The Truth About Chris Bosh

[Boogie!]

i like bosh, but i don't think he can lead a team. i think the things he's been saying lately kind of show that. he seems defeated. he's saying he doesn't know what else he can do. leaders don't say that kind of **** though. no matter what, they always try to take it upon themselves to help the team win. and i don't mean he should be putting up big numbers necessarily. but he should be motivating, supporting, anchoring the defense, making smart plays on offense. that's not to be confused with his idea of putting up 40/20/10. it's not about stats. it's about everything else. leaders shine during adversity. and while bosh is a great player, he isn't a leader. he's made the best of who he is, who he is isn't what this team needs.

[UstaadJi]

When will some of you wake up? The same posters who say David Lee's stats are the product of the Knicks system... well say hello to Chris Bosh and the Toronto Raptors.

The fact that you're comparing David Lee to a PF who has one of the best offensive skill sets from his position in league history is..well...wow.

That being said, even David Lee would benefit greatly from some sort of impact at the 1-3 spot. It just shows how important it is to fill one of those positions with a game changer.

I don't even know where to begin with you...you don't refute any points, and come up with the most ridiculous statements. Are you new to the game? Or just a basketball version of a Leaf fan...

[don_jon]

To UstaadJi,

How do you suppose we get an all star wing player that Bosh would find suitable playing next to him?
Considering Bosh demands are that:
- he remains the franchise player, that means the wing can't be better than him(Probably the same reason he wouldn't most likely join Wade or Lebron).
- he wants to be a scoring power forward that holds onto the ball and doesn't play defense.

1 question, if we got a soon to be all star wing would Bosh become a defensive power forward (a la kg) and play 1b to the wing?

[Enfur]

Wade's winning about the same amount with **** players too. He's not deserving of a max. Dude only gambles on defence for steals and highlight blocks like the mefirst player he is. He doesn't actually play proper perimeter defence. Not deserving of a max, is only going to barely make it into playoffs dude should be able to elevate all his **** teammates and run the league if we're to give him the max.

[darth_federer]

There is a difference between being a leading scorer and a leader. Bosh is a great scorer and is one of the most efficient in the league. He obviously doesnt get into people's faces, but if you get guys like Battier on this team, he ll be really really good. We re going to rue the day when he goes to a veteran team with some leadership and then experiences success.

Kevin Garnett was a guy who got into peoples faces and he didnt make it past the first round of the playoffs for 7 years. He also missed the playoffs a few years as well. Its not just having a leader or a scorer. You need to make a team and we re not one right now.

[McFurious1]

When will some of you wake up? The same posters who say David Lee's stats are the product of the Knicks system... well say hello to Chris Bosh and the Toronto Raptors.

The fact that you're comparing David Lee to a PF who has one of the best offensive skill sets from his position in league history is..well...wow.

David Lee is a PF and he's putting up the same numbers as Bosh (career year) is.

[UstaadJi]

To UstaadJi,

How do you suppose we get an all star wing player that Bosh would find suitable playing next to him?
Considering Bosh demands are that:
- he remains the franchise player, that means the wing can't be better than him(Probably the same reason he wouldn't most likely join Wade or Lebron).
- he wants to be a scoring power forward that holds onto the ball and doesn't play defense.

1 question, if we got a soon to be all star wing would Bosh become a defensive power forward (a la kg) and play 1b to the wing?

a) Even Steven Jackson would have made an impact on this team. Give me a Vince Carter. Basically somebody who can handle the ball, create, get to the line etc.

b) Garnett, Duncan were the best players on their teams..but they wouldn't have won anything without Manu, Parker, Pierce, Allen etc. Garnett and Duncan are still considered franchise guys. The other guys did not over-shadow anything though, but they were just as important.

c) I think once you take some pressure off of Bosh on O, he'd be able to focus more with his D. People have to remember that he has been forced to be more of a scorer than Duncan or KG have ever been. Naturally, he is a better scorer than them as well though...but he hasn't really had the chance to take his focus elsewhere for full stretches because we rely on him so much. Name me another PF that you go down to the end of the game with to CREATE offense. It's insane.

No other PF has that responsibility. Probably not even in league history..

[Schad]

But we have a "franchsie" "MAX" player shouldn't that offset everything?

Of course it doesn't offset everything. A franchise player is not some kind of mythical **** beast that you place on any team, turning it into an instant contender. This is not **** alchemy we're talking about. Bosh is not a radioactive **** spider, biting feckless players on the ass and turning them into a group capable of playing a modicum of defense.

And if you'd like, I can point out several dozen bloody other franchise players worthy of the title who couldn't carry **** teams.

[UstaadJi]

But we have a "franchsie" "MAX" player shouldn't that offset everything?

Of course it doesn't offset everything. A franchise player is not some kind of mythical **** beast that you place on any team, turning it into an instant contender. This is not **** alchemy we're talking about. Bosh is not a radioactive **** spider, biting feckless players on the ass and turning them into a group capable of playing a modicum of defense.

And if you'd like, I can point out several dozen bloody other franchise players worthy of the title who couldn't carry pile-of-**** teams.

Yup. Kobe being one when he didn't have Gasol (but even he had Odom and Bynum)

[darth_federer]

Wade's winning about the same amount with **** players too. He's not deserving of a max. Dude only gambles on defence for steals and highlight blocks like the mefirst player he is. He doesn't actually play proper perimeter defence. Not deserving of a max, is only going to barely make it into playoffs dude should be able to elevate all his **** teammates and run the league if we're to give him the max.

Chris Bosh is top 3 in the league in PER and if you look at any metric (win shares, floor impact e.t.c) hes top 5. Hes also incredibly efficient and gets to the line a lot (although lately he hasnt done it that much). Hes a top 10-15 player in the league and is the best PF on the market. In the all star game, he was the best PF on the floor all game and was on the floor when it counted. On the US team he was dominant defensively and he played ahead of Dwight Howard and was on the floor during the finals at the end of the game.

Obviously hes a very good player and if Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Carmelo are tier 1, hes tier 1.5/2. I dont know how you dont give him the max. Its kind of unfair to compare him to guys like Wade and Lebron because theyre guards and have the ball a lot more. They get to impact the game a lot more too because of that.

[HEKTOR]

To UstaadJi,

How do you suppose we get an all star wing player that Bosh would find suitable playing next to him?
Considering Bosh demands are that:
- he remains the franchise player, that means the wing can't be better than him(Probably the same reason he wouldn't most likely join Wade or Lebron).
- he wants to be a scoring power forward that holds onto the ball and doesn't play defense.

1 question, if we got a soon to be all star wing would Bosh become a defensive power forward (a la kg) and play 1b to the wing?

a) Even Steven Jackson would have made an impact on this team. Give me a Vince Carter. Basically somebody who can handle the ball, create, get to the line etc.

b) Garnett, Duncan were the best players on their teams..but they wouldn't have won anything without Manu, Parker, Pierce, Allen etc. Garnett and Duncan are still considered franchise guys. The other guys did not over-shadow anything though, but they were just as important.

c) I think once you take some pressure off of Bosh on O, he'd be able to focus more with his D. People have to remember that he has been forced to be more of a scorer than Duncan or KG have ever been. Naturally, he is a better scorer than them as well though...but he hasn't really had the chance to take his focus elsewhere for full stretches because we rely on him so much. Name me another PF that you go down to the end of the game with to CREATE offense. It's insane.

No other PF has that responsibility. Probably not even in league history..

We've got a lot of guys who can score on this team. That's not the problem.

[McFurious1]

But we have a "franchsie" "MAX" player shouldn't that offset everything?

Of course it doesn't offset everything. A franchise player is not some kind of mythical **** beast that you place on any team, turning it into an instant contender. This is not **** alchemy we're talking about. Bosh is not a radioactive **** spider, biting feckless players on the ass and turning them into a group capable of playing a modicum of defense.

And if you'd like, I can point out several dozen bloody other franchise players worthy of the title who couldn't carry pile-of-**** teams.

Or maybe the reason is our Max franchise player can't play any defense either.

[darth_federer]

But we have a "franchsie" "MAX" player shouldn't that offset everything?

Of course it doesn't offset everything. A franchise player is not some kind of mythical **** beast that you place on any team, turning it into an instant contender. This is not **** alchemy we're talking about. Bosh is not a radioactive **** spider, biting feckless players on the ass and turning them into a group capable of playing a modicum of defense.

And if you'd like, I can point out several dozen bloody other franchise players worthy of the title who couldn't carry pile-of-**** teams.

Or maybe the reason is our Max franchise player can't play any defense either.

Its kind of tough to play defense when you guards give up drives almost every possession and when your "center" is hopeless at help defense. Hes also expected to rebound the ball a lot because our "center" cant rebound and our guards are pathetic at that too. We re asking him to do too much.

[Ripp]

Guys...I'm watching the game on league pass now. Bosh was not the guy getting lit up. It also was not his fault Deron Williams was beasting, and our shooters couldn't hit their shots. So how exactly does this game reflect poorly on him? I'm pretty confused. Or are we speaking in generalities, for the season..?

[McFurious1]

Wade's winning about the same amount with **** players too. He's not deserving of a max. Dude only gambles on defence for steals and highlight blocks like the mefirst player he is. He doesn't actually play proper perimeter defence. Not deserving of a max, is only going to barely make it into playoffs dude should be able to elevate all his **** teammates and run the league if we're to give him the max.

Its kind of unfair to compare him to guys like Wade and Lebron because theyre guards and have the ball a lot more. They get to impact the game a lot more too because of that.

This is where I disagree Bosh has the ball in his hands more than anyone on this team. Just the impact isn't the same, as a Wade or a James.

[darth_federer]

Wade's winning about the same amount with **** players too. He's not deserving of a max. Dude only gambles on defence for steals and highlight blocks like the mefirst player he is. He doesn't actually play proper perimeter defence. Not deserving of a max, is only going to barely make it into playoffs dude should be able to elevate all his **** teammates and run the league if we're to give him the max.

Its kind of unfair to compare him to guys like Wade and Lebron because theyre guards and have the ball a lot more. They get to impact the game a lot more too because of that.

This is where I disagree Bosh has the ball in his hands more than anyone on this team. Just the impact isn't the same.

Lebron and Wade dribble the ball up the court a lot and can initiate things because of that. Its easier for them to score for that reason too. Getting the ball in the post a lot is not the same thing as dominating the ball like Wade and Lebron do.

[Schad]

Or maybe the reason is our Max franchise player can't play any defense either.

Here's where I usually point to the copious statistical measures that show that Bosh is the only starter who isn't a pathetic pile of garbage defensively, but you'll sidestep them and argue by fiat...we've had this argument myriad times, and it always goes the same way. So instead, I'm going to make more productive use of my time, and go watch Lost.

[Jmatt12]

How about we vent on your horrible thread?

Definitley. Like I said David Lee gets flak for having big numbers only b/c he is on a bad team with a offensive minded coach but Bosh (Bosh is still 100x better than Lee) is just a good player on a horrible team as well. The guy is not a Franchise player. He wants to be but he doesn't want the responsibility and the work . If we resign Bosh next year we still have the same marginal pieces that we have this year. He doesn't have the intangibles (that Kobe, Lebron and even Dwade have) to lead a team.

Okay. The fact that you're comparing a power forward to 2's and 3's is very disturbing. It also shows how relatively fresh you are to the NBA. Please educated yourself before having such a strong opinion about "intangibles"

Superstar 2's and 3's determine the outcome of games because they have the ball in their hands and can do whatever they want on the court with or without it. A PF should never be asked to do this, Duncan has never..and KG has never. Sure they're the horses for their teams..but where would Duncan be without Parker or Manu, or KG without Pierce and Allen? What "intangibles" would these guys be missing if they didn't have their respective help from the wing and point positions?

Now name me wing players even close to that caliber that Bosh has had to work with. Hell, name me some pg/wing players that are even close to what KG had to work with in Minny with Spree and Cassell. I'll wait.

Do you notice that people who know a lot about basketball never compare Duncan to Kobe or KG to Wade? You're comparing wings to bigs and that's just ridiculous.

What are you basing my experience in watching NBA games on. The number of my posts ?

I've been watching for nearly 20 years you idiot. I've probably gone to more NBA games (Vancouver, New York, TO, Seatle) than most posters.

I wasn't comparing Bosh to Lebron and Dwade and Lebron and Kobe based on how effective they are in their respective position. I'm criticizing Bosh based on the fact that he and many others considers himself a franchise player as well as a max player. Are you F*cking kidding me. That is what I have a problem with. I'm comparing franchise player to franchise player (regardless of position). Bosh is a Coward before a franchise (max) player.

Dwight Howard, KG, Shaq (pre laker era), David Robinson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, Dirk,Charles Barkley, Kevin Mchale, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning (first run with the heat), and Shawn Kemp (sonics era) are all proven big men who were cornerstone (franchise) pieces during their time. These players were untouchable on their team because they made their teams better. They were go to players in crunch time . As bad as Shawn Kemp's career ended, during his prime I never heard him say "there nothing I can do about my players", " I can't light the fire in my team mates" " what do you want me to do score 40 points thats not my game". Shawn Kemp did more in his first 8 years for Seatle as a Sonic than Bosh has done for Toronto and for that matter his entire career (7 years). Bosh hasn't even come close to taking this team to the next level.

What has Bosh done to take this team to the next level. Got bigger ? Got a new Tattoo? Grew dreads? Showed up to the first half of the season ? made a couple of youtube videos ? hit a game winner over Al Horfords head ? Who cares. He is not a franchise player. He is just a glorified player on a horrible team. This guy is nowhere near the calibre of KG (and the rest of the guys I mentioned). When this team hit bottom his attitude is "I can only help myself"

[McFurious1]

Guys...I'm watching the game on league pass now. Bosh was not the guy getting lit up. It also was not his fault Deron Williams was beasting, and our shooters couldn't hit their shots. So how exactly does this game reflect poorly on him? I'm pretty confused. Or are we speaking in generalities, for the season..?

[Crazy-Canuck]

This is a guards league.

Impact 2/3's dont come cheap, I doubt there is anyone (except Bosh) on this team that could land us an impact wing.

Hedo is an impact wing, but has been brutal this year. He made a pretty good impact with the Magic. Jose was a fringe AS pg a few years ago, but he also dropped considerably since his extension.
(Raptors + Euro players + big contract = fail)

DD, is a rookie that hasnt shown the kind of upside we were hoping for. He'll still be a solid starter in this league for years though.

Its true that Bosh needs help, but he also needs to help himself. He needs to stop worrying about stats and bear down defensively. We all know he has the ability to impact both ends of the floor.

He is still a young pf who is top 3 in his position.