he said the comparison isn't close...Blatche is much better than the bust. Bargnani is arguably as bad as Kwame when it comes to being the worst #1 pick of all-time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70fELZPMQpg


ether

lmaooo, I was at that game too.

Hey, that's fine if the league wants to keep thinking Bargs is soft with no interior defense...just don't let the door hit you on the way out of the ACC when he repeatedly rejects and shuts you out down the stretch.

[Relentless88]

If you put up big EFFICIENT numbers as the FIRST option on a bad team, then you are genuinely a gem.

And you're also a gem if you put up big stats for 4 games.

Pace-adjusted per 36 numbers for the season:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.2  8.6  2.0  1.3  1.5  2.4 .493 .532 17.0
bargnani,andrea 18.0  6.5  1.1  0.3  1.6  1.5 .529 .561 16.2

Blatche averaged 23 minutes, Bargnani 35.

I'll readily cede that it's more difficult to produce over 35 minutes a game, but can we please drop this notion that Blatche has only produced in 4 games. He has been putting up solid numbers all year on a per-minute basis. He just has had the misfortune of playing behind the two best players on the team (Haywood and Jamison), which curtailed his minutes. Indeed, when Jamison has been out and Blatche has been forcefed more minutes, he has actually played dramatically better.

Over the the first 10 games of the season (Jamison missed the first 9), Blatche posted the following per-36 numbers

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.7  7.9  2.1  0.6  1.9  1.9 .529 .567 19.1

Actual minutes played: 29

Over the past 10 games (I can't do just the 4 as a starter), Blatche's pace-adjusted per-36 numbers are:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  23.4  9.4  1.8  1.8  1.2  1.8 .560 .610 28.0

Actual minutes played: 27

So basically, Blatche has posted a PER of around 22-24 in games when he has been forcefed minutes due to the absence of Jamison.

Don't compare PER 36 when Bargs actually averaged 36 while Blatche averaged 23 minutes. That's pretty weak to show that kind of argument.

[raps4life~]

And you're also a gem if you put up big stats for 4 games.

Pace-adjusted per 36 numbers for the season:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.2  8.6  2.0  1.3  1.5  2.4 .493 .532 17.0
bargnani,andrea 18.0  6.5  1.1  0.3  1.6  1.5 .529 .561 16.2

Blatche averaged 23 minutes, Bargnani 35.

I'll readily cede that it's more difficult to produce over 35 minutes a game, but can we please drop this notion that Blatche has only produced in 4 games. He has been putting up solid numbers all year on a per-minute basis. He just has had the misfortune of playing behind the two best players on the team (Haywood and Jamison), which curtailed his minutes. Indeed, when Jamison has been out and Blatche has been forcefed more minutes, he has actually played dramatically better.

Over the the first 10 games of the season (Jamison missed the first 9), Blatche posted the following per-36 numbers

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  16.7  7.9  2.1  0.6  1.9  1.9 .529 .567 19.1

Actual minutes played: 29

Over the past 10 games (I can't do just the 4 as a starter), Blatche's pace-adjusted per-36 numbers are:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
blatche,andray  23.4  9.4  1.8  1.8  1.2  1.8 .560 .610 28.0

Actual minutes played: 27

So basically, Blatche has posted a PER of around 22-24 in games when he has been forcefed minutes due to the absence of Jamison.

Don't compare PER 36 when Bargs actually averaged 36 while Blatche averaged 23 minutes. That's pretty weak to show that kind of argument.

This. I could take Rasho's numbers and PER 36, he would look better than Blatche.

[nate33]

Don't compare PER 36 when Bargs actually averaged 36 while Blatche averaged 23 minutes. That's pretty weak to show that kind of argument.

This. I could take Rasho's numbers and PER 36, he would look better than Blatche.

Jeez, you Raps fans are unbelievable. It's like talking to a brick wall.

What part of, "I'll readily cede that it's more difficult to produce over 35 minutes per game," do you not understand?

The fact is, Blatche has not played 36 minutes so it's impossible to directly compare his stats to Bargs' stats. The best we can do is either: (A) only look at the games where Jamison was absent; or (B) extrapolate Blatche's production over 36 minutes. I attempted to do both in my post. Neither analysis is perfect, but both are better than simply looking at averages without factoring minutes.

I never even concluded that Blatche was better, I just put out the data for people to draw their own conclusions. My only conclusion was that Blatche isn't some kind of sucky backup. He's a starting caliber player who happened to be stuck behind two other starting-caliber players.

[Ripp]

I made a big long post and something happened to it.

Anyway, these "we can't use Blatche per/36 stats" arguments are silly. It is logical to question the stats of a guy who only plays 10 minutes a game. Then you might question whether he can produce those stats in 36 minutes a game. But...we've SEEN what Blatche can with starter's minutes. In fact, he does BETTER (per minute) with starter's minutes than with limited minutes.


One thing to keep in mind...he is already a better rebounder and passer than Bargs (in fact, he is a phenomenal passing big man.) So the only question left (ignoring defense, temporarily) is who is a better scorer.

I've watched Bargs all season and Blatche since the Minnesota game. if Blatche puts together another 8-10 game stretch of excellent play, I'd feel comfortable saying he is a better scorer than Bargs, and thus a better player overall.