Chris Bosh Sign and Trade Ideas

[Son Goku 25]

If we know that bosh won't be returning, is it possible we can send a package of jose,bosh and someone else to the bucks for jennings, bogut.
we would get a legit Center, keep bargs at the pf and have jennings run point guard(it doesn't hurt that derozan and him are pretty good friends).
Just a thought

[Rapsobsessed7]

Please keep the sign and trade deals as realistic as possible because this could turn into a very real situation in a few months.

If some people with a bit more NBA insight could enlighten us, what exactly is a realistic return to expect? Some people on here (mostly on the general board) have been saying that we don't really have leverage in our negotiations for Bosh. I know Minny got Al Jeff and garbage for Garnett in a TRADE and not a sign and trade, so is it realistic to expect much less?

Educate, please.

its more like what Orlando got for T-Mac (Steve Francis, ect) but all ESPN writers have said well get back young assets in a S&T this summer (when they were talking about Bosh trade at the deadline)

again Bulls offered Deng + Noah at the deadline (from their top insider) so many of us laughed at it but now id really do it in the summer. With Deng being out for the season it will be easy to get him included IMO.

[A_wildstabatanything]

First team willing to eat Hedo's contract can have him.

[Ripp]

Can someone give the reasoning for teams way under the cap (Miami) to S&T rather than outright sign him? Thx.

It will be interesting to see what he decides. BTW, I'm not convinced that the obvious teams (Miami, Chicago and NY) are the only possible threats.

I just noticed...there is at least one 2010 cap space teams (Washington) which is not going to be a player this summer. If Bosh hypothetically preferred the 5 year contract to the 6 year S/T and wants to go to a non cap-space team (e.g., Rockets), an intelligent GM like Morey could come up with a pretty interesting deal that has CB end up with the Rockets via a Washington S/T.

Wizards might be willing to do this for some combination of 2011 expirings, cash, and maybe as little as a single pick. The benefit of this sort of deal for the Rockets is that they give up basically nothing, while retaining the rights to valuable assets like Scola, Brooks, Ariza, Battier, etc.

Of course, all of this is highly dependent on Bosh preferring the 5 year deal to the 6 year deal. Who knows what his thought process will be...there are arguments to be made for both deals. If he strongly prefers the guaranteed money of the 6 year deal, then he will probably do a S/T. But he can take a bit of a larger risk while increasing his long-term earnings by doing the 5 year deal.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Hobo Gonzolez]

I want to make a point about 2010 draft picks and sign and trades. We cannot start negotiating a sign and trade until after July 1st, which is after the draft. That means that, for example, trading with Miami for our pick back is not really an option. We would trade for the player Miami drafted, which may not be the player that we would want at the location. Therefore, it loses a lot of it's value.

[J Dilla]

Bosh signed and traded to Washington for:

Cash, Nick Young, Al Thornton, and Andray Blatche

[Dr Octagon]

Bosh S&T to New York for Curry, Gallo, 1st rounder

[David_Robinson]

Kreamy wrote:
We're not going to get better talent back for Bosh so settling for lesser pieces to add to the collection of overpaid misfits we already have would pretty much bury us for the next 3-4 years. I'd much rather we use Bosh to get picks and gain flexibility at this point, That means using him to dump Hedo's contract. I think Houston is one of the few teams that can accommodate that. I suggested this in multiple other threads but something like Bosh and Hedo to Rockets for Ariza, Battier, Jefferies, Hayes, Andersen and the Knicks' picks works. We start rebuilding right with a core of Bargnani, Derozan, Jack etc., a couple of potential lottery picks over the next 2 years, and a ton of cap flexibility going forward. The Rockets add Bosh and Hedo to a core of Yao, Martin, Brooks, Scola, Hill, Budinger and their lottery pick this year.

I like this trade a lot. Houston BY FAR present the best sign an trade scenarios for the Raps and Bosh would like to got to Houston because he could be the number 1 (Yao may never be the same) and would be in back home in Texas. We could get great 1st round picks to rebuild with from Houston (picks from NY trade), and the right wing player in Ariza and nice role players like battier and hayes. I like the trade Kreamy proposed where we also get rid Hedo (I think Houst. would take Hedo to get Bosh) which I think we must do in a bosh sign and trade in order to truly be able to rebuild. The deal works for both sides and gives hope for a proper rebuild and a bright future for the Raptors.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'm guessing the deal will be

Miami gets
Bosh 126 mil S&T

Toronto gets
Toronto 2010 1st
Miami 2010 1st (I could see them squeezing us and making it the 2011 pick, though)
James Jones
Daequon Cook
TPE

Miami gives 2 picks but also clears 4 mil in capspace. We can possibly package our two 14-20 picks into a top 10 one or just pick two players.

This one makes no sense, unless BC wants to run around town with donkey ears and a "kick me" sign on his back. He'd just let Bosh walk.

[Hobo Gonzolez]

I'm guessing the deal will be

Miami gets
Bosh 126 mil S&T

Toronto gets
Toronto 2010 1st
Miami 2010 1st (I could see them squeezing us and making it the 2011 pick, though)
James Jones
Daequon Cook
TPE

Miami gives 2 picks but also clears 4 mil in capspace. We can possibly package our two 14-20 picks into a top 10 one or just pick two players.

This one makes no sense, unless BC wants to run around town with donkey ears and a "kick me" sign on his back. He'd just let Bosh walk.

And doing that gets us where?

[Courtside]

First team willing to eat Hedo's contract can have him.

THIS.

[Dr Octagon]

First team willing to eat Hedo's contract can have him.

THIS.

Bosh decides where he goes.

[Zeno]

I have a feeling San Antonio might make a run at Bosh in an attempt to kind of go full circle with Duncan playing the role of David Robinson and Bosh as a young Duncan.

Bosh and Calderon for Parker and Jefferson.

It can be thought of as in two parts....

Bosh for Parker and Calderon for Jefferson (a massive expiring).

[So Clutch]

I'm guessing the deal will be

Miami gets
Bosh 126 mil S&T

Toronto gets
Toronto 2010 1st
Miami 2010 1st (I could see them squeezing us and making it the 2011 pick, though)
James Jones
Daequon Cook
TPE

Miami gives 2 picks but also clears 4 mil in capspace. We can possibly package our two 14-20 picks into a top 10 one or just pick two players.

This one makes no sense, unless BC wants to run around town with donkey ears and a "kick me" sign on his back. He'd just let Bosh walk.

By letting him walk, you get 0 picks, 0 young players, 0 expiring contracts, not enough cap room to sign anyone useful, etc. Letting him walk is the worst thing that could happen

[joshgc]

I can't believe three years flew that fast. I was ecstatic when bosh signed that contract. Well, this post feels like someone punched my stomach:(. I don't want bosh gone or to imagine any ideas to sign and trade him.

[Condi Rice]

I don't care anymore, just get Bosh's whiny bitch face out of Toronto

[Dr Positivity]

Please keep the sign and trade deals as realistic as possible because this could turn into a very real situation in a few months.

If some people with a bit more NBA insight could enlighten us, what exactly is a realistic return to expect? Some people on here (mostly on the general board) have been saying that we don't really have leverage in our negotiations for Bosh. I know Minny got Al Jeff and garbage for Garnett in a TRADE and not a sign and trade, so is it realistic to expect much less?

Educate, please.

I'm guessing what will happen is this. Bosh will choose his team, probably Miami or Chicago. He will then look to sign the 126 mil there, just like Rashard Lewis had agreed to sign in Orlando but held out to get 6 year/113 mil deal instead of 5 year/90.

There are two camps on what will happen next. Some like djthenotsonics fan think the return will basically be Rashards (TPE/2nd... not what we want), as the situation of them needing us to give him the 6th year is the same. I believe we will hold more of a premium on Bosh's 6th year rights because while Seattle was more than glad to let Orlando overpay even more for Rashard, from a bargaining standpoint we will be in "we're not giving up our Bosh rights unless you give us value" mode. Remember the 6th year was supposed to be how we keep Bosh, so it's unlikely we say "OK, you can have it!" just for a TPE

IMO most likely deals will be

Miami: 2 1sts (at least one 2010 14-20 first, then either the other 14-20 one or Miami's 2011 25+ one), TPE, we take back Jones and Cook

Chicago: James Johnson, TPE + either 14-20 1st, 20+ 2011 1st, or Taj Gibson

NY: David Lee. More value than the other two deals, but NY will be letting him go if they get Bosh anyways, so no difference to them

I'm guessing it's the Miami deal for both 14-20 picks

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Here's the thing with leverage. In a regular trade, we would be in the driver seat to make a trade when we got a good offer. With a s&t it's usualy already established the player is leaving, and this is a way they can get the most money possible, despite leaving the team. Now, if a team is over the cap, so like Lakers, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland (if LeBron stays) this is the only way they can get Bosh. In a regular FA scenario only teams with capspace could get the player, through s&t any team the player wants to go to is in play. With Bosh seeing himself as a max player, it helps as it means extra incentive for him to sign with us no matter where he goes, and he expects wherever he goes to be willing to pay it. Now, the teams that are under the cap, MIA NY CHI Clippers NJ do not need us to sign CB to a max deal, but they do for CB to get the deal he feels he deserves. Teams without capspace have to send contracts back near CB's new deal, teams under the cap don't, they just have to satisfy us, so that we agree to do it. If we don't it would mean less money for CB so it may impact where he wants to sign. If there's only one place CB will consider playing, then no, we would not have a whole lot of leverege to stand between where a player wants to go by playing hardball. It's important to have a good relationship with the player and the players agent. I think with the cap going down, BC figured a lot of teams would not clear the space, but with chi and houston-NY doing their deals, chi has capspace and NY has enough space for two. Still, they will need to give us something.

If CB wants to leave I think the best bet for us is Houston, and don't think Morey doesn't know it. I think Amare will go to Mia with Wade, not sure about LeBron, if CB leaves I think he goes to NY with JJ or Lebron, or to Chicago or houston.

If he goes to NY I think we get Lee and TPE

From chicago Gibson, Johnson, +pick

Houston, we could get anything but Brooks and Yao

Now you throw a 3rd team in there. Things get harder to predict. I love for us to somehow acquire the rights to rubio. Also, if Amare leave PHX you have to wonder if they are going to want to rebuild and part with Nash. BC should try to connect with the agents of players who would ask to be traded here.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

sorry double post

[coldfish]

I'm a Bulls fan and since Raptor fans have taken to giving their "thoughts" on the Bulls board, I thought I would pipe in here.

The information as I know it:
- Any trade discussion is based on Bosh wanting to leave. If he wants to stay, he is a Raptor and that's the right call. IMHO, it would be a mistake for Toronto to dump Bosh.
- No player has ever left their team in this situation. That is to say: An unrestricted free agent who wants a 6 year max contract where his current team wants to retain him. Because of this, no one knows how this is going to play out. The cases close to this were: Joe Johnson (RFA) for 2 protected firsts and Diaw, Kenyon Martin (RFA) for three 1sts, Rashard (UFA) for 2nd round pick.
- Bosh has ultimate control over this and as such, he isn't going to go to a gutted or handicapped team. I read one comment about Bosh for Al Jefferson and Rubio in Minnesota on the trade board. Why would Bosh do that? Its a far worse situation than he has in Toronto.
- The number of PF's available this offseason at less than a 6 year max contract hurts Toronto. Boozer, Amare and Lee will all be available for much less than 6/130. Teams like Miami aren't going to give up the farm for Bosh when they can get Amare for free and a much smaller contract.
- Speaking of David Lee, he is also a UFA. If Toronto wanted to get him in sign and trade, they would have to outbid every other team who may be chasing him. I would not be surprised if he gets close to a max deal for him, which is 5/75. NJ may be desperate.
- No one knows how much leverage the agents have, but they will push Toronto hard for the 6/130 to line their pockets. In the past, agents have threatened teams to get what they want, like what happened with TMac.

Now, this is the guess part. I would love to have Bosh on Chicago as I think he would be a great fit. Outside of Lebron, I have him as #1. I would push for 2 first round picks, protected for Bosh as part of a sign and trade. I wouldn't trade Noah for Bosh as I would prefer Amare or Boozer (at 40 to 60M less than Bosh) with Noah than to have just Bosh. I also wouldn't take Hedo. For a money conscious organization like the Bulls, that would be just another big contract to worry about.

I do think that people here may understate the value of a TPE (traded player exception) of this size. Toronto would have the ability to absorb just about any contract in the NBA. Given the financial state of the NBA, that would be a great playing card to have. The trade for Chicago would become:
Toronto trades
Bosh

Toronto receives
2 1st round picks
Some player making less than $16.5M per year

Team X who is desperate to break up a team or save money trades
Some player making less than $16.5M per year

With the caveat that the second leg of the trade may not occur for up to a year.