Best GM's in the league

[Dr Positivity]

Chris Wallace will be considered top 5 soon

[Dr Positivity]

I'm going to say John Hammond even with the Joe pick. When he came on the Bucks had the Mo/Redd chuckfest, Charlie V. and Yi, Bogut, and Sessions showing flashes after his 20ast game. That is an ass team to build with. They were 30TH in the league defensively and full of chucking offensively. In less than two years he's completley rebuilt the team's culture to emphasize defense and hard nosed effort. What's amazing is that of his original assets, Mo turned into Ridnour, Redd is giving him a 0 for a max contract, they got literally nothing for the Alexander and Yi picks, Charlie V. and Sessions. Last summer people were laughing at how unprecendtly awful the Bucks summer was after getting nothing for all those assets.

Hammond's success truly spits in the face of the "tank for bottom 5 picks and amass as many young players as possiblez!!!" strategy. Instead of worrying about the horses game and making sure the "value was right" for his pieces, he looked at the overall result and whether the deal put the team closer to where it needed to be. 98% of the posters here would've laughed off a Mo for Ridnour deal for being a "rip-off"... and yet IMO that deal was ESSENTIAL for remolding the Bucks

What's even funnier is Tank Nation uses OKC as the model of how to rebuild. But the reason OKC is good is the culture Presti set up as opposed to the band of losers lineups the Clippers, Grizzlies, and Warriors roll out from the draft. They're in the playoffs this year because of their defense and commitment to team play - If they played d like Memphis they'd suck ass. The difference between Presti/Pritchard and Hammond is not as different as you'd think. All those rebuilds relied on creating an environment of winning.

[DraftBoy10]

You're wayyyyy wayyyyyy off base for saying Morey was the mastermind behind Ainge's success. Complete fabrication. Rondo was 100% an Ainge pick, Jefferson was, and West was Mike Zarren's baby. Morey was only one of the many people in Ainge's ear giving him help. From what I hear, the brain doctor Niednagel and Ainge's own scouting trump everything else. I want to hear one thing that Morey was directly responsible for.

Morey brought the statistical analysis that, along with the "brain' guy, helped make everyone of those moves Danny AInge did.

I think people've gone overboard here. Ainge is a star GM because of the Garnett trade - and the idea that acquiring Garnett would be good is not anything Ainge needs a statistician for. It's fine to knock Ainge a bit for having good luck, but whoever persuaded McHale to give up Garnett is the one who deserves the credit, and I can't imagine that that was anyone other than former teammate Ainge.

The hesitation on deifying Morey is not unreasonable - though neither is the statement that Morey looks like one of the best GMs in the league. The moves he's done thus far are impressive, but they aren't anything that set his legend in stone. If the Rockets never become title contenders, then he won't go down as a great GM - simple as that.

That Garnett trade came from what? That Ray Allen trade, according to Garnett. And that Allen trade came from what? Tanking that entire season prior. So when teams say oh Ainge is great, etc. but get mad at other teams for tanking and getting talent, it's kind of contradictory.

Reason I say Morey is the best GM, because from what he's been given in terms of assets, he's gotten the most out of it. If you compare what Morey has done in his short tenure to any GM has done in their short tenure, he's made the most amount of successful moves.

[darth_federer]

You're wayyyyy wayyyyyy off base for saying Morey was the mastermind behind Ainge's success. Complete fabrication. Rondo was 100% an Ainge pick, Jefferson was, and West was Mike Zarren's baby. Morey was only one of the many people in Ainge's ear giving him help. From what I hear, the brain doctor Niednagel and Ainge's own scouting trump everything else. I want to hear one thing that Morey was directly responsible for.

Morey brought the statistical analysis that, along with the "brain' guy, helped make everyone of those moves Danny AInge did.

I think people've gone overboard here. Ainge is a star GM because of the Garnett trade - and the idea that acquiring Garnett would be good is not anything Ainge needs a statistician for. It's fine to knock Ainge a bit for having good luck, but whoever persuaded McHale to give up Garnett is the one who deserves the credit, and I can't imagine that that was anyone other than former teammate Ainge.

The hesitation on deifying Morey is not unreasonable - though neither is the statement that Morey looks like one of the best GMs in the league. The moves he's done thus far are impressive, but they aren't anything that set his legend in stone. If the Rockets never become title contenders, then he won't go down as a great GM - simple as that.

Youre nuts if you think Morey was responsible for all those decisions. Morey was in charge of statistical analysis. Ainge had himself, his scouts and the other executives to work with. I know you have a massive erection for Morey, but lets give credit where its due.

His cheapness might work a few times, but eventually agents are going to get sick of him. You pay fair value for players. You might haggle, but what Morey did to Landry was downright cheap. Agents dont forget things like that.

Morey has made some great moves, but its not like he hasnt made mistakes. When he was assistant Gm, Rudy gay was traded away for Shane Battier. He also traded away Batum for Dorsey.

Nobody bats 1.000. He will come back to earth soon.

[ThreeYearPlan]

Chris Wallace will be considered top 5 soon

The Good:
Z-Bo for Q-Rich
Marc Gasol for his sister
Was able to get rid of Brian Cardinal's, Mike Miller's and Stromile Swift's horrible contracts, Memphis had a top 10 payroll in the league before he made those moves
O.J. Mayo
Screwed the Blazers by signing Darius Miles
Traded Arenas' gun buddy for a 1st round pick
Traded Kyle Lowry for a 1st round pick
Got Ronnie Brewer for nothing
Has gotten rotation players out of all his late round picks like Sam Young, DeMarre Carroll and Darrell Arthur.
Traded a 2nd round pick for Steven Hunter and a 1st round pick
Fired Marc Ivaroni
Hired Lionel Hollins
Got a 2nd round pick for Greg Buckner

The Meh:
Drafting Conley at #4. Decent player, not really too many players that went after him are clearly better.
Signing Jamaal Tinsley.
2nd for Steve Francis and a 2nd

The Bad:
Signing Iverson (Hesley's idea)
Drafting Thabeet (Heisley's idea)
Trading for Chris Mihm

[Banks2Pierce]

I agree that Hammond should be in the same breath as Presti and Morey at this point in time.

Assessing general managers is an interesting thing to do. I will have no problem calling a guy a failure in the first few months if he does some real headscratching moves(kahn). But, you need to give them much, much longer (maybe even 5 years) before you can truly call them a success, depending on the situation. Hammond, Morey, and Presti have looked good in the early stages of clearing contracts and finding talent, but there's another level of being a GM where you actually have your team contending. I remember Paxson/bulls organization getting universally praised 5 years ago, but then they didn't cash in their assets and screwed up some great opportunities(rumors of Kobe, Gasol, etc.)

[Banks2Pierce]

Was Thabeet really 100% Heisley's decision? Wallace had to have some say there. Don't you think Wallace should've stepped in and said Thabeet has the worst offensive game from a prospect I have ever seen or put his foot in the sand. Why is this guy scouting all over the country then? Shouldn't we be calling Heisley the gm then?

And a huge lol at putting the Gasol trade in the Positives column.

[DraftBoy10]

How the hell is trading Kyle Lowry for DeMarre Carrol a "good"?

And I think Heisley is having more of a role as an owner than most owners do in prepping and executing moves. That first Gasol trade was Heisley, and I think the Iverson move, plus Thabeet was, too.

[Banks2Pierce]

How the hell is trading Kyle Lowry for DeMarre Carrol a "good"?

And I think Heisley is having more of a role as an owner than most owners do in prepping and executing moves. That first Gasol trade was Heisley, and I think the Iverson move, plus Thabeet was, too.

Let's just lump them together then to avoid confusion. Memphis' front office is average to bad and it will become more obvious this summer when they lose Rudy Gay to RFA.

[ThreeYearPlan]

Was Thabeet really 100% Heisley's decision? Wallace had to have some say there. Don't you think Wallace should've stepped in and said Thabeet has the worst offensive game from a prospect I have ever seen or put his foot in the sand. Why is this guy scouting all over the country then? Shouldn't we be calling Heisley the gm then?

And a huge lol at putting the Gasol trade in the Positives column.

Wallace and most of the scouting department wanted Harden or Evans but Heisley fell in love with Thabeet during interviews and predraft crap. Heisley also liked Iverson so he thought taking a pg wasn't necessary.
After trading away Marc's sister they were able to cut down from a top 10 payroll losing 55 games to a young exciting team with a low payroll. From that trade they were able to acquire Mayo, Darrell Arthur, Z-Bo, Brewer and Marc Gasol

[AlencoaoFCP]

Ferry HAS got to be up there.

When they needed a scorer, he got Mo Williams for Damon Jones to help LeBron with the load
When the Cavs needs size and strength, he got Shaq for Ben Wallace.
And finaly when people were saying all CLE needed to win the championship was a stretch 4 he got Jamison with a 1 Round Pick!!

That's just amazing.

[Banks2Pierce]

Ferry HAS got to be up there.

When they needed a scorer, he got Mo Williams for Damon Jones to help LeBron with the load
When the Cavs needs size and strength, he got Shaq for Ben Wallace.
And finaly when people were saying all CLE needed to win the championship was a stretch 4 he got Jamison with a 1 Round Pick!!

That's just amazing.

I don't know if i hold Ferry in high regard. He took over in 2005 and the best player he has ever gotten alongside Lebron is a 34 year old Antawn Jamison. And he might be ruining basketball in Cleveland by having Mike Brown as his head coach and causing Bron to bolt in the summer. I would feel completely different about him if he got Amare instead of Jamison.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Cheapness is the most integral quality to getting the most out of of what you are paying. And the "he'll prove his worth in this off-season" is to establish himself as the consensus best GM.

What he's done already is fantastic. The value for the TMac trade, drafting Brooks, Budinger, acquiring Landry, acquiring Artest/Ariza, getting Scola for cash from the Spurs. The only questionable move he's done is the Artest one cause Artest didn't fit, but we got Ariza out of it.

Besides that questionable move, he's done everything right while also managing to keep the owner happy. Any GM you put up against Morey, and you'll see in short tenure he has had, he's done MUCH more. Morey's been GMing for 4-5 years, there's not a single GM in their first 4-5 years that have done as well.

I'd say shrewdness is a better quality. Donald Sterling is cheap.

I'm not sure what the parameters are, but I would say to be the best GM you have to have won the title at least once. I think R.C. Buford has 3 as GM (in 5 years). If Morey can do that, he can be king.

[Harry Palmer]

I think Morey is the guy most likely to be considered ahead of the curve, but similarly he might also be the guy most likely to be eventually 'found out' by others if/when whatever his mechanism is becomes more commonly used, and as such potentially lapped by others with greater skills in other areas, a la Billy Beane.

But, right now, if I'm any other GM, Morey is the guy who, if I'm dealing with or against him, I have the least confidence in thinking I will get more of what I want out of the transaction than he will. He seems to have it screwed down pretty tight, and even the best of the other guys are, imo, operating a little more on intangibles.

[Doctor MJ]

Morey brought the statistical analysis that, along with the "brain' guy, helped make everyone of those moves Danny AInge did.

I think people've gone overboard here. Ainge is a star GM because of the Garnett trade - and the idea that acquiring Garnett would be good is not anything Ainge needs a statistician for. It's fine to knock Ainge a bit for having good luck, but whoever persuaded McHale to give up Garnett is the one who deserves the credit, and I can't imagine that that was anyone other than former teammate Ainge.

The hesitation on deifying Morey is not unreasonable - though neither is the statement that Morey looks like one of the best GMs in the league. The moves he's done thus far are impressive, but they aren't anything that set his legend in stone. If the Rockets never become title contenders, then he won't go down as a great GM - simple as that.

Youre nuts if you think Morey was responsible for all those decisions. Morey was in charge of statistical analysis. Ainge had himself, his scouts and the other executives to work with. I know you have a massive erection for Morey, but lets give credit where its due.

His cheapness might work a few times, but eventually agents are going to get sick of him. You pay fair value for players. You might haggle, but what Morey did to Landry was downright cheap. Agents dont forget things like that.

Morey has made some great moves, but its not like he hasnt made mistakes. When he was assistant Gm, Rudy gay was traded away for Shane Battier. He also traded away Batum for Dorsey.

Nobody bats 1.000. He will come back to earth soon.

Hmm, you need to read more carefully. I didn't say what you think I did.

[Doctor MJ]

Morey brought the statistical analysis that, along with the "brain' guy, helped make everyone of those moves Danny AInge did.

I think people've gone overboard here. Ainge is a star GM because of the Garnett trade - and the idea that acquiring Garnett would be good is not anything Ainge needs a statistician for. It's fine to knock Ainge a bit for having good luck, but whoever persuaded McHale to give up Garnett is the one who deserves the credit, and I can't imagine that that was anyone other than former teammate Ainge.

The hesitation on deifying Morey is not unreasonable - though neither is the statement that Morey looks like one of the best GMs in the league. The moves he's done thus far are impressive, but they aren't anything that set his legend in stone. If the Rockets never become title contenders, then he won't go down as a great GM - simple as that.

That Garnett trade came from what? That Ray Allen trade, according to Garnett. And that Allen trade came from what? Tanking that entire season prior. So when teams say oh Ainge is great, etc. but get mad at other teams for tanking and getting talent, it's kind of contradictory.

Dude, that's maybe the most crazy moving of the goal post I've ever seen. Got nothing to do with what I said.

[DutchManDanFan]

I'm going to say John Hammond even with the Joe pick. When he came on the Bucks had the Mo/Redd chuckfest, Charlie V. and Yi, Bogut, and Sessions showing flashes after his 20ast game. That is an ass team to build with. They were 30TH in the league defensively and full of chucking offensively. In less than two years he's completley rebuilt the team's culture to emphasize defense and hard nosed effort. What's amazing is that of his original assets, Mo turned into Ridnour, Redd is giving him a 0 for a max contract, they got literally nothing for the Alexander and Yi picks, Charlie V. and Sessions. Last summer people were laughing at how unprecendtly awful the Bucks summer was after getting nothing for all those assets.

Hammond's success truly spits in the face of the "tank for bottom 5 picks and amass as many young players as possiblez!!!" strategy. Instead of worrying about the horses game and making sure the "value was right" for his pieces, he looked at the overall result and whether the deal put the team closer to where it needed to be. 98% of the posters here would've laughed off a Mo for Ridnour deal for being a "rip-off"... and yet IMO that deal was ESSENTIAL for remolding the Bucks

You forgot to mention what happened with Detroit since Hammond left...

[sefant77]

Agreed. Morey has done a great job but just never had the luck.

I cant hear that crap with bad luck and the rockets.

That happens when u build your franchise around TWO injury prones.

And not that he didnt learn and traded for Kevin Martin.

How its with Donnie Nelson, just in the past few months turned Josh Howard, Stackhouse, A. Wright, D.George and other scrubs into Butler, Marion, Haywood, Stevenson and a nice draft steal with Beaubois.

[DraftBoy10]

Dude, that's maybe the most crazy moving of the goal post I've ever seen. Got nothing to do with what I said.

Did you not read what you said at first. Ainge is a star GM because. ...

Wait, right there. Ainge isn't a star GM, he was a year away from being fired, same applies to Doc Rivers. He was just lucky(in hindsight) that he didn't get a top 2 pick which he wanted. Great GMs don't just get lucky, they got a skill. Ainge has little skill, and is composed of primarily luck. Skill is something like R.C Buford or Daryl Morey. Constantly getting under the radar players, maximizing their abilities, and finding gems in the draft. Not tanking(don't say SA tanked to get Duncan, the Admiral was injured that year) and cashing in there. That's just an unhealthy environment.

No GM is a great GM if they just tank and garner assets that way. Reason Presti isn't getting love from me, this guy had 4 top 5 picks in the last 3 years. Of course this team should be a playoff team. That's premiere talent. Ainge gave fair value for Garnett, but the value for Allen was simply a cheat, and Allen is what brought in Garnett, not Ainge and McHale's love fest.

[Garbs_7]

I'm going to say John Hammond even with the Joe pick. When he came on the Bucks had the Mo/Redd chuckfest, Charlie V. and Yi, Bogut, and Sessions showing flashes after his 20ast game. That is an ass team to build with. They were 30TH in the league defensively and full of chucking offensively. In less than two years he's completley rebuilt the team's culture to emphasize defense and hard nosed effort. What's amazing is that of his original assets, Mo turned into Ridnour, Redd is giving him a 0 for a max contract, they got literally nothing for the Alexander and Yi picks, Charlie V. and Sessions. Last summer people were laughing at how unprecendtly awful the Bucks summer was after getting nothing for all those assets.

Hammond's success truly spits in the face of the "tank for bottom 5 picks and amass as many young players as possiblez!!!" strategy. Instead of worrying about the horses game and making sure the "value was right" for his pieces, he looked at the overall result and whether the deal put the team closer to where it needed to be. 98% of the posters here would've laughed off a Mo for Ridnour deal for being a "rip-off"... and yet IMO that deal was ESSENTIAL for remolding the Bucks

You forgot to mention what happened with Detroit since Hammond left...

Yep good point, Detroit aren't in a great position at the moment blowing their cap space on CV and Ben Gordon, two very un-Piston players that they wouldn't have signed when Hammond was Assistant GM during the Bad Boys run. I think he deserves some credit for the job he did there considering the positions of the Pistons and Bucks atm.