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Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate?

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Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#1 » by king125 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:21 pm

Stats don't lie:

Evans: pts (20.3) reb (5.0) ast (5.5) Total (30.7) 7 double-doubles, 1 triple-double
Curry: pts (16.0) reb (4.2) ast (5.4) Total (25.6) 6 double-doubles, 1 triple-double
Jennings: pts (15.8) reb (3.5) ast (6.1) Total (25.4) 3 double-doubles

Past Rookie of the Years:

Rose: pts (16.8) reb (3.9) ast (6.3) Total (27.0)
Durant: pts (20.3) reb (4.4) ast (2.4) Total (27.0)
Roy: pts (16.8) reb (4.4) ast (4.0) Total (25.2)
Paul: pts (16.1) reb (5.1) ast (7.8) Total (29.1)
Okefor: pts (15.1) reb (10.9) ast (.9) Total (26.9)
James: pts (20.9) reb (5.9) ast (5.5) Total (32.3)
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#2 » by darkadun » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:23 pm

I don't think so. But I honestly don't get it. Everyone seems to be on the Curry and Collison bandwagon. I like both players and glad they're playing well, but seriously, why is everyone hating on Reke? Don't get it.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#3 » by ICMTM » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:49 pm

If you call the race now then you have to create another story to cover. It's lazy journalism.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#4 » by ACard10 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:18 pm

reke is back to 20/5/5.......... sweeeeeet..... if he keeps that stat line i think it will be very very difficult for anyone to even be considered competition with him for ROY
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#5 » by 10B10 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:35 pm

There's really no debate. And the people who actually matter in voting for ROY are saying the same thing.

Check these kudos out for Reke.

Even in Curry's best month (February):

5.3 rebs 7.3 asts 21.5 pts

Collison in February:

3.9 rebs 8.3 asts 21.6 pts

Tyreke in February:

5.8 rebs 7.0 asts 20.1 pts

I wouldn't call that anywhere close to "head and shoulders" above Tyreke for a month of play. And then when you take into account all the other months of the season where Tyreke was clearly "head and shoulders" above everyone, it becomes clear that there is no debate for ROY barring something really shocking happening.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#6 » by rpa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:18 pm

10B10 wrote:There's really no debate. And the people who actually matter in voting for ROY are saying the same thing.

Check these kudos out for Reke.

Even in Curry's best month (February):

5.3 rebs 7.3 asts 21.5 pts

Collison in February:

3.9 rebs 8.3 asts 21.6 pts

Tyreke in February:

5.8 rebs 7.0 asts 20.1 pts

I wouldn't call that anywhere close to "head and shoulders" above Tyreke for a month of play. And then when you take into account all the other months of the season where Tyreke was clearly "head and shoulders" above everyone, it becomes clear that there is no debate for ROY barring something really shocking happening.


Yeah, people always tend to jump on the hype train of a player who goes from crap to good in a short span of time. It doesn't even matter that Curry's best is barely at Evans' NORMAL level.

A week or 2 ago I posted something on the general board in response to people saying "Curry's dominated the last 2 months". The fact is, Curry's played Evans to roughly equal for the past 2 months but was DESTROYED over the first 2 months of the season.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#7 » by ADoaN17 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:46 am

Tyreke has been doing it the whole year it has to be him
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#8 » by Bruteque » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:39 am

darkadun wrote:I don't think so. But I honestly don't get it. Everyone seems to be on the Curry and Collison bandwagon. I like both players and glad they're playing well, but seriously, why is everyone hating on Reke? Don't get it.


I remember this one game a long time ago in the classic Utah Jazz days. Jeff Hornacek was not having a good stat line that night, but he was doing all the inconspicuous little things which were hard to appreciate for the casual observer. Near the end of the game, he threw up a three that bounced off the back of the iron, off the backboard, off the front of the iron, then settled through the net to put the Jazz up by 7 with a minute to go. One fan a few rows ahead shouted at Hornacek, "LUCKY SHOT!" Without a word, Hornacek grinned at the guy and calmly pointed up at the scoreboard.

He knew where the bottomline was. It was like, "Dude, you can say what you want, but the only thing that matters? My team is going to win."

- - -

Some players come into the league and turn their bottomfeeding franchises completely around. That ends debates. A few points better on a stat line doesn't, not when you are dubious on the one stat that matters...
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#9 » by darkadun » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:22 pm

Good point Bruteque.

I've been thinking about this alot actually, and let me know if my thinking is crazy or off base. Curry is a great player and Evans is a great player, but which player would you rather have? I say Evans, and here is why. (Be patient with my comparisons :P)

I see Curry along the same lines as a player like Steve Nash. Very smart, great shooter and floor leader, and distributes the ball extremely well. Yet, both are smaller players and limited in terms of physicality. Its not a knock on them, its just the way they are built. Nash is unquestionably a tremendous PG, among the greats, and Curry could get there as well. But I don't fear either player, down the stretch that is. Each could certainly make plays down the stretch to win, but I don't fear that they are going elevate their game, or impose their will on the game to win....

.....However, there are certain players you do have fear. Kobe, Lebron, Wade...etc...they take their game to another level at the end of games, and will their respective teams to victory. You might try to stop these players, but they get what shots they want to take, and in many cases win the game. I honestly feel that Evans is in this category of player and will continue to progress as a clutch big time player. Evans has some physical strengths and abilities that Curry does not. Alot of times Evans will use his strength to power into someone and score. Considering teams know what he is going to do and they still can't stop him (aside from Battier), what he does is particularly impressive.

Thats the main difference I see between Curry and Evans, and why the nod has to go to Evans. And again, its not a knock on Curry. I like the kid alot, he has game, but some players have gifts others to do not.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#10 » by king125 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:17 pm

^^^^ agreed
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#11 » by ICMTM » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:25 am

Steve Nash can and does impose his will on a game. It's in the form of taking what the defense gives him. Nash can go for 30 points or 20 assists a night. If the defense wants to limit his assists he can score. Nash has the ability to know when to do what (pass, score, create & dish, etc) whereas everyone knows what Kobe is going to do and you just can't stop it.

As far as taking over a game a la Steve Nash Stephen Curry has a LONG way to go. Tyreke is just going to get into the lane. Everyone knows it. He does it anyway.

In short I agree with what you're saying :)
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#12 » by darkadun » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:50 am

Haha, I know what your saying, I was just using them as examples of different player types.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#13 » by UKF » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:56 am

The debate is a short one, if there is one at all.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#14 » by J~Rush » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:00 am

If Evans can ever learn how to shoot, he'd be on another level than current curry. Right now I think they're both about the same. After watching him brick open jumper after open jumper against the blazers the last week, I think that's the only thing holding him back.


Oh, and Nash is insane in the clutch, to whoever said that above. I don't think you can compare curry to nash and then say he doesn't have the ability to take over.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#15 » by EGame » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:18 am

Yup I agree with J~Rush that Tyreke needs to form a jumper. He is like Bayless in the fact that both can get to the rim (and before I get called out Tyreke is a far better finisher at the rim and far better player right now) and finish, but both are missing a jumpshot to truly be great, especially in Tyreke's case. It is very impressive he is still averaging his numbers without a jumper, I don't know how other defenses have played him, but they should give him the jumpshot until he can knock it down consistently and make the other team pay.

With that said, as a Blazer fan, I think Tyreke is the ROY. Jennings has helped his team to the playoffs, which is impressive, but he does have a little more help, although, Landry is a nice sidekick to Tyreke. Curry is good, but I cannot help but to think his stats are a little inflated under Nellie ball. For me, Tyreke is ROY.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#16 » by deNIEd » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:48 am

king125 wrote:Stats don't lie:

Evans: pts (20.3) reb (5.0) ast (5.5) Total (30.7) 7 double-doubles, 1 triple-double
Curry: pts (16.0) reb (4.2) ast (5.4) Total (25.6) 6 double-doubles, 1 triple-double


Stats today 3/13/2010
Evans, 20.11 pts, 5.03 reb, 5.49 ast, 1.46 stl
46.08% FG, 25.00% 3pt, 74.43% FT
Curry, 17.03 pts, 4.42 reb, 5.71 ast, 1.92 stl
45.81% FG, 41.98% 3pt, 88.24% FT

Curry as of today (with 1 more game than Evans) is
171 points behind Evans
33 rebounds behind Evans
19 assists ahead of Evans
28 steals ahead of Evans

To be honest, I didn't realize it was this close. If Curry is able to average close to 20/5/5 by the end of the season, I don't know how you can't give it to him. Yes Evans has been this consistent all season, but the fact that Curry was able to catch up is unbelievable, and his shooting ability is insane as well.

This is actually going to be a lot closer than any of us thought. And if you took out November for Curry, his stats are actually arguably better than Tyreke's (similar production like 19.5/5/6 but with better 3pt and ft percentages and comparable fg%)
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#17 » by KF10 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:06 am

You have to take into account the pace factor though. The Warriors has the highest pace in the NBA. I mean, yes we have a high pace as well but if you take it in perspective, the Warriors pace is unbelievably high.

Warriors' pace: 102.6
Kings' pace: 96.9

I remember extrapolating the numbers in correlation to ours, the Warriors has a 10-15 extra possession in-game than us.

*I don't remember the actual number but it's still pretty high if I remember correctly*

That's very significant. I don't know how people underrate the total possessions while having a ridiculous high pace.

Pace plays a huge part (in regards to the Warriors in general).
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#18 » by rpa » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:59 am

deNIEd wrote:This is actually going to be a lot closer than any of us thought. And if you took out November for Curry, his stats are actually arguably better than Tyreke's (similar production like 19.5/5/6 but with better 3pt and ft percentages and comparable fg%)


Considering that to get to 20/5/5 Curry would have to average 34.4/3.3/8 over the final 17 games, it actually isn't that close. Plus Evans has higher FG% & PPS as well as lower turnovers.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#19 » by pillwenney » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:39 pm

J~Rush wrote:If Evans can ever learn how to shoot, he'd be on another level than current curry. Right now I think they're both about the same. After watching him brick open jumper after open jumper against the blazers the last week, I think that's the only thing holding him back.


This is basically how I see it. I think they're at about the same level right now--some could certainly argue that Curry is better. But I think Tyreke has much more room to improve, and that's why I think he'll be the better player in the long run.
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Re: Rookie of the Year. Is there any debate? 

Post#20 » by RIPskaterdude » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:23 pm

I doubt that Curry will be able to put up the stats to get to 20-5-5, but if he does, the ROY is all his. If Evans gets 20-5-5 and Curry finishes with 17-4-6, then Evans gets it. No way would the NBA allow Evans (if he gets 20-5-5), to be only the 4th rookie EVER to get that stat line, and not get ROY.
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