2010 Draft prospects

[Bartender]

A lot of people on another Lions board I'm on is leaning for McCoy over Suh cuz we already have our clogger in Grady Jackson and SLH.

Idk who I'd rather have, tbh. A pass rusher of McCoy's caliber would be nice, but who says Suh can't pass rush?

[Liqourish]

It comes down to this.... Ndamukong Suh is the best player in the draft. If the Lions do as they say, they take Suh if he's available.

TBH, my dream scenario would be to trade Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brown, and change to the Rams for #1 and take Suh AND McCoy but I know there is no way in hell the Lions would want to pay two top picks in the season before an uncapped year. But damn, I can dream about them up front for the Lions for the nest 6-10 years.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER base my draft decisions on Grady Jackson or SLH. Give me a break.

[ajaX82]

I think Suh can pass rush though. draftscout.com has some real nice profiles of all the picks and their strenghts and weaknesses

Pass rush: Top-notch pass rusher with ideal height and length to affect passing lanes and wrap up quarterbacks. Constantly works forward until the ball is out of the quarterback's hand. Uses strong, active hands to jerk his man aside and keep blockers off-balance. Spins off single blocks and is quick enough to get into the pocket. Also able to split double-teams to at least get a hand in the quarterback's face. Recognizes screens quickly -- comes off pass rush to get to the ball or the sideline. Good awareness to get his hands up in passing lane to knock down passes. Has fair hands for the interception, especially given his size. Greatly increased his conditioning and stamina as a senior and seemed capable of playing every down. Difficult for right tackles to handle one-on-one on the edge as a 3-4 defensive end because of his strength and athleticism. Dropped into coverage at times and shows surprising agility and awareness.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... g=untagged

thats the pass rush report on Suh. check out the site though if you want a decent profile of the players. good stuff there.

Dammit Ajax, I was typing as you posted!!

ha, it appears we are on the same wavelength .

And i also would not base any decisions on Grady Jackson or SLH either. BPA all the way. You build your team around one of these two and let SLH adjust

[Liqourish]

Suh is a good pass rusher, McCoy is just known for it more since it's where he excels. Suh pretty much excels at everything.

I've been high on Suh for a long time. IIRC, I'm the first one to post about him on this forum MONTHS ago. His footwork and active hands are what sets him apart. It's not even his size or strength. He never stops moving. He never gives up on a play. He's just a difference maker out there.

Most people didn't know alot about him until the game against Texas Tech and Colt McCoy. Some of these people seem to be in the "Gerald is better" camp. I've been watching Suh for the past two years and I have never seen anyone do what he does on a game to game basis. He's so unique (with his size, strength, agility) that it's hard to find an adequate comparison.

If he's available... he HAS to be the pick.

[Bartender]

I think this is a perfect comparison.

Suh is Shaq
McCoy is Tim Duncan

One dominates... the other finesses... both is extremely efficient.

Does anybody besides Liq disagree with this? lol

[Liqourish]

lmao..... just trying to keep me out of the discussion!! dictator!!

[TSE]

I think this is a perfect comparison.

Suh is Shaq
McCoy is Tim Duncan

One dominates... the other finesses... both is extremely efficient.

Does anybody besides Liq disagree with this? lol

Shaq is huge in size and power, Suh is not huge and not strong like people sometimes say he is. Cody in this draft is an example of a big DT or maybe Cam Thomas. Landon Cohen on our team is an example of a strong DT. Show me a link anywhere that verifies Suh has impressive strength, you won't find it because he is not a strong guy. Strong enough, but not remarkably strong like Cohen or Manny Ramirez are. Those 2 guys would break his arm in an arm wrestling match. Suh is a weakling compared to these 2 dudes.

I would say Suh is like Tim Duncan, and McCoy is like somebody else, maybe Will Bynum? lol i dunno I'd have to think about that one.

[TSE]

edit: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... ng-at-no-2

heres the link to the story. its just one value chart and can vary greatly im sure. again, just a baseline here

Sorry, NFL pick charts are a pet peeve of mine. When somebody talks about them positively or tries to pass them off as useful for evaluating trades, then I go after them. That's blasphemy as far as I'm concerned. I hate it when people bring up these old charts. They weren't even highly accurate in the first year that they were conceived and now it is an absurd joke that just confuses fans.

[Piston Pete]

Interesting tidbit.....sorry if someone already hit on this. As far as safties go, Mayock has Eric Berry rated BEHIND Earl Thomas....

[Liqourish]

The comparison comes from bar trying to convince me that McCoy is a skilled player and Suh gets by on just throwing guys around. Shaq dominated because he was bigger than everyone but possessed very little skill (offensively).

I disagree completely that Suh is that type of player. His footwork and hands are incredible. He can knock guys down, but he doesn't overpower them, he outmanuvers them. He creates leverage with his legs and continues to move guys when going up the middle. He also has the ability to spin outside or stand back and deflect passes.

The McCoy is better group have made it their agenda to make the case that McCoy is a pass rusher and so Suh isn't. And it's just not the case.

They are very close. Very very close. Suh is just better is a variety of ways. So McCoys people are trying to take one aspect and run with it.

[Bartender]

I think this is a perfect comparison.

Suh is Shaq
McCoy is Tim Duncan

One dominates... the other finesses... both is extremely efficient.

Does anybody besides Liq disagree with this? lol

Shaq is huge in size and power, Suh is not huge and not strong like people sometimes say he is. Cody in this draft is an example of a big DT or maybe Cam Thomas. Landon Cohen on our team is an example of a strong DT. Show me a link anywhere that verifies Suh has impressive strength, you won't find it because he is not a strong guy. Strong enough, but not remarkably strong like Cohen or Manny Ramirez are. Those 2 guys would break his arm in an arm wrestling match. Suh is a weakling compared to these 2 dudes.

I would say Suh is like Tim Duncan, and McCoy is like somebody else, maybe Will Bynum? lol i dunno I'd have to think about that one.

Suh's not strong? Suh is known to have tremendous strength. That's his move. Engaging in arms and tossing guards to the left or right. Find me one scouting report that says that Suh's strength isn't tremendous.

[ajaX82]

I think this is a perfect comparison.

Suh is Shaq
McCoy is Tim Duncan

One dominates... the other finesses... both is extremely efficient.

Does anybody besides Liq disagree with this? lol

Shaq is huge in size and power, Suh is not huge and not strong like people sometimes say he is. Cody in this draft is an example of a big DT or maybe Cam Thomas. Landon Cohen on our team is an example of a strong DT. Show me a link anywhere that verifies Suh has impressive strength, you won't find it because he is not a strong guy. Strong enough, but not remarkably strong like Cohen or Manny Ramirez are. Those 2 guys would break his arm in an arm wrestling match. Suh is a weakling compared to these 2 dudes.

I would say Suh is like Tim Duncan, and McCoy is like somebody else, maybe Will Bynum? lol i dunno I'd have to think about that one.

Suh's not strong? Suh is known to have tremendous strength. That's his move. Engaging in arms and tossing guards to the left or right. Find me one scouting report that says that Suh's strength isn't tremendous.

This is from the link i cited above, talking about Suhs strength

Strength: Strong bull rush to push the pocket, even when double-teamed. Able to rip off his man with upper-body strength and hands, freeing himself to make a play. Greatly improved his strength against the run in 2009. Used as a goal-line fullback because he gets low enough to push the pile.

Sounds strong to me. He isnt a mountain moving NT, but he certainly has the strength to play DT and play it well

[TSE]

Interesting tidbit.....sorry if someone already hit on this. As far as safties go, Mayock has Eric Berry rated BEHIND Earl Thomas....

Well I can't argue with that, Earl Thomas is a studly player and all he does is make plays and win games. He's the best PD machine in this draft.

[TSE]

I think this is a perfect comparison.

Suh is Shaq
McCoy is Tim Duncan

One dominates... the other finesses... both is extremely efficient.

Does anybody besides Liq disagree with this? lol

Shaq is huge in size and power, Suh is not huge and not strong like people sometimes say he is. Cody in this draft is an example of a big DT or maybe Cam Thomas. Landon Cohen on our team is an example of a strong DT. Show me a link anywhere that verifies Suh has impressive strength, you won't find it because he is not a strong guy. Strong enough, but not remarkably strong like Cohen or Manny Ramirez are. Those 2 guys would break his arm in an arm wrestling match. Suh is a weakling compared to these 2 dudes.

I would say Suh is like Tim Duncan, and McCoy is like somebody else, maybe Will Bynum? lol i dunno I'd have to think about that one.

Suh's not strong? Suh is known to have tremendous strength. That's his move. Engaging in arms and tossing guards to the left or right. Find me one scouting report that says that Suh's strength isn't tremendous.

Yeah Suh is strong, compared to me, or compared to my mother, or compared to any of my friends or anybody that I know maybe. But for an NFL DT he does not have impressive strength. He has average strength or just a little above average, so you can say he has good strength, but to say he has great strength or any word that has more magnitude than a simple "good" is just being inaccurate. If you want Suh, you should draft him for reasons other than strength, cause that's his weakness to me. Size and strength are the 2 biggest question marks for this player. At least if you want to continue talking about him as the greatest DT prospect that has come along in a long time.

[TSE]

Strength: Strong bull rush to push the pocket, even when double-teamed. Able to rip off his man with upper-body strength and hands, freeing himself to make a play. Greatly improved his strength against the run in 2009. Used as a goal-line fullback because he gets low enough to push the pile.

Well the issue here might be that you are inexperienced in reading scouting reports and you are interpreting things in a way that doesn't fit with this person's review. First thing is a "strong bull rush", he's talking about a particular move, why? Shouldn't all of his moves be strong if he's strong? He just happened to single out that ONE technique that he has done well. If he was truly strong, the review would say something like "he's a strong MAN" and "dominates players because of his massive strength" and stuff like that.

Then the next part says "able" to do that. Well being able to do something means he's not doing it all the time, and insinuates that he doesn't do it often. Otherwise I would say he's "unstoppable due to strength", and "always beats his man physically due to being exceptionally powerful" and stuff like that. Any DT in the NFL is "able" to rip off his man with strength, that's a requirement to even play in the league to have that ability. The great ones do it regularly and often and this review doesn't say that he does that.

Next, he greatly improved his strength. What does that tell you? He was weak to begin with. Sounds like we are dealing with a guy who isn't naturally strong or conditioned to be strong in the first 20 years of his life. That comment that he improved his strength just serves as a negative in my mind. Now I'm not actually going to hold that against Suh because this is just one guy's review who I'm sure is a lousy scout as you can tell by his lame review which sucks. This is obviously written by a guy who doesn't truly understand the game and is just trying to make up things that sound like they should fit. Either way, the ideal NFL DT is a guy that has been much stronger naturally and for his whole life and continues to develop and then hopefully become Landon Cohen strong. That's what you want for strength. Suih is playing catch up, and he might not have much higher of a ceiling from where he's at now.

And the final part says he is good at getting low. It doesn't say he plays FB because he's strong and he annihilates people with power, it's applauding his technique. The arm rip comment is also technique-based, not strength-based as well. There's nothing in this guy's review that makes me think of Suh as a strong player if I never saw him play and only had this review to go on. This review sounds like a weak player that has good technique. But the review sucks anyhow.

[Bartender]

Lol shut up. What is a bull rush? If you have a strong bull rush, you are a strong man cuz if you are able to bull rush strongly, that means that you are running over guards.... which is strength.

TSE, just admit that you know nothing about the guy and you were talking out of your as* to sound 'smart'.

[Bartender]

Terrence Cody weighed in at 352 pounds yesterday!!!

He was 372 at weigh in's at the senior bowl and still was one of the bright spots of the practices and the game. He dropped 20 pounds in the last 2-3 weeks. Ridiculous!

[Bartender]

Russel Okung did 38 reps on the bench press. That is awesome considering his extremely long arms.

Mitch Petrus did 43 reps.

Those were the first and second out of all OLineman.

If we were going all trenches in this draft, I might possibly have to do it like this:

!. Okung
2. Cody
3. Petrus
4. Hardy
5. Jerry
5. Best lineman available
6. Best lineman available

[Piston Pete]

Is there a site that is updating the combine results?

[TSE]

Lol shut up. What is a bull rush? If you have a strong bull rush, you are a strong man cuz if you are able to bull rush strongly, that means that you are running over guards.... which is strength.

TSE, just admit that you know nothing about the guy and you were talking out of your as* to sound 'smart'.

You are very ignorant, you don't understand very much about sports or logic. First of all, I don't have to know anything about Suh to comment on his strength. I have looked up his previous stats of weightlifting and that's how I knew he wasn't strong, it's a fact that he doesn't rank high in strength compared to his NFL peers, and you are acting like I don't know much about the player when I haven't even talked about anything about the player other than his strength issue which is objective and provable. If you don't have anything halfway intelligent or coherent to say, then I just recommend that you don't communicate with me so that you can avoid embarrassment, oh and so you can avoid looking like a jerk for giving good people a hard time with garbage posts that don't make any sense. How dare you talk like that to somebody of my football knowledge supremacy. Get lost and come back when you have learned the game along with some common sense and manners!