There should be no doubt that EG "won" the Butler for Kwame trade. I think that it would be fair to say that Ernie won the Devin Harris and bad contracts for Antawn Jamison trade as well. The Minnesota trade looks bad in retrospect (because no one could know we'd be rebuilding 8 months later), but even then he got rid of a bunch of bad contracts in the deal (and again, that matters). But I don't understand how one can look at this trade history and see anything other than shrewd moves by Grunfeld.montestewart wrote:JonathanJoseph wrote:But you can't have it both ways. You can't say that Ernie loses trades and then claim that in retrospect Butler-for-Kwame was an even swap. You are admitting a bias.
Since I'm the one that specifically mentioned this swap, I'm guessing this is directed at me, but I have no idea what it means. Butler-for-Kwame was, at the time, arguably an even swap; if Kwame Brown grew into even a fraction of his potential, it would be pretty even in hindsight, but he never did and Butler became pretty good here, so an EG victory. I don't see many clear EG victories beyond that and scoring Blatche, but his clearing for a rebuild may work, and McGee may become an excellent center. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in him as the Wizards GM.JonathanJoseph wrote:Haywood was traded for expiring contracts AND for Mark Cuban to take Butler and Stevenson's salaries off the books. That's $15M in cap space next season. In this economy, getting $15M in salaries off your books when you are trying to rebuild is likely equivalent value to a mid/late 1st rounder. If you don't take cap and cash savings into account as a real, tangible benefit of the trade, then you aren't fairly evaluating the trade. Would you really jeopardize the chance to get rid of $15M for a potential 2nd round pick?
Since there are no exact parallels, anyone can try to analogize with other trades to prove this was a good or bad trade. EG has a history of pulling the trigger too early, sometimes being the first to deal. It looks bad to me, like he's a afraid if he doesn't deal first for pennies on the dollar, he'll be a day late and a dollar short. When everyone knows your hand, a straight face is not a poker face. The Chucky Atkins release to Memphis, the Juan Carlos Navarro draft rights trade to Memphis, and the trade of the protected 1st to Memphis makes me wonder, "When next, Memphis?"
Dallas was already in the playoff mix. With one trade, they're now in the serious contender mix. Adding two quality players, one an expiring and one with a year left on a reasonable contract. Their top two players are aging. This is their window, and they're willing to pay for it. To keep the window open as long as possible, they want to nail down the center position, but who? Having Haywood gives them a leg up in signing him next year. If Butler doesn't work out, he's gone next year (possibly as a valued expiring), but for now, he'll be an active contributor and a fine 3rd or 4th option. Sure they took DS, but they sent back Ross, partially offsetting it. Hindsight will tell a lot about this trade, but my view is, if you buy a championship (or even a good shot at it) it's supposed to cost you something. I think EG was played.JonathanJoseph wrote:(And I continue to believe that Grunfeld knew that getting rid of Caron Butler was addition by subtraction)
The fact is that in the span of a few weeks, Grunfeld turned a disasterous situation into a franchise that has 2 potential franchise big men (yes they are), a potential superstar in Arenas and a ton of cap space and flexibility going forward. While all the current losing hurts, Grunfeld did quite well while playing a bad hand.
You may be right about getting rid of Butler, although I didn't feel a deal was urgent; I certainly thought that moving Jamison was much more important. Patience might have brought more for Butler, and for Haywood. I think more toward the future, and Blatche, McGee, and Arenas could form the core of an exciting team. I'm still worried about who will be assembing the roster, because it remains to be seen if EG has done quite well while playing a bad hand, but it's certain he was playing the hand he dealt himself.
Chucky Atkins was waived because he wanted out. JC Navarro ended up playing 1 average year in Memphis and then going back to Spain, so I can't see how trading him for anything can be seen as a loss for Grunfeld.
Dallas' position is not relevant. Grunfeld badly needed to dump salary, change chemistry and clear cap space and he accomplished that. That was the goal of the movement at the trade deadline and to that end, mission accomplished. The Wizards are in a much, much better place after the trades and I think everyone would/should agree, so I still fail to see the issue.
You can keep suggesting that you THINK there was more out there for Butler/Haywood, but the trade deadline activity (Camby for cash and Ty Thomas for a mid/late 1st and Salmons for expirings) suggest otherwise. The criticism of Grunfeld comes from your opinion that there were better offers but nothing about the trade market suggests that there were. In one sentence, you admit that Grunfeld has the makings of an exciting roster (Arenas, Blatche, McGee) and then say that you aren't confident that he is the right guy to build around those guys.
Look, all I'm saying is that Grunfeld is an easy target for a long list of Wizards woes. But if you look at all the transactions Grunfeld has been behind with the Wizards, he's been pretty good on the whole. He's not some incompetent GM who is getting taken by everyone.
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