It is time to build around Bargnani!

FirstInkTDot · Post #81 » by **FirstInkTDot** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:50 am

LittleOzzy wrote:Bosh can't even have one bad game...

Bandwagoners...

Tha Cynic · Post #82 » by **Tha Cynic** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:33 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:
LSG2009 wrote:bargnani is like gasol. no thank you. if its true, then i will watch another team.

Gasol led the Grizzlies to 50Ws and a playoff appearance....Bargnani is an airhead who will be lucky to lead his team to a better record then the Nets this season.

Yea, he "led" his team to a 50 win season while playing 30 minutes a game and averaging around the same thing Bargnani is averaging now. That team wasn't anything about Gasol; it was about a balanced attack where the bench played as many minutes as the starters. Not surprisingly, that team imploded.

Post #83 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:00 pm

seanbig wrote:um as much as I like BArgs, his play (which was awful) during Bosh's absense solidifies the fact that he isn't a piece you build around.

What justifies you to make this conclusion? There has been rarely any times where Triano had run offensive plays for Bargnani consistently. You have Bargnani who's automatic from anywhere at mid-range as shown tonight once again. If Bargnani has shown he can hit his shots consistently from 10-15 ft. (52.6 FG%), you look to run some screens for him, but Triano doesn't. Most of his shots come off from broken plays.

-His Clutch play in shooting fadeaway over Melo instead of taking it strong is a problem and probably the reason we didn't win (don't kid yourself, Bosh doesn't win the raptors that many games)

Bargnani did a great job attacking the basket and drawing the foul actually. Not to mention, he was consistently positioned in the low-block where he attracted the double/help and did an amazing job passing the ball out of doubles which led to ball movement.

-usually it is a Bargs 3 or dagger shot that stabilizes our team in the 4th and he did not show up

Really eh? Did you bother watching the game? Because Bargnani rarely had any plays ran for him down the stretch. All the Raptors did was ran isolation plays for Bosh.

Post #84 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:08 pm

strangespot wrote:As much as I would like to, but no, Bargs is not a franchise player. His numbers aside, he is just not the type of guy who I would see being the leader.

A 2nd option yes... and as I was watching the game y'day at some point A.Wright had taken like 4-5 shots and missing all of them in the 1st Q while Bargs had only 1 ?? There I thought wow, even a guy that comes into the starting line-up for an injured player takes more shots than Bargs... something wrong here.

Bargnani won't become a vocal leader, but that has nothing to prevent him from becoming a number one option. You look at Carmelo, he's the first option, but he's not even a vocal leader. Billups does much of that for the Nuggets. And Wright taking more shots than Bargnani has to do with role not being defined.

dellcurryisgod · Post #85 » by **dellcurryisgod** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:10 pm

Ppl..... Bosh and Bargnani are incredibly similar. They both need a strong centre around them to be effective. Bosh > Bargs... yes... HOWEVER if Bosh leaves and we can get a good strong rebounding centre then bargs can easily replace the job Bosh does. In an ideal world i would like to see Bargs leave, Bosh stay and we get a good centre for Bosh.
However with Bosh all but gone I am not too worried if we can get a centre to bang down low and intimidate ppl.
Both CB4 and Bargs need that type of teammate to light a fire under their ass.

just my 2 cents

Stretch82 · Post #86 » by **Stretch82** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Bargnani is a great talent, but as inconsistent as most of our guys. Your franchise guy has to deliver in every game and ideally is a leader. That's not Bargs ...

dagger · Post #87 » by **dagger** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:59 pm

Again, the notion of having to "build around" one player is how we keep getting into this mess. "Build around Vince", "Build around Bosh". Hey, it works with Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Dwight, Kobe because these are very special talents,

But as Undefeated says, there are also teams with multiple options - Denver, where Billups is arguably as important as Melo for different reasons, and where both have different roles. Or Dallas, where Kidd and Dirk are both very important for different reasons, and Jason Terry has a very deliberate role as well.

We shouldn't build "around Bargnani". We should be like Dallas, and look for the right pieces that work together. Bargnani can be one of them. I think DeRozan in a year or two will be another. The two of them will pack a lot of offensive punch. Get a point guard with a little more speed to break defences down.

But unless we draft a player like John Wall, don't build around anyone. Not even Chris Bosh. We should actually be bigging up a second and third options and using them more often (that's how you make sure Antoine Wright doesn't go all Jordan on you). And it would help Chris be more effective if he didn't have to try to be what he can't be.

dagger · Post #88 » by **dagger** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:01 pm

Stretch82 wrote:Bargnani is a great talent, but as inconsistent as most of our guys. Your franchise guy has to deliver in every game and ideally is a leader. That's not Bargs ...

I agree up to a point, but he's still young, and as we saw last night, there is a lot of emotion there he doesn't let out, that may be starting to come out. Your leader, by the way, doesn't have to be your top scorer. Jarrett Jack is probably a better leader than Chris Bosh. Jason Kidd is probably a better leader than Dirk, Billups definitely is the leader in Denver, not Carmelo.

KG1585 · Post #89 » by **KG1585** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:14 pm

The good thing about building around Bargs is that the Raps would be in the lottery a lot, and will have a chance to pick up really good players in the draft.

Local_NG_Idiot · Post #90 » by **Local_NG_Idiot** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:42 pm

Bargs in 4 years has yet to develop the tools to be a 1st option. He may be a trial by fire type player where he needs to develop those types of skills on the court in order to be effective in that type of role.

The problem becomes, as we've seen in past years he responds negatively to criticism and being a #1 option in TO you have to have thick skin (as seen by what Carter and now Bosh have to endure day in and day out as their games get scrutinized and disected).

The question becomes, can Bargs withstand that type of barage on a daily basis, perform at even a higher level than he is now and figure out how to get to the next level. From what I've seen of him, I can't say that he'll succeed in that elevated role.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #91 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:47 pm

I really hope the bulb clicked in Bargs head yesterday and he continues to play like he did yesterday. He came to work last night and even demanded the ball, too bad he didnt get it.

Macho · Post #92 » by **Macho** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:47 pm

Bargs won't have another double double this season, I can guarantee that.

Kakapato · Post #93 » by **Kakapato** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:49 pm

dagger wrote:Again, the notion of having to "build around" one player is how we keep getting into this mess. "Build around Vince", "Build around Bosh". Hey, it works with Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Dwight, Kobe because these are very special talents,

But as Undefeated says, there are also teams with multiple options - Denver, where Billups is arguably as important as Melo for different reasons, and where both have different roles. Or Dallas, where Kidd and Dirk are both very important for different reasons, and Jason Terry has a very deliberate role as well.

We shouldn't build "around Bargnani". We should be like Dallas, and look for the right pieces that work together. Bargnani can be one of them. I think DeRozan in a year or two will be another. The two of them will pack a lot of offensive punch. Get a point guard with a little more speed to break defences down.

But unless we draft a player like John Wall, don't build around anyone. Not even Chris Bosh. We should actually be bigging up a second and third options and using them more often (that's how you make sure Antoine Wright doesn't go all Jordan on you). And it would help Chris be more effective if he didn't have to try to be what he can't be.

Amen.

Fast_Feets · Post #94 » by **Fast_Feets** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:01 pm

Do people still not realize. you do not build around a Power forward!!!

You build around spectacular SG and SF!

J-Roc · Post #95 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:03 pm

Fast_Feets wrote:Do people still not realize. you do not build around a Power forward!!!

You build around spectacular SG and SF!

If the player is spectacular, it doesn't matter what position they play. We just don't have any spectacular players right now.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #96 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:19 pm

Fast_Feets wrote:Do people still not realize. you do not build around a Power forward!!!

You build around spectacular SG and SF!

You can if he plays both ends of the floor.

TheGameWinner · Post #97 » by **TheGameWinner** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:53 pm

LittleOzzy wrote:Bosh can't even have one bad game...

didn't you start a PG game "chris 'butterfingers' bosh" couldn't you have just said, Nuggets got lucky that Billups came in for Iverson?

J-Roc · Post #98 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:54 pm

TheGameWinner wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:Bosh can't even have one bad game...

didn't you start a PG game "chris 'butterfingers' bosh" couldn't you have just said, Nuggets got lucky that Billups came in for Iverson?

Yeah Ozzy I noticed that, too.

Post #99 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:07 pm

Local_NG_Idiot wrote:Bargs in 4 years has yet to develop the tools to be a 1st option. He may be a trial by fire type player where he needs to develop those types of skills on the court in order to be effective in that type of role.

And what tools is that Bargnani hasn't developed yet? Bargnani is automatic from anywhere from the mid-range area (number one option has to find a sweet spot on the floor), does a great job of attracting doubles and passing the ball out very well by finding an open teammate when he isn't even a number option yet and he always steps up when the Raptors are in need of a basket such as his drive on Nene last night with an and-one. As I've said, until Triano starts running some set plays for Bargnani, that's when he'll give us a true indication whether or not he can become one. But with I've seen so far when Bosh stinks up the joint, Bargnani does a great job stepping up and carrying the Raptors.

Cool-Hand-Luke · Post #100 » by **Cool-Hand-Luke** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:18 pm

If we built around Bargnani I would vomit. He is way too inconsistent and does not have mental toughness to be the main option. His weaknesses would be the demise of this franchise as we know it. He's shown flashes of brilliance and has some strong games here and there. If Bosh left leaving Bargs as our centre piece it would mean teams would be doubling him and putting their best and most mobile big on him. He does not do well when challenged and cannot play through slumps. This is not a good idea.