OT - LeBron and Steroids?

[Anatomize]

I was having a recent debate with a few friends over whether LeBron is or is not taking steroids, and people seem pretty split on the issue (from a rather small sample size).

While I've heard many people dismiss the thought of NBA players taking steroids and other performance enhancers (HGH, Stanzanol, Winstrol, etc), is it really that far fetched? Today, we are presented with these super human beings with outer-worldly persona, muscle mass, talent, and marketability. Corporations have a strong influence on sports in general, and sports have become businesses concerned with generating profit; (David Stern has a marketing and business background), it would be entirely in their interest to keep something like this hidden.

With all the pressure bestowed upon athletes to be successful, make money, and perform in the spotlight, does it not at least seem feasible?

Recently (as of the 2008-2009 season), LeBron had a benign growth surgically removed from his jaw - seen here - you can read about the relationship between a benign growth and HGH here -

The most common disease of GH excess is a pituitary tumor composed of somatotroph cells of the anterior pituitary. These somatotroph adenomas are benign and grow slowly, gradually producing more and more GH. For years, the principal clinical problems are those of GH excess. Eventually the adenoma may become large enough to cause headaches, impair vision by pressure on the optic nerves, or cause deficiency of other pituitary hormones by displacement.

source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone - Some other known side effects of human growth hormone and steroids are an enlarged jaw bone and forehead (both of which appear to have enlarged over the course of his career).

Comparing LeBron's rookie year pictures to his muscle mass today seems unreal, (looking as big as DeMar DeRozan) I certainly won't argue he had the base in his rookie season to develop this type of muscle mass (it helps he has freak genetics). Just interesting to compare rookie/prime pics, it certainly doesn't look as bad as comparing Bonds/McGwire from their rookie season up to their prime and beyond in their late 30's.

The last thing to note is LeBron's recovery time compared to other athletes, while mental toughness (football past) may play a part in it, how many athletes can severely sprain an ankle, come back and run full sprints like a zebra while scoring and dunking at will?

The reason I wanted to start this thread is because recently versus the Raptors, when LeBron injured his knee and was down for a while, he was back in the game and playing like it never happened; where as someone like Melo in the playoffs last year was adversely affected by a sprained ankle (averaged around 17 ppg versus Kobe post ankle sprain, 30 ppg prior). You can see a few weeks back the injuries taking a toll on Kobe, KG, Pierce, and so on (even though some of them are up there in age and mileage), but LeBron seems to be on a whole other level. Iverson was a character who was able to survive many injuries and hard falls, so I am not discounting the fact that it can be complete heart and mental toughness.

Steroids were (and perhaps still are) prevalent in baseball and football, but we've rarely heard of cases in the NBA (other than supplements with ingredients used in steroids - see Rashard Lewis/Juan Dixon).

I am interested on your take of steroids in the NBA, and whether you believe LeBron is taking them (try to differentiate your logic and your feelings toward LeBron when assessing this).

PS. LeRoids?

[tosi]

I have no doubt in the fact that Lebron has taken Steroids, along with many players in the game. The fact is that it will happen with millions of dollars at stake. Hell most of the players you probably like take steroids. Hell I wish Bosh would take Steroids lol

[BigBuddha]

Thing is, if it is possible to roid in the NBA without being caught, wouldnt almost all players start doing it sooner or later.

[NetsForce]

Kobe Bryant doesn't take steroids he just devours souls.

[djsunyc]

Kobe Bryant doesn't take steroids he just devours souls.

lebron most definitely is taking some PED - probably HGH but possibly steroids too.

remember that year when kobe came back all jacked up and 15-20 pounds heavier? yeah, that was all natural.

these guys are pro athletes - they will do anything to get an advantage.

ben wallace most definitely was on something.

[Anatomize]

Thing is, if it is possible to roid in the NBA without being caught, wouldnt almost all players start doing it sooner or later.

Just a side note, I never will ever take away anything from LeBron's talent, he is one of the greatest players I've ever had a chance to watch (his IQ transcends any player in the league today in my opinion), this is more so about the athleticism/muscle mass/recovery time/minutes played/never seeming tired aspect of LeBron.

There are ways to bypass the tests, so it's hard not to rule it out, one of the major issues with baseball's recent testing program was that they believed Balco and other companies had already far advanced types of performance enhancers which could bypass the tests regularly.

[dacrusha]

[Anatomize]

^ That's really a minuscule difference, my dad works out regularly and he went from being that skinny to as jacked up as Bosh in the second pic, but LeBron saw a rather definitive massive muscle mass increase. Bosh still looks skinny on the court despite his muscular development.

[YogiStewart]

i want to say that guys like LBJ and D12 are on the juice simply because they are so bloody huge and there's a big jump from their rookie year muscle mass to the last few seasons.

but....

athletes (not baseball players because they are fat tubbytubtubs) are physical specimens. they are born with gifted genes.
they also spend their off season working out for a few hrs a day 5 days a week. how many of us do that?
they work out under guidance of athletic trainers (except JO who does the prison workout) and are likely eating correctly so they can maximize their muscle mass.
so perhaps their size is legit?

you can't just claim that someone's taking HGH or 'roids simply because they are cut.

[bychai]

It's tough to judge from these still photos of athletes in action while their muscles are all tensed up too... just look at joey from college:



YIKES... but he doesn't look like that ALL the time

but yeah i'd never rule out bron on something... he's ridiculous... and i noticed ankle rolls and things like that seemingly have no effect on him

maybe he's just an alien

[Anatomize]

i want to say that guys like LBJ and D12 are on the juice simply because they are so bloody huge and there's a big jump from their rookie year muscle mass to the last few seasons.

but....

athletes (not baseball players because they are fat tubbytubtubs) are physical specimens. they are born with gifted genes.
they also spend their off season working out for a few hrs a day 5 days a week. how many of us do that?
they work out under guidance of athletic trainers (except JO who does the prison workout) and are likely eating correctly so they can maximize their muscle mass.
so perhaps their size is legit?

you can't just claim that someone's taking HGH or 'roids simply because they are cut.

I presented it as evidence as a possible reason for why they may be taking roids, I never said it is absolute and I also stated he could be naturally cut.

There is nothing to explain his benign growth and superb recovery time other than using 'genetics' as one side of the argument, where as HGH and PED can be used as another argument. If you compare the size of athletes today to in Jordan's day, how many guys were as big back then as they are now? Nonetheless, there are many advances in the field, better machinery and science as far as breaking down muscles and strengthening muscle mass, and it's even noticeable in other sports such as the UFC where guys are regularly tested and are extremely cut.

I'll repeat, being cut or having increased muscle mass is not the sole reason for suspecting LeBron of doing roids, but a major increase in muscle mass can be suspect (see the difference between Bonds/McGwire/Sosa/Conseco in their rookie seasons compared to their prime/mid 30's, it's intense.

[somali]

I wouldn't be surprised if the NBA planned this all along before Lebron and Dwight were born, a project created by the NBA in order to attract more TV viewers and more people to come to the games and ultimately expand the game of basketball around the world. They were probably fed all kinds of chemicals their whole life to become athletic freaks and dominate in the NBA. Hence, David Sterns wish came true lol.

[Indiana Jones]

i doubt he's taking or has taken anything. just my opinion. he's always had a great base to build muscle, even when he was in high school.

[somali]

i doubt he's taking or has taken anything. just my opinion. he's always had a great base to build muscle, even when he was in high school.

In high school Lebron actually looked human, now he starting to look more like a robot.

[YogiStewart]

i want to say that guys like LBJ and D12 are on the juice simply because they are so bloody huge and there's a big jump from their rookie year muscle mass to the last few seasons.

but....

athletes (not baseball players because they are fat tubbytubtubs) are physical specimens. they are born with gifted genes.
they also spend their off season working out for a few hrs a day 5 days a week. how many of us do that?
they work out under guidance of athletic trainers (except JO who does the prison workout) and are likely eating correctly so they can maximize their muscle mass.
so perhaps their size is legit?

you can't just claim that someone's taking HGH or 'roids simply because they are cut.

I presented it as evidence as a possible reason for why they may be taking roids, I never said it is absolute and I also stated he could be naturally cut.

There is nothing to explain his benign growth and superb recovery time other than using 'genetics' as one side of the argument, where as HGH and PED can be used as another argument. If you compare the size of athletes today to in Jordan's day, how many guys were as big back then as they are now? Nonetheless, there are many advances in the field, better machinery and science as far as breaking down muscles and strengthening muscle mass, and it's even noticeable in other sports such as the UFC where guys are regularly tested and are extremely cut.

I'll repeat, being cut or having increased muscle mass is not the sole reason for suspecting LeBron of doing roids, but a major increase in muscle mass can be suspect (see the difference between Bonds/McGwire/Sosa/Conseco in their rookie seasons compared to their prime/mid 30's, it's intense.

i know you aren't accusing. and i think the thought's crossed most of our minds.
you can say the same about Bosh. in his 20s and has acne. so who knows.

things start to add up but you can't assess guilt just because of a few clues. i know you aren't saying that he's guilty.

you also can't compare sports in the 80s to today's sports. hockey players are much bigger today than they were even in the early 90s. in basketball, you used to just have to be tall to be a centre (hello Mark Eaton). Shaq was a BIG and STRONG centre. that changed how centres should be. so now dudes are putting on muscle mass (legally or not) to keep up with the evolving game.

[C Court]

I always felt the year that T-Mac left the Raptors and joined the Magic was the summer he started his process of chemical enhancement. T-Mac's increase in bulk and muscle over that summer was a red flag to me.

[carlosey]

Just by looking at lebron you have to get suspicious. I do think something is up as well.

[Meursault]

ethical / health / career question:

if you were a marginal NCAA talent with mid-2nd round pick potential and just entering your senior year, would you take steroids if it increased your chances of being a late-1st round pick by 50% (and a 5% chance that some moron GM would take you 8th overall) at the expense of: i) being caught with minor repercussions, ii) having a shrinking wang, and iii) possibly dying early / shaving 10-15 years off your life?

5 years ago, i would have said, no way. now that i'm working like a dog and gained some perspective, the opportunity be renowned/infamous for what i do while making millions (if even for a few years) as opposed to being poor and falling into the dustbin of basketball obscurity--seems like too good of an offer to pass up...

[roundhead0]

I don't see anything that proves or goes beyond idle suspicion that Lebron or others are on steroids, HGH, or some other PEDs. What, a superior athlete in his mid-20's with top physical therapists, trainers, and doctors at his disposal has fast recovery time? No way!

However, I'm not completely naive. Considering how size, strength, and endurance is such a factor in this sport and looking at the sheer size of these athletes these days, I would quite frankly be surprised if PEDs were not commonly used at least at some point in their physical development (for example, taking HGH while still growing to increase height). And I'm not sure I would trust the NBA to out many of its players for using drugs, especially the superstars.

[kash3d]

Ball (check his)...