Knicks vs Washington Game Thread

[dobrojim]

Blatche's energy was down and he just seemed really fatigued from early on physically & mentally. He made alot of dumb mistakes tonight that he never made in the other games. In the other games he knew what he wanted to do from the jump and all his post moves were perfect. Tonight he did the wrong thing on just about every post move. I guess thats just the kid learning more but moreso I think the bigger role/minutes may be starting to take a toll on him some. The bad part is that we are getting more injuries so he will probably have to play more and do more for us to have a chance to compete. I still love the way he's so willing to pass though, unlike AJ

sure he had a ton of TOs but he couldn't have done 'wrong thing on every post move' and
still had the kind of game he had. Without Howard, Singleton and AT in foul trouble,
the Nix knew where to focus their D. He'll get better and he damn well better start
getting more ref respect.

[Hoopalotta]

He damn well better start getting more ref respect.

Yeah exactly, once the Refs receive the "Dray Blatche can actually score" memo, some of those turnovers will turn into foul calls against the bad guys.

[dobrojim]

just checked out the box score

Dray played 51 freakin' minutes.
If he was tired, that's understandable.

[jimij]

Of course he was tired. As I said in the AB thread, its not even just the minutes, its the way he's being used. Since he's the focal point of the offense, he's constantly fighting in the post and dealing with double teams which he's never had to contend with. Plus, unlike a certain recently departed all-star, he still expends lots of energy on D.

Blatche struggled on D, and was reduced to a passer on offense late in the game, but still, considering that there were literally no other guys on the court that the Knicks were concerned about, he had a pretty strong game overall turnovers not withstanding and as others have mentioned, he still gets zero respect from the refs.

[closg00]

Too-bad Al Harrington wasn't traded like the Knicks wanted to

[Consiglieri81]

I have to admit, I'm a bit with CCJ here. At this point in time, instead of focusing on what he's not doing right, we really need to appreciate the potential and hopefully the growth of McGee. Lets remember that he's basically rotted on the bench all year as we nose dived with the vets. He's a kid with loads of potential and it will take time, he basically was a raw one year starter in college when we got him. He's got a long ways to go, as Blatche did. Lets just praise the gods that we actually have him, and didnt dump Blatche for peanuts on the dollar like idiots like we could have. Instead we got rid of vets we were never gonna win with, and now at least have a couple of pieces to build around, and the loss last night gets us a little closer to a difference maker come june. In a lot of ways last nights loss can be a greater teacher than a victory, and that plus the very slight advantage it gains us in moving up for a potential higher pick is well worth the annoyance of another loss. This season and a chunk of our future was lost 9 months when we made a foolish trade. We shouldn't be quibbling or knit picking over a young building block when this is a miserable team regardless, and when we all understand that a great deal of our future success hinges on him going through these growing pains and learning from them.

Just my 2 cents. Hopefully it wont take him too long to grow up, but regardless this team is in for a long slow road back, so a loss here or there in the grand scheme of things shouldnt get us down.

[hands11]

How about the ball movement though, yeah?

It's like all the crap with the old team has been excised.

We got five assists out of Al Thornton! Not possible!

We need to stick with this identity, no matter what personnel decisions are made.

I'm just happy we have so many more games to play with these players. I think there is a lot more to see here.

Individually, we have a lot of athletic players who have upside. Only Blatche is near his max ability already. We have to get Singleton back. We can't afford to loose a player with his kind of game. Just a tough nosed dude that sparks the teams defensively.

It is possible that this team is already rebuilt with the exception of filling out the bench a little more. Given what I'm seeing, I think bringing back Gil would be a disaster. The ball moves to well with what we have. We are growing a team with no real ego centered stars and no terrible contracts and Flip seems to be in control. These guys are coachable.

We hit the reset button and I live the way this team is developing. Trying to mix Gil into this makes Zero sense. I would much rather bring in a Nash or Kidd. At that, a little more vet bench and another center and I think we are better then any playoff team we have seen the last 6 years.

[hands11]

Refs were just terrible.. Specially down the stretch.

For one thing. 1.4 second left on the clock after the 24 sec clock expired.

It should have had nothing to do with who called a time out and when.

They looked at the instant reply.. How do you miss that ?

[fishercob]

Refs were just terrible.. Specially down the stretch.

For one thing. 1.4 second left on the clock after the 24 sec clock expired.

It should have had nothing to do with who called a time out and when.

They looked at the instant reply.. How do you miss that ?

The only thing I can think of is that they ruled the Wiz had possession before the clock expired, which they didn't.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Love the way this team is playing, hopefully we can mix Gil in and still run smoothly. I know most of our guys that can score were out in OT, but a guy like Gil could have just taken over a game like this if he was needed.

[Kanyewest]

The only thing I can think of is that they ruled the Wiz had possession before the clock expired, which they didn't.

Blatche didn't have possession until 1.1 seconds. The Knicks started the possession with 25.5 seconds so the shot clock should have expired with 1.5 seconds. Granted, I'm surprised it took so long for the Wizard announcers to realize that this was a problem, so I guess it wasn't as obvious to the officials.

Thornton final foul was a pretty bad call well. Another dubious call was Foye not getting a foul call when driving to the basket with less than a minute to go. Or when McGee missed that free throw, and that phantom loose ball call was called.

Still, I think there were a lot of errors by Flip Saunders as well going into the overtime. Granted you want to play your best players on the court during the final 5 minutes, but some of them were due for a breather. Someone like Foye had been in the game since the 9:30 mark of the 4th quarter. Blatche never really got any rest, with the injury to Singleton and the foul trouble to other players. I think that 5 second violation was a result of players being tired and not running to get open.

BTW, I'm surprised Flip put Livingston into the game in OT to inbound the ball, which eventually resulted in a 5 second violation. That was a serious brain far by Saunders. I'm not intrigued by Livingston at this stage of his career, mostly because his inability to put the basket in the hoop. He shot this ugly mid-range jumper on one possession with significant time left on the shot clock.

[AceDegenerate]

Umm.. when was the last time a team with no ego won the championship?

Ohhh.. that's right everybody's favorite SPURS! AND PISTONS! 2 Flukes in down years for the NBA's true stars. Get off it. It's MUCH MORE likely to win in this league with a STAR player and EGOs than some NBDL team that passes the ball around for 24 seconds.

I get the frustration after watching 4 years of players ISO'ing and jacking up shots. However there is a happy medium somewhere in there where you can still have a STAR player to save your ass when your choir boys are dragging their ass on the floor behind them in OT.

[dobrojim]

your point being...

on the five sec call, SL had an open man, 7DD, but he hesitated.

[hands11]

Refs were just terrible.. Specially down the stretch.

For one thing. 1.4 second left on the clock after the 24 sec clock expired.

It should have had nothing to do with who called a time out and when.

They looked at the instant reply.. How do you miss that ?

The only thing I can think of is that they ruled the Wiz had possession before the clock expired, which they didn't.

But if they did, there should have even been more time on the clock. Like 2.4 seconds.

[Kanyewest]

your point being...

on the five sec call, SL had an open man, 7DD, but he hesitated.

Flip Saunders shouldn't have put Livingston in the game to inbound the ball especially since Livingston just signed with the team.

[montestewart]

your point being...

on the five sec call, SL had an open man, 7DD, but he hesitated.

Flip Saunders shouldn't have put Livingston in the game to inbound the ball especially since Livingston just signed with the team.

They lost Howard, Singleton, Thornton, and Miller, but really, that just screams "bad move."

[nate33]

I think Flip should use Oberto on inbound passes with just a couple of seconds on the clock. He's a good passer and has the size to see over the defense.

It wouldn't work with 4 or more seconds because Oberto isn't a threat to make a give-and-go play off the inbound pass; but it would be a good idea with 3 or fewer seconds left.

[montestewart]

I think Flip should use Oberto on inbound passes with just a couple of seconds on the clock. He's a good passer and has the size to see over the defense.

It wouldn't work with 4 or more seconds because Oberto isn't a threat to make a give-and-go play off the inbound pass; but it would be a good idea with 3 or fewer seconds left.

Good call: tall, good passer, has known his teammates for longer than a day.

[hands11]

I think Flip should use Oberto on inbound passes with just a couple of seconds on the clock. He's a good passer and has the size to see over the defense.

It wouldn't work with 4 or more seconds because Oberto isn't a threat to make a give-and-go play off the inbound pass; but it would be a good idea with 3 or fewer seconds left.

Send this to Flip. Berto can be our long snapper... everyone needs a job.

Not sure WTH flip was thinking putting in Livingston. Dude totally chocked. The more I think about that move the dumber it looks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have to admit, I'm a bit with CCJ here. At this point in time, instead of focusing on what he's not doing right, we really need to appreciate the potential and hopefully the growth of McGee. Lets remember that he's basically rotted on the bench all year as we nose dived with the vets. He's a kid with loads of potential and it will take time, he basically was a raw one year starter in college when we got him. He's got a long ways to go, as Blatche did. Lets just praise the gods that we actually have him, and didnt dump Blatche for peanuts on the dollar like idiots like we could have. Instead we got rid of vets we were never gonna win with, and now at least have a couple of pieces to build around, and the loss last night gets us a little closer to a difference maker come june. In a lot of ways last nights loss can be a greater teacher than a victory, and that plus the very slight advantage it gains us in moving up for a potential higher pick is well worth the annoyance of another loss. This season and a chunk of our future was lost 9 months when we made a foolish trade. We shouldn't be quibbling or knit picking over a young building block when this is a miserable team regardless, and when we all understand that a great deal of our future success hinges on him going through these growing pains and learning from them.

Just my 2 cents. Hopefully it wont take him too long to grow up, but regardless this team is in for a long slow road back, so a loss here or there in the grand scheme of things shouldnt get us down.

Consiglieri, thanks for reiterating the process under which Andray improved.

This is his 5th NBA season. Blatche just had the 7-day a week approach this offseason. The Wizards are fortunate they didn't let Blatche go.

Along with having a potentially great young PF signed cheaply, another advantage of sticking with Blatche is that McGee has a peer who's also a role model. Andray is straight up balling. McGee has clear proof that hard work and dedication pays off. He knows he's much more athletic than Andray. What McGee now can do is work on his strength and his skills.

McGee's confidence and timing will come naturally as he plays. Often, he'll be playing through mistakes. Defensive position is his biggest weakness, and so is his lack of strength. I feel McGee's got a lot more offensive skills than what he's showing so far.